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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - How will be Switch 2 performance wise?

 

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Chrkeller said:
Soundwave said:

There's no such thing as "PS4 level power" ... it's irrelevant today, I'm not sure why so many of you can't understand that PS4 power is only relevant to a system from that time period using that exact class of chip (GCN2 era chipsets which are ancient).

The moment you're talking about architecture that 3-4 generations ahead of that, the comparison becomes meaningless because modern chips can run modern engine games a PS4 can't.

Also not sure why people here fixate solely on consoles, the more relevant comparable may well be the Steam Deck, the Steam Deck runs almost every PS5-era title. Now you can whine and moan and gate keep all you want about you refuse to play games at this setting or this frame rate, but you don't speak for everyone or even close to everyone, it's like those audio elitists who look down at every sound bar because it's not a proper giant sized set of speakers. Like no one cares. Also those games on Steam Deck are not even really optimized specifically for the Steam Deck hardware, they're just PC games with settings sliders changed a bit, the Steam Deck would be able to run all those more demanding games better if the developer actually sat down with a full dev team and spent 6-8 months specifically optimizing just for Steam Deck hardware like console ports have the benefit of. This is a huge, huge difference, people are stupid if they're just going to hand wave that away. With better optimization pretty much all of those more demanding Steam Deck games would be able to run at a higher frame rate and/or resolution/effects settings. 

Steam Deck and now ROG Ally are basically their own class of machine. Engines are much more scalable today and comparing to devices that have no internal fan and are pocket sized like an iPhone makes no sense either. Switch 2 is a tablet sized portable with an active fan, it's more logical to compare to a full size iPad and a full size modern iPad would be able to run lots of PS5 games if developers wanted to port them. And even there iPads don't even have the benefit of active cooling and a "docked mode" when connected to power which the Switch 2 will have, they have to run off passive cooling all the time. 

The power of the chip is not the issue on those devices, it's the size of the system (bigger = easier to cool) and whether you have an active fan or not, the chip in the current iPhones can perform a lot higher if it was allowed to run at full performance and had active cooling.

All I know is you hyped the iPhone as something the big three should be afraid of.  And it turns out the iPhone and apple's magical cheaps run games sub ps4 level...  not sub ps5 level.  Not sub ps4 pro level.  But literally RE4 is hot garbage on the iPhone.  

Yeah because iPhones magically are getting to max out at the current level they're at, lol. This is the worst the iPhone will perform at, it will get progressively better and better every year because iPhones get better hardware every year, iPads frankly already are at the place where they can run modern era ("PS5 class games" if you need that dumbed down to understand) games now if a developer wants to put in the effort of a port, but that will get better too, M3 is already out, M4 will be coming out soon, M5 chips, M6 after that, it will never stop. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 10 January 2024

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Soundwave said:
Chrkeller said:

All I know is you hyped the iPhone as something the big three should be afraid of.  And it turns out the iPhone and apple's magical cheaps run games sub ps4 level...  not sub ps5 level.  Not sub ps4 pro level.  But literally RE4 is hot garbage on the iPhone.  

Yeah because iPhones magically are getting to max out at the current level they're at, lol. This is the worst the iPhone will perform at, it will get progressively better and better every year because iPhones get better hardware every year, iPads frankly already are at the place where they can run modern era ("PS5 class games" if you need that dumbed down to understand) games now if a developer wants to put in the effort of a port, but that will get better too, M3, M4, M5 chips, it will never stop. 

IPhones will get better.  There will also be a ps5 pro and a ps6.... the gap will remain for those who want high fidelity.  

Mobile comes with sacrifices.  In the case of the iPhone, massive sacrifices.



Chrkeller said:
Soundwave said:

Yeah because iPhones magically are getting to max out at the current level they're at, lol. This is the worst the iPhone will perform at, it will get progressively better and better every year because iPhones get better hardware every year, iPads frankly already are at the place where they can run modern era ("PS5 class games" if you need that dumbed down to understand) games now if a developer wants to put in the effort of a port, but that will get better too, M3, M4, M5 chips, it will never stop. 

IPhones will get better.  There will also be a ps5 pro and a ps6.... the gap will remain for those who want high fidelity.  

Mobile comes with sacrifices.  In the case of the iPhone, massive sacrifices.

I don't think PS5 Pro is going to have explosive sales aside from early adopters. It's going to be probably $600, more likely $700? Enthusiast market is not as big as people think it is and if you're spending that kind of money you might as well just buy a PC. Like the PS4, the Pro model is not going to sell anywhere close to the main model. 

Faster upgrading product that aren't married to a 7-8 year product cycle in the long run (like PC GPUs, and yes even iPhones and iPads) have a big advantage in that they're upgraded every year pretty much. There's going to be no game in all likelihood that the current Apple M3 chip can't run and that chip already exists, the baseline is stuck at XBox Series S and budget PC cards for most 3rd party games and will be for many more years, a PS5 Pro doesn't change that either. 

