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Forums - Nintendo - How Will be Switch 2 Performance Wise?

 

Switch 2 is out! How you classify?

Terribly outdated! 3 4.76%
 
Outdated 1 1.59%
 
Slightly outdated 16 25.40%
 
On point 35 55.56%
 
High tech! 7 11.11%
 
A mixed bag 1 1.59%
 
Total:63
Chrkeller said:

Skyrim is a ps3 game from 2011. How would there be a S2 CPU problem?

I read an article on Euro that people are asking for refunds on Xeno X. Any idea what is going on there? People are claiming the picture quality is bad, but i don't see how that is possible.

Probably the comment was just based on the PS4 version running at 30fps and both systems (S2) have comparable CPUs. One thing to consider is that 30fps was just the default console experience back then, so there are probably a lot of PS4 games with a lot of head room above 30fps but developers didn't care to optimise around a potential 60mode. It is as you say a PS3/360 game after all.

Last edited by Otter - 11 hours ago

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Otter said:
Chrkeller said:

Skyrim is a ps3 game from 2011. How would there be a S2 CPU problem?

I read an article on Euro that people are asking for refunds on Xeno X. Any idea what is going on there? People are claiming the picture quality is bad, but i don't see how that is possible.

Probably the comment was just based on the PS4 version running at 30fps and both systems (S2) have comparable CPUs. One thing to consider is that 30fps was just then default console experience back the, so there are probably a lot of PS4 games with a lot of head room above 30fps but developers didn't care to optimise around a potential 60mode. It is as you say a PS3/360 game after all.

Fair, I think.  Though I would never criticize hardware based on Bethesda games, given they are God awful at optimization.  Oblivion Remake ran like crap on my 4090, i7 13th generation CPU and 32 gb of ram.  Hardware is rarely the problem with Elder Scrolls.   



“Consoles are great… if you like paying extra for features PCs had in 2005.”
Chrkeller said:

Skyrim is a ps3 game from 2011. How would there be a S2 CPU problem?

I read an article on Euro that people are asking for refunds on Xeno X. Any idea what is going on there? People are claiming the picture quality is bad, but i don't see how that is possible.

To be fair, the SE/AE version of Skyrim is pretty different from the original version behind the scenes (deferred vs. forward rendered; 64-bit compiled vs. 32-bit, etc.) PS4 Pro didn't even run the game at 60fps, and even with a 60fps mod that people made it hovers around 40fps on average when outdoors. 

As for Xeno X it is mostly based on an unverified reddit post and probably the fact that Nintendo is pretty good about refunding unhappy purchases in the first week of release. Most of what people are seeing is probably a combination of noticing things that weren't noticeable at the lower resolution and a rough SMAA-like solution. People aren't used to games not having temporal AA, in my opinion, and are surprised to see older image artifacts that we don't see usually anymore. The game definitely is sharper than the Switch 1 version and the fact it performs great (at mostly 60fps) is a night and day difference. 

Many individuals seemed to have had unrealistic expectations that Nintendo would add DLSS or run the game at native-4k, if not. DLSS likely wasn't on the table because it needs extensive motion vector data to work, and games in 2015 in so much as they did have motion vectors it was mostly for better motion blur and other similar effects. There were some exceptions, like the Crysis games and the Witcher 3, but velocity buffers/motion vectors weren't in practically every title like they are today. 4k isn't on the table, because not even entry-level desktop RTX cards (RTX 3050, RTX 2060, etc) can run the game at native 4k and they're about 2.5-3 times more powerful than the T239 in the Switch 2. Sure there is emulation overhead, but not that much. 



sc94597 said:
Chrkeller said:

Skyrim is a ps3 game from 2011. How would there be a S2 CPU problem?

I read an article on Euro that people are asking for refunds on Xeno X. Any idea what is going on there? People are claiming the picture quality is bad, but i don't see how that is possible.

To be fair, the SE/AE version of Skyrim is pretty different from the original version behind the scenes (deferred vs. forward rendered; 64-bit compiled vs. 32-bit, etc.) PS4 Pro didn't even run the game at 60fps, and even with a 60fps mod that people made it hovers around 40fps on average when outdoors. 

As for Xeno X it is mostly based on an unverified reddit post and probably the fact that Nintendo is pretty good about refunding unhappy purchases in the first week of release. Most of what people are seeing is probably a combination of noticing things that weren't noticeable at the lower resolution and a rough SMAA-like solution. People aren't used to games not having temporal AA, in my opinion, and are surprised to see older image artifacts that we don't see usually anymore. The game definitely is sharper than the Switch 1 version and the fact it performs great (at mostly 60fps) is a night and day difference. 

