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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - VGC: Switch 2 Was Shown At Gamescom Running Matrix Awakens UE5 Demo

zorg1000 said:
Chrkeller said:


When I asked why nobody else is using the chipset other than Nintendo his answer was nVidia doesn't want to play with small players.  People believe it.

And isn't the entire thread based on the premise the switch 2 behind closed door had visuals that rivals the ps5 and series x?  

"The demo is said to have been running using Nvidia’s DLSS upscaling technology, with advanced ray tracing enabled and visuals comparable to Sony‘s and Microsoft’s current-gen consoles"

So how am I exaggerating when the entire thread is literally about matching the ps5 in visual fidelity?

I’m no expert but aren’t Steam Deck, Rog Ally & Legion Go essentially handheld gaming PCs so they have to use x86 to be compatible with existing Steam/Windows libraries and going with the ARM based Tegra line that Nintendo uses would require games to be developed specifically for them? If that’s the case than it seems like a really good reason why Valve, Asus & Lenovo aren’t using this tech.

As for Nvidia not wanting to play with small players, isn’t that somewhat valid? Nintendo has averaged 20+ million units shipped per year since FY90-91, they can leverage that to get good deals on components because of the high volume. Steam Deck, Rog Ally & Legion Go are niche devices that combined will likely sell less lifetime than Nintendo sells in a single year, they aren’t going to get great deals until they can prove these are mass market devices.


That statement could very well be hyperbole but a couple points being they probably weren’t doing an in-depth side-by-side analysis, the excitement of being one of the first people to see a new gaming device in action & it may have exceeded their expectations. The combination of those factors could easily cause someone to exaggerate.


With that said, I think people are focusing on the wrong things here. Whether Switch 2 is as powerful as Xbox One or PS4 or PS4 Pro or Xbox One X or Series S or PS5 or Series X doesn’t matter, the more important question is whether or not Switch 2 supports the latest engines and can run AAA 3rd party games without major downgrades. If it can do that than who cares which other console it’s technically closest to?

I agree and that is the big question.  Take FFVII Remake. The ps4 pro struggled with loading high quality textures for a variety of reasons.  Meanwhile the ps5, because of VRAM and memory speed, has no issues.  Not too mention 60 fps.  DLSS won't fix this issue.  So what the switch 2 can do is certainly in question and the answer isn't simply "DLSS."  

I'm also curious how Nintendo handles storage space and read speeds...  quality assets are not small.  And increasing the resolution of low quality assets doesn't magically just work.  Junk assets at a higher resolution are still junk.  

Lots of questions.  

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 08 September 2023

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Chrkeller said:
zorg1000 said:

I’m no expert but aren’t Steam Deck, Rog Ally & Legion Go essentially handheld gaming PCs so they have to use x86 to be compatible with existing Steam/Windows libraries and going with the ARM based Tegra line that Nintendo uses would require games to be developed specifically for them? If that’s the case than it seems like a really good reason why Valve, Asus & Lenovo aren’t using this tech.

As for Nvidia not wanting to play with small players, isn’t that somewhat valid? Nintendo has averaged 20+ million units shipped per year since FY90-91, they can leverage that to get good deals on components because of the high volume. Steam Deck, Rog Ally & Legion Go are niche devices that combined will likely sell less lifetime than Nintendo sells in a single year, they aren’t going to get great deals until they can prove these are mass market devices.


That statement could very well be hyperbole but a couple points being they probably weren’t doing an in-depth side-by-side analysis, the excitement of being one of the first people to see a new gaming device in action & it may have exceeded their expectations. The combination of those factors could easily cause someone to exaggerate.


With that said, I think people are focusing on the wrong things here. Whether Switch 2 is as powerful as Xbox One or PS4 or PS4 Pro or Xbox One X or Series S or PS5 or Series X doesn’t matter, the more important question is whether or not Switch 2 supports the latest engines and can run AAA 3rd party games without major downgrades. If it can do that than who cares which other console it’s technically closest to?

I agree and that is the big question.  Take FFVII Remake. The ps4 pro struggled with loading high quality textures for a variety of reasons.  Meanwhile the ps5, because of VRAM and memory speed, has no issues.  DLSS won't fix this issue.  So what the switch 2 can do is certainly in question and the answer isn't simply "DLSS."  

I'm also curious how Nintendo handles storage space and read speeds...  quality assets are not small.  And increasing the resolution of low quality assets doesn't magically just work.  Junk assets at a higher resolution are still junk.  

Lots of questions.  

PS4 version still looks very similar to the PS5 version and the Switch 2 version is going to have lighting and other effects the PS4 version can't have. The PS4 version has some temp textures too because of time issues, not because of RAM issues (it's well known they just left temp textures on doors and things like that). 

The PS4 version of Miles Morales is shockingly close to the PS5 version frankly and Miles Morales is a better looking game than FF7 Remake IMO. It was basically the launch title for the PS5. 

IMO after you get passed PS4 tier graphics, the differences in visuals become much more subtle because either you invest that horse power in subtle effects like light bounces/reflections or ... you spend a Hollywood movie style budget for higher end models/visuals ... the second option is not possible for most studios, even huge studios can't be making $200 million dollar video games. Graphics don't magically come for free. The other thing is lighting doesn't scale linearally like people think. Just because you have 5x more powerful hardware doesn't mean your lighting is going to look 5x better. It means your GPU can be bogged down be calculating light bounces that basically force it to max out but the end result of what it looks like on screen actually isn't that big of a difference.

Last edited by Soundwave - on 08 September 2023

Soundwave said:
Chrkeller said:

I agree and that is the big question.  Take FFVII Remake. The ps4 pro struggled with loading high quality textures for a variety of reasons.  Meanwhile the ps5, because of VRAM and memory speed, has no issues.  DLSS won't fix this issue.  So what the switch 2 can do is certainly in question and the answer isn't simply "DLSS."  

I'm also curious how Nintendo handles storage space and read speeds...  quality assets are not small.  And increasing the resolution of low quality assets doesn't magically just work.  Junk assets at a higher resolution are still junk.  

Lots of questions.  

PS4 version still looks very similar to the PS5 version and the Switch 2 version is going to have lighting and other effects the PS4 version can't have. The PS4 version has some temp textures too because of time issues, not because of RAM issues (it's well known they just left temp textures on doors and things like that). 

The PS4 version of Miles Morales is shockingly close to the PS5 version frankly and Miles Morales is a better looking game than FF7 Remake IMO. It was basically the launch title for the PS5. 

I'll let the expert digital foundry folks know you don't agree with their in depth technical analysis.  

And continue to ignore the 60 fps performance option.  Have a good weekend.



Chrkeller said:
Soundwave said:

PS4 version still looks very similar to the PS5 version and the Switch 2 version is going to have lighting and other effects the PS4 version can't have. The PS4 version has some temp textures too because of time issues, not because of RAM issues (it's well known they just left temp textures on doors and things like that). 

The PS4 version of Miles Morales is shockingly close to the PS5 version frankly and Miles Morales is a better looking game than FF7 Remake IMO. It was basically the launch title for the PS5. 

I'll let the expert digital foundry folks know you don't agree with their in depth technical analysis.  

And continue to ignore the 60 fps performance option.  Have a good weekend.

Do you ask Digital Foundry when to poop and pee too or do you have your own opinion on these things? lol. Digital Foundry's job is to slow down things and analyze by frame by frame, no one actually plays video games that way. 

Again here is Spider-Man Miles Morales on the PS4 versus the PS5. 

I think any reasonable person can say the PS4 version holds up extremely well. Shockingly well actually. Frankly the PS5 is a rather underwhelming generational difference. If Switch 2 runs Tears of the Kingdom at 60 frame per second, I'm not falling out of my seat in amazement. Like sorry but I don't think running a game that runs fine on a previous generation console, but just at double the frame rate is "holy crap!" moment. In the past we'd laugh at a generational leap that small. 

There's nothing on the PS5/XSX honestly that makes me go "wow, what a huge generational leap" the way PS3 over PS2 or PS2 over PS1 did. The most impressive thing I've seen on the PS5/XSX 3 years in is The Matrix Awakens demo, that's really the only thing that made me go "whoa, OK that is a step up" and that's not even an actual game, lol. Probably because it would cost a fortune to make a full game look like that. Diminishing returns is definitely setting in. To get to a visual fidelity that is wildly past the PS4 needs you to trend into photorealism, and to get visuals of that caliber I think you are talking about a budget that even most big ticket studios cannot sustain. 

A lot of the power of the PS5/XSX is being sucked away by having to push a ridiculous number of pixels (4K) and calculating lighting bounces/reflections that really you have to stop and study closely to notice half the time and studios are fine with that because they don't want to actually hire an art staff the size of a Hollywood movie to do their graphics anyway (so they don't really want to go that far beyond a PS4 tier of graphics). Most PS5 games just look like PS4 games on steroids running at a higher resolution. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 08 September 2023

Soundwave said:
Chrkeller said:

I'll let the expert digital foundry folks know you don't agree with their in depth technical analysis.  

And continue to ignore the 60 fps performance option.  Have a good weekend.

Do you ask Digital Foundry when to poop and pee too or do you have your own opinion on these things? lol. Digital Foundry's job is to slow down things and analyze by frame by frame, no one actually plays video games that way. 

Again here is Spider-Man Miles Morales on the PS4 versus the PS5. 

I think any reasonable person can say the PS4 version holds up extremely well. Shockingly well actually. Frankly the PS5 is a rather underwhelming generational difference. If Switch 2 runs Tears of the Kingdom at 60 frame per second, I'm not falling out of my seat in amazement. Like sorry but I don't think running a game that runs fine on a previous generation console, but just at double the frame rate is "holy crap!" moment. In the past we'd laugh at a generational leap that small. 