The most common GPU on Steam is a Nvidia 3060, followed by a GTX 1650. 



The latest Switch 2 leak is concerning to say the least, I really hope it is bogus. I see 3 main mistakes in the leaked specs:

1. Only 8 GB of RAM. Devs are already frequently complaining that 10 GB (8 useable by devs) on Series S is not enough, so if Nintendo only has 8 GB (6 useable) it definitely feels like many 3rd parties won't want to port their games to Switch 2, just like Switch 1 before it. Imo they need 12 GB of RAM (10 useable by devs).

2. 64 GB of internal storage. Games continue to get bigger and bigger, with some games like CoD now regularly over 100 GB, and the upcoming GTA 6 likely shaping up to be 200 GB+. How in the heck will Switch 2 get ports of these games with such low internal storage? Xbox for instance already committed to putting CoD on Switch 2, but how in the heck will they manage to get a 100 GB+ game to fit on Switch 2? Physical carts only, no digital download? Solid state storage is fairly cheap now, you can get a 500 GB PCIe 3.0 SSD at retail for like $35 now, and Nintendo is buying wholesale, not retail. Why not go big on storage and embrace digital sales where the profit margin for Nintendo is much higher than on physical sales where they waste alot of money on pricey carts?

3. 120hz screen. This just seems pointless. Very few games will be capable of running over 60 fps in handheld mode (ports of older generation games and low graphics indies at most), so why spend money on a higher refresh rate screen when you can put more money into fixing the above RAM and storage problems instead?

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 10 January 2024

shikamaru317 said:

The latest Switch 2 leak is concerning to say the least, I really hope it is bogus. I see 3 main mistakes in the leaked specs:

1. Only 8 GB of RAM. Devs are already frequently complaining that 10 GB (8 useable by devs) on Series S is not enough, so if Nintendo only has 8 GB (6 useable) it definitely feels like many 3rd parties won't want to port their games to Switch 2, just like Switch 1 before it. Imo they need 12 GB of RAM (10 useable by devs).

2. 64 GB of internal storage. Games continue to get bigger and bigger, with some games like CoD now regularly over 100 GB, and the upcoming GTA 6 likely shaping up to be 200 GB+. How in the heck will Switch 2 get ports of these games with such low internal storage. Physical carts only, no digital download? SSD storage is cheap now, you can get a 500 GB PCIe 3.0 SSD at retail for like $35 now, and Nintendo is buying wholesale, not retail. Why not go big on storage and embrace digital sales where the profit margin for Nintendo is much higher than on physical sales where they waste alot of money on pricey carts?

3. 120hz screen. This just seems pointless. Very few games will be capable of running over 60 fps in handheld mode (ports of older generation games and low graphics indies at most), so why spend money on a higher refresh rate screen when you can put more money into fixing the above RAM and storage problems instead?

Storage is my biggest question for the switch 2.  Modern games are easily pushing 100 gb and require fast read speeds.  Cartridges are too expensive for third party to support with said requirements (capacity and speed).  Internally is going to be a tough option because M2 is expensive and gets hot. 

I really don't know how Nintendo will handle this.  I could see storage being an issue for third party developers.  



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I guess it will be better than the Game Boy.



Slownenberg said:
javi741 said:

When it comes to Nintendo tbh I always expect the bare minimum when it comes to specs at this point, Nintendo for the last 2 decades has shown 0 interest in making a powerful console and the Switch being as successful as it is as an underpowered device will only encourage Nintendo to be ok with releasing underpowered hardware

I always find this sentiment funny, when people claim Switch is underpowered. It's a handheld system from 2017! lol. It was powerful for a handheld system in 2017. You can't compare it to 2020 consoles or a 2022 enormous sort-of-but-not-really-portable device like the Steam Deck.

Yes the Wii was underpowered cuz they focused on motion controls, and WiiU was underpowered cuz they did the whole bizarre giant gamepad asynchronous multiplayer terrible design decision. Switch is a handheld though, so its going to have much lower specs than a console, which has nothing to do with being underpowered. Why do so many people not understand the difference between a handheld system and a console, nor the power differences between systems that launch years apart. People are funny when they just want to make an argument and don't care about the reasoning haha.

That's true, but my answer was moreso in response to the people who keep unrealistically comparing Switch specs to home consoles, which on the internet seems to be a large majority of people unfortunately even though it's clear that the Switch isn't aiming to compete with home consoles in graphics and is supposed to be appealing as a hybrid device that can play games on the TV and on the go. Those people need to accept the fact that it's pretty much guaranteed Nintendo will ever be close to home consoles in performance with the Switch formula and with Nintendo wanting to keep the price down.