Many individuals seemed to have had unrealistic expectations that Nintendo would add DLSS or run the game at native-4k, if not. DLSS likely wasn't on the table because it needs extensive motion vector data to work, and games in 2015 in so much as they did have motion vectors it was mostly for better motion blur and other similar effects. There were some exceptions, like the Crysis games and the Witcher 3, but velocity buffers/motion vectors weren't in practically every title like they are today. 4k isn't on the table, because not even entry-level desktop RTX cards (RTX 3050, RTX 2060, etc) can run the game at native 4k and they're about 2.5-3 times more powerful than the T239 in the Switch 2. Sure there is emulation overhead, but not that much. 

100% agreed.  I remember arguing with folks, because they thought DLSS would create an image that looked like 4k, which was never going to happen.  What we see happening is the S2 renders well below 1080p and we are getting a 1080p like image.  I don't think people realize how much power is required to run native 4k, especially with high end RT/path.  Hell my 4090 runs 4k Path tracing Indiana at like 30-35 fps....  I don't know how many times more powerful a 4090 is over a T239, but it is a lot.  

Overall, the S2 does what it needs to do.  Games are 1080p in image quality, hitting 60 fps in some cases, locked at 30 fps in others.  For a handheld, that is quite powerful.  



“Consoles are great… if you like paying extra for features PCs had in 2005.”
sc94597 said:
Chrkeller said:

Skyrim is a ps3 game from 2011. How would there be a S2 CPU problem?

I read an article on Euro that people are asking for refunds on Xeno X. Any idea what is going on there? People are claiming the picture quality is bad, but i don't see how that is possible.

To be fair, the SE/AE version of Skyrim is pretty different from the original version behind the scenes (deferred vs. forward rendered; 64-bit compiled vs. 32-bit, etc.) PS4 Pro didn't even run the game at 60fps, and even with a 60fps mod that people made it hovers around 40fps on average when outdoors. 

What resolution did the mod run at?

Because Skyrim is native 4k on PS4 Pro which is naturally going to put 60fps out of question. 



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Chrkeller said:

Overall, the S2 does what it needs to do.  Games are 1080p in image quality, hitting 60 fps in some cases, locked at 30 fps in others.  For a handheld, that is quite powerful.  

Yeah when targeting >30fps image quality does seem 1080p-like*, and when targeting 30fps it usually is somewhere between 1080p-like and 1440p-like (when docked.) The best results we've seen so far have been when the internal resolution essentially hits native 1080p and the game is basically 1080p DLAA at that point. Cyberpunk 2077 does this often (although with the DRS it goes pretty low internally too), Final Fantasy VII Remake hits this constantly, and a few other titles hit these peaks for long periods of time as well. 1080p DLAA feels a lot like 1440p heuristic-based TAA, in terms of motion clarity/sharpness, in my opinion. So a lot of Switch 2 games that are also on PS4 Pro look very similar to the Pro titles in that Pro mainly used TAA and check-boarding from higher inputs, and Switch 2 uses a much superior DLSS from lower inputs, both ending up in about the same place in the end. Similar with Switch 2 handheld and base PS4, albeit with the extra caveat that the smaller screen allows you to forgive even more. 

*1080p using a heuristic-based TAA as the typical game setting.



Otter said:
sc94597 said:

To be fair, the SE/AE version of Skyrim is pretty different from the original version behind the scenes (deferred vs. forward rendered; 64-bit compiled vs. 32-bit, etc.) PS4 Pro didn't even run the game at 60fps, and even with a 60fps mod that people made it hovers around 40fps on average when outdoors. 

What resolution did the mod run at?

Because Skyrim is native 4k on PS4 Pro which is naturally going to put 60fps out of question. 

You can force 1080p using another mod. Still doesn't reach a consistent 60fps (fluctuates around 45-60fps rather than the 28-60 fps at 4k.) 

Edit: If I recall correctly, Xbox One X also has mods like this with similar results, and that version was implemented with dynamic resolution scaling. 



Interesting interview on FF7 Remake. Nothing we didn't really already know , but nice to see confirmation. 

https://automaton-media.com/en/interviews/we-ask-final-fantasy-vii-remake-director-naoki-hamaguchi-about-the-switch-2-versions-hair-problem-why-does-it-happen-and-can-it-be-avoided/ 

"It feels like a great deal of effort went into optimizing FFVII Remake for each platform. Do you personally feel that bringing it to the Nintendo Switch 2 and Xbox Series X|S required a lot of work? 

Naoki Hamaguchi (hereafter Hamaguchi): 
Yes. I sometimes see comments suggesting that since FFVII Remake originally released on the PS4, porting it should have been simple. However, it’s not actually a port of the PS4 version. After the PS4 release, we enhanced the game’s assets to create Intergrade for PS5, and now, we ported that Intergrade version to Nintendo Switch 2 and Xbox Series X|S, so there was certainly a lot of optimization to do. 

On Xbox Series S, for example, we were faced with memory constraints, and with the Nintendo Switch 2, there’s the added characteristic of handheld mode, where performance constraints are tighter. Our graphics engineers meticulously tuned the game until we could ensure a stable 30fps, and I think that even among our other current ports, the result really stands out. The response from both Xbox and Nintendo fans has been very positive, so I feel it was worthwhile. "



Louie said:
curl-6 said:

Skyrim is fixed now:

It's not quite perfect as the game's DNA is still rooted in the Creation Engine circa 2011, but you get a mostly stable 60fps mode now, with much reduced input latency.

This is great to hear! Didn't one user argue that the Switch 2's CPU was too weak to run Skyrim at 60fps? Wonder if he'll change his stance now. 

The user in question is pretty much a gimmick account that exists primarily to shit on Nintendo at every opportunity; claiming 60fps wasn't possible due to hardware limitations was always disingenuous and purely just a way of downplaying the system.
Chrkeller said:
Otter said:

Probably the comment was just based on the PS4 version running at 30fps and both systems (S2) have comparable CPUs. One thing to consider is that 30fps was just then default console experience back the, so there are probably a lot of PS4 games with a lot of head room above 30fps but developers didn't care to optimise around a potential 60mode. It is as you say a PS3/360 game after all.

Fair, I think.  Though I would never criticize hardware based on Bethesda games, given they are God awful at optimization.  Oblivion Remake ran like crap on my 4090, i7 13th generation CPU and 32 gb of ram.  Hardware is rarely the problem with Elder Scrolls.   

Yeah Bethesda's games are never particularly well optimized, back when it came out Skyrim would infamously slow down the further you played until after a while on PS3 at least it became unplayable, which IIRC was never fixed. Fallout 4 was also a poor performer, and Oblivion's problems even on high end hardware are well documented. Their in-house tech is just pretty crappy in general, and there's only so much you can do to overcome that just by throwing more power at it.
sc94597 said:

Interesting interview on FF7 Remake. Nothing we didn't really already know , but nice to see confirmation. 

https://automaton-media.com/en/interviews/we-ask-final-fantasy-vii-remake-director-naoki-hamaguchi-about-the-switch-2-versions-hair-problem-why-does-it-happen-and-can-it-be-avoided/ 

"It feels like a great deal of effort went into optimizing FFVII Remake for each platform. Do you personally feel that bringing it to the Nintendo Switch 2 and Xbox Series X|S required a lot of work? 

Naoki Hamaguchi (hereafter Hamaguchi): 
Yes. I sometimes see comments suggesting that since FFVII Remake originally released on the PS4, porting it should have been simple. However, it’s not actually a port of the PS4 version. After the PS4 release, we enhanced the game’s assets to create Intergrade for PS5, and now, we ported that Intergrade version to Nintendo Switch 2 and Xbox Series X|S, so there was certainly a lot of optimization to do. 

On Xbox Series S, for example, we were faced with memory constraints, and with the Nintendo Switch 2, there’s the added characteristic of handheld mode, where performance constraints are tighter. Our graphics engineers meticulously tuned the game until we could ensure a stable 30fps, and I think that even among our other current ports, the result really stands out. The response from both Xbox and Nintendo fans has been very positive, so I feel it was worthwhile. "

They did a very good job with FF7 Remake; I'm at the point of no return now and its definitely one of the better looking games on the system so far, you can tell they really worked hard to get it up to snuff.

Last edited by curl-6 - 1 hour ago

Remake, outside a few stupid side quests, I thoguht was excellent. Rebirth is good as well, but too much fluff.



“Consoles are great… if you like paying extra for features PCs had in 2005.”