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Forums - PC Discussion - Baldur's Gate 3 - “It’s Rockstar-level nonsense for scope”

TheLegendaryBigBoss said:
gtotheunit91 said:

Rockstar-level is pretty accurate when it comes to what Baldur's Gate 3 will be offering, especially in the CRPG space.

The genre has always been very niche and not many titles in the genre come out to this day. I mean, Baldur's Gate 3 contains 174 hours of cutscenes and 17,000 ending variations!!!! What game in history has come remotely close to numbers like this?!? That's the level of detail that can only be comparable to something that Rockstar would make.

It took a well known IP and a lot of dedication of resources to make a CRPG of this caliber. The genre in general never sells more than a few million copies at most. So is it unreasonable to expect the same level of quality and content for future CRPG's to have compared to BG3? It unfortunately is. The only IP I can see that could possibly get the same treatment down the road would be Fallout if it returned to its CRPG roots. But new titles are so few and far between in this genre, so who knows when we'll get the next one down the road.

Unless by some miracle, BG3 sells a ludicrous number of copies that causes publishers to take notice and start a golden age of the genre. I'll keep my fingers crossed for that lol.

The only notable games in the genre that have released somewhat recently are of course Divinity: Original Sin 2, Wasteland 3, Pillars of Eternity, Tyranny, and Torment: Tides of Numenera. 

Titles like that aren't going to get the kind of funding needed to have another Baldur's Gate 3. Should it be a standard though? HELL YES!

That makes sense, although if Obsidian are able to make Pillars 3 then I'm sure they will get the funding they need. From what I recall DOS2 was crowdfunded? That turned out to be one of the best RPGs

That is a good point. Pillars and DOS2 were crowdfunded. Wasteland 3 is a good example of what developers can be capable of with a higher budget. It was also a crowdfunded game, but when inXile was purchased by Xbox and the budget increased, they were able to hire more developers, hire voice actors, and implement conversational scenes with every dialogue prompt. And that was later in development. 

Obsidian and inXile aren't currently known to be working on another CRPG, inXile does have a second secret unannounced project, but that does give me hope that they'll have a proper budget if/when the time comes! 

In the meantime, I'm going to enjoy the hell out of Baldur's Gate 3! Bravo Larian!!!



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Scope is a thing but can they keep a minimum of quality and consistency throughout all these hours of cutscenes and achievable endings (which is most prolly quite overblown due to tiny variables that can come into play) ?

That'll be the question to be answered.



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Shaunodon said:
Plumblaster said:

What on Earth is the point in 17000 endings?? When games had 2 or 3 different endings then I would play through the game again to see the different endings, but even the saddest of all sad PC players are not going to play through a game 17000 times to see the different endings.

Obviously it's not designed for you to see every ending but for you to try different builds and paths to see how your choices affect the outcome. It promotes player choice and agency to try and make it feel like a uniquely tailored experience, rather than just giving 2 or 3 different sets of obvious handrails to guide you to one portion of a pre-designed story.

Its not just the ended. Many obstacles in rpgs, typically have 1 or 2 ways to get around them, (maybe a good, evil, neutral route?)..... but BG3 has like multiple differnt ways to solve most puzzles and obstacles. Again like Shaunodon said, players arn't ment to play through every route and choice in a game.

However, you should be "free" to make your character as you want, and play through the game as you want, and have your choices and actions, relfect in the game world. Something sadly, very few RPGs do to much extent. Apparently BG3 has lots of this stuff in it, which some view as "rockstar-level nonsense for scope".

Mar1217 said:

Scope is a thing but can they keep a minimum of quality and consistency throughout all these hours of cutscenes and achievable endings (which is most prolly quite overblown due to tiny variables that can come into play) ?

That'll be the question to be answered.


So far the answear is "yes!".

To the degree, that other devs are out there like "dont be expecting this