Also, even though the Switch was a powerful portable device in 2017, Nintendo still had the option to make the Switch even more powerful during development, possibly using the Tegra X2 instead of the X1, but opted out on using it cause they wanted to achieve a better balance when it came to the Switch's capabilities when it came to battery life, features, and price. So even as powerful as the Switch was as a handheld Nintendo still has shown they'd reject more powerful hardware in favor of other stuff.



Soundwave said:

I don't think PS5 Pro is going to have explosive sales aside from early adopters. It's going to be probably $600, more likely $700?

So much cheaper than an iPhone 15 Pro or Pro Max with just a few AAA games.

  • iPhone 15 Pro: £/$999 / €1149 (128GB) up to £/$1499 / €1829 (1TB)
  • iPhone 15 Pro Max: £/$1199 / €1449 (256GB) up to £/$1599 / €1949 (1TB)



Conina said:
Soundwave said:

I don't think PS5 Pro is going to have explosive sales aside from early adopters. It's going to be probably $600, more likely $700?

So much cheaper than an iPhone 15 Pro or Pro Max with just a few AAA games.

  • iPhone 15 Pro: £/$999 / €1149 (128GB) up to £/$1499 / €1829 (1TB)
  • iPhone 15 Pro Max: £/$1199 / €1449 (256GB) up to £/$1599 / €1949 (1TB)

The difference is that basically nobody pays for premium phones upfront.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

shikamaru317 said:

The latest Switch 2 leak is concerning to say the least, I really hope it is bogus. I see 3 main mistakes in the leaked specs:

1. Only 8 GB of RAM. Devs are already frequently complaining that 10 GB (8 useable by devs) on Series S is not enough, so if Nintendo only has 8 GB (6 useable) it definitely feels like many 3rd parties won't want to port their games to Switch 2, just like Switch 1 before it. Imo they need 12 GB of RAM (10 useable by devs).

2. 64 GB of internal storage. Games continue to get bigger and bigger, with some games like CoD now regularly over 100 GB, and the upcoming GTA 6 likely shaping up to be 200 GB+. How in the heck will Switch 2 get ports of these games with such low internal storage? Xbox for instance already committed to putting CoD on Switch 2, but how in the heck will they manage to get a 100 GB+ game to fit on Switch 2? Physical carts only, no digital download? Solid state storage is fairly cheap now, you can get a 500 GB PCIe 3.0 SSD at retail for like $35 now, and Nintendo is buying wholesale, not retail. Why not go big on storage and embrace digital sales where the profit margin for Nintendo is much higher than on physical sales where they waste alot of money on pricey carts?

3. 120hz screen. This just seems pointless. Very few games will be capable of running over 60 fps in handheld mode (ports of older generation games and low graphics indies at most), so why spend money on a higher refresh rate screen when you can put more money into fixing the above RAM and storage problems instead?

12 GB RAM could happen. Steam Deck is obviously a lot weaker than the 9th gen consoles but has 16 GB RAM. I really don't see Nintendo using that much. Nintendo will probably use 8 or 10, but 12 like you said would be awesome. 

64 GB storage is indeed very paltry. Let's look at some file sizes.

Switch is closer to an Xbox 360 and PS3 in specs than an Xbox One and PS4, but is still clearly above those old consoles.

Uncharted 3 on PS3 is about 43.5 GB. I don't know of any Nintendo games on Switch with that high of a file size, but there are some that are 17 GB and up with updates and DLC. And of course, NBA 2K24 is 61.7 GB. With that in mind Switch having 32 GB (64 GB for OLED) of storage is still small, but not the craziest thing for a hybrid.

Now let's look at Xbox One and PS4, which Switch 2 will be more in line with. COD Modern Warfare is 175 GB+, and I'm sure some third-party games on Switch 2 might be around that. There will probably be a good number of Nintendo games that push 20 GB, some might even go above 40 GB.

128 GB seems like the minimum amount of storage for Switch 2, with 200-256 GB as more ideal. 

120hz on a small screen seems like an unneeded expense for Nintendo. I can picture virtually no games in handheld or docked running 120hz on Switch 2 (PS4 and Xbox One can't run 120hz). I'd take a 1080p screen on Switch 2 over 120hz. The resolution might still be 720p, though. Or maybe 800p (Steam Deck) or 900p. 



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 161 million (was 73 million, then 96 million, then 113 million, then 125 million, then 144 million, then 151 million, then 156 million)

PS5: 115 million (was 105 million) Xbox Series S/X: 48 million (was 60 million, then 67 million, then 57 million)

PS4: 120 mil (was 100 then 130 million, then 122 million) Xbox One: 51 mil (was 50 then 55 mil)

3DS: 75.5 mil (was 73, then 77 million)

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