I Don't Know How To Explain To You That You Should Care About Other People

"I’m perfectly content to pay taxes that go toward public schools, even though I’m childless and intend to stay that way, because all children deserve a quality, free education. If this seems unfair or unreasonable to you, we are never going to see eye to eye.

A quick google search tells me the national average for in-state tuition at a public 4-year university is just over $26k/year or about $104k for a degree. That is absolutely expensive.

Also, why are you assuming everyone with large amounts of debt got a stupid degree? This is a right wing talking point where they pretend everybody who has student debt got some ridiculous degree like the one in your example.

It’s not blaming others, it’s accepting that we have a fucked up system and people shouldn’t be punished for trying to get an education. When the cost of tuition is multiple times more expensive than other OECD countries (some of these countries are tuition free) then we should acknowledge that there is a major issue with the way our system is set up and not blame people for doing what they were taught would make them more money.

Higher education in the US is like out healthcare and childcare systems where people are spending an asinine amount for things that other countries get for much cheaper or even free.

I Don't Know How To Explain To You That You Should Care About Other People

"I’m perfectly content to pay taxes that go toward public schools, even though I’m childless and intend to stay that way, because all children deserve a quality, free education. If this seems unfair or unreasonable to you, we are never going to see eye to eye.

Strawman.  That isn't the argument.  The argument is debt forgiveness doesn't fix the actual problem and only encourages people to NOT think more about college and their degree.  

I guess when you've lost an argument you make up what others are saying?

Debt forgiveness isn't the solution.

It's also a straw man to argue that debt forgiveness is being pushed as "the solution". 

We need to help people where they are at right now, and we need to work to reduce the costs of education. We need to do both. 

Which is frankly a bigger issue. 50 years ago, your "stupid" degree was easily afforded by a minimum wage. Now we get 17 year olds signing up for stupid degrees because everyone has made it an expectation that they're going to get one. 

Except now they probably need to be making like $30 an hour to afford paying for it, as well as the rest of their living expenses. 

>guess when you've lost an argument you make up what others are saying?

I never said you said that. 

Disappointed here.  I paid my student loans and now via being a high income earner I get to pay other people's student loans.  Seems like BS to me.  But I'm still voting Biden because trump is just a hard pass for the sake of democracy.

Take a loan, pay the loan.  I don't believe in forgiving debts because people took out a bunch of money and got a stupid degree.  

Nah.  State schools aren't expensive.  8 to 10k a year.  The "fancy" private schools are the problem along with the absurd room/board.  If someone goes to a grossly overpriced private school and gets a stupid degree...   that was their choice, not my problem.  

I got my chemistry degrees from state schools...  60k for a MS.  Easily paid back.  

People need to take responsibility for their choices, not blame others.  I have a friend who went to Carnegie and got a degree in classical guitar for 150k....  his problem, not mine.

What about teachers who have been working for years in public service? Social workers? People with disabilities? People who got a degree in a high earning field but have been unable to find a job? Or people who had to leave their job to serve as a primary caretaker?

The whole "stupid degree" argument has always been bad, because there are millions of people with normal ass degrees, doing work that is incredibly important to the functioning of our society who have a ton of student loan debt. America needs people with a college education. As such, it should be the taxpayer's responsibility to help.

I also just want to say, your characterization of student loan debt is not matched by reality. You seem to believe that the problem with student loans is that people go to some fancy school and take out a ton of money, but the vast, vast majority of student loan debt is under $40k. Further, the people who are defaulting on their loans aren't the ones with $150k of debt, they are the ones with $5k of debt. The default rate increases as the debt size gets smaller. These are largely normal people, who made normal decisions as literal children, and are not stuck in a difficult situation, often decades later. 

The system is thoroughly fucked. 

Don't look now but you tripped.  In the first paragraph people owe a ton of money and in the second they don't owe much....  which is it?  People have a ton of debt or owe very little?

Feel free to sponsor someone and pay off their debt, no one is stopping you.  

iF u cARe So muCH tHeN Y dOn'T u PaY 4 thERE CoLLegE ouT Of ur OWN pOckET?! LeaVe mE OuT oF It!!!

It absolutely is not the tax payer responsibility to pay off someone's debt.  That is nonsense.  It is the borrower's responsibility.  I know it sounds crazy but the person who takes the money owes it back.

And if you don't think stupid degrees are a problem, if haven't spent much time at a university.

And these people did not make choices as "literal" children.  College kids are 18 years old. Which LITERALLY makes them adults.  

Quick question....  I have two kids, both with a 529a account...  I should cash that bad boy out because you and everyone here should pay their college, correct?

And the system isn't fucked.  In state public schools are 10k a year....  millions and millions of people navigate the university system just fine.  It isn't that hard to figure out.  

Don't look now but you tripped.  In the first paragraph people owe a ton of money and in the second they don't owe much....  which is it?  People have a ton of debt or owe very little?

Feel free to sponsor someone and pay off their debt, no one is stopping you.  

It absolutely is not the tax payer responsibility to pay off someone's debt.  That is nonsense.  It is the borrower's responsibility.  I know it sounds crazy but the person who takes the money owes it back.

And if you don't think stupid degrees are a problem, if haven't spent much time at a university.

And these people did not make choices as "literal" children.  College kids are 18 years old. Which LITERALLY makes them adults.  

Quick question....  I have two kids, both with a 529a account...  I should cash that bad boy out because you and everyone here should pay their college, correct?

And the system isn't fucked.  In state public schools are 10k a year....  millions and millions of people navigate the university system just fine.  It isn't that hard to figure out.  

No they didn't. They're talking about different groups of people.

The first instance is talking about a minority of people, and the second instance is talking about the majority of people. I'm not sure why this kind of qualifier trips people up, but it's interesting to me. 

Plenty of people with excessive debt are people that are doctors, lawyers who can probably afford to eventually pay off their debt.

The average person has about $40,000 in debt, therefore for every person that has $150,000 in debt, there's basically multiple people with $20,000 in debt.

Ah, there it is.

It's wonderful that people are able to do such a thing, but societal level problems aren't going to get solved by this kind of thinking.

This is a circular argument. 

For example, rights and freedoms aren't written by God. We as a society decide what kind of rights and freedoms we want to protect. 

And similarly society decides who is responsible for things. In the US for example, we decide that people are responsible to be jurors. 

I would happily live in a society that wants to help out other people's debt.

And a lot of them were 17 when they started.

Well I'd wait for the system to get fixed.

But yeah, I'd love to pay more taxes to ensure your kids are able to get paid through college. Because I think these things benefit society as a whole. And because I think the best way to protect my privilege is by insuring other people get the same privileges that I had access to. 

$10k, minimum wage is $15k. Those expenses are important for other things like living expenses. 

That's not much if you are able to get a good job, and you live in an area where there's a low cost of living. 

But it's not so great, even if you do get a good job, and you live in an area where cost of living is expensive. 

Here's the thing, you can make great decisions and still end up broke. You get a great job, you die of cancer, and your kids might end up struggling to keep the house they grew up in.