There's nothing on the PS5/XSX honestly that makes me go "wow, what a huge generational leap" the way PS3 over PS2 or PS2 over PS1 did. The most impressive thing I've seen on the PS5/XSX 3 years in is The Matrix Awakens demo, that's really the only thing that made me go "whoa, OK that is a step up" and that's not even an actual game, lol. Probably because it would cost a fortune to make a full game look like that. Diminishing returns is definitely setting in. To get to a visual fidelity that is wildly past the PS4 needs you to trend into photorealism, and to get visuals of that caliber I think you are talking about a budget that even most big ticket studios cannot sustain. 

A lot of the power of the PS5/XSX is being sucked away by having to push a ridiculous number of pixels (4K) and calculating lighting bounces/reflections that really you have to stop and study closely to notice half the time and studios are fine with that because they don't want to actually hire an art staff the size of a Hollywood movie to do their graphics anyway (so they don't really want to go that far beyond a PS4 tier of graphics). Most PS5 games just look like PS4 games on steroids running at a higher resolution. 

We heard the same thing with wiiu ports, newer architecture will makes games run better then 360 the majority didn't.  I don't expect that with switch 2 but the best thing to do is wait and see ports, that honestly gives the best idea of where switch 2 at.   

Last edited by zeldaring - on 08 September 2023

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Chrkeller said:
Soundwave said:

PS4 version still looks very similar to the PS5 version and the Switch 2 version is going to have lighting and other effects the PS4 version can't have. The PS4 version has some temp textures too because of time issues, not because of RAM issues (it's well known they just left temp textures on doors and things like that). 

The PS4 version of Miles Morales is shockingly close to the PS5 version frankly and Miles Morales is a better looking game than FF7 Remake IMO. It was basically the launch title for the PS5. 

I'll let the expert digital foundry folks know you don't agree with their in depth technical analysis.  

And continue to ignore the 60 fps performance option.  Have a good weekend.

There's no disagreement in his response, just an accurate depiction of diminishing returns which digital foundry talk about a lot. Most gamers do not not need 60fps for the average game... The general public don't even recognise when their TV has the aweful frame generating motion+ features...



Chrkeller said:
Soundwave said:

PS4 version still looks very similar to the PS5 version and the Switch 2 version is going to have lighting and other effects the PS4 version can't have. The PS4 version has some temp textures too because of time issues, not because of RAM issues (it's well known they just left temp textures on doors and things like that). 

The PS4 version of Miles Morales is shockingly close to the PS5 version frankly and Miles Morales is a better looking game than FF7 Remake IMO. It was basically the launch title for the PS5. 

I'll let the expert digital foundry folks know you don't agree with their in depth technical analysis.  

And continue to ignore the 60 fps performance option.  Have a good weekend.

But without having a professional give you a frame by frame technical analysis would you notice major differences between PS4 & PS5 versions of games like Miles Morales,  Ragnarok or FF7? Or would it feel like subtle differences?



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 said:
Chrkeller said:

I'll let the expert digital foundry folks know you don't agree with their in depth technical analysis.  

And continue to ignore the 60 fps performance option.  Have a good weekend.

But without having a professional give you a frame by frame technical analysis would you notice major differences between PS4 & PS5 versions of games like Miles Morales,  Ragnarok or FF7? Or would it feel like subtle differences?

umm yea 60fps is a massive difference. I'm replaying Elden ring now on ps5 after playing the ps4 version on ps5 locked 60fps and i noticed the much better graphics and notice the worse frame rate as well in the PS5 version which is annoying.



zorg1000 said:
Chrkeller said:

I'll let the expert digital foundry folks know you don't agree with their in depth technical analysis.  

And continue to ignore the 60 fps performance option.  Have a good weekend.

But without having a professional give you a frame by frame technical analysis would you notice major differences between PS4 & PS5 versions of games like Miles Morales,  Ragnarok or FF7? Or would it feel like subtle differences?

Performance mode, significant and massive improvement.  60 fps is awesome and not remotely subtle IMHO.  I've played FF7 on the pro and again on the ps5.  Absolutely 60 fps is a massive improvement.

I would greatly prefer Nintendo, with the switch 2, to use power for 60 fps and not go after RT.

And the ps5 games that support 120 hz....  amazing.  Anybody who thinks the ps5 isn't a massive jump over the ps4 needs to play Rift in performance at 120 hz.

Now if people dont care that is fine, people deserve respect for their opinions.  But arguing Ragnarok at 60 fps at 120 hz isn't a significant jump are being absurd. 

The gap between the ps4 and ps5 isn't small.

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 08 September 2023

Just to speculate a little bit further, actually we do not know anything about the Switch 2 new Dock.
This time it could include extra chips, NVIDIA tensor cores or whaterver to boost performance/visual quality for TV mode in order to have a graphics quality in line with the current gen.

I'm just speculating, but let think about it, Nintendo could even launch two Switch 2 models: one without the Dock at a lower price and a full-package including console+dock at an higher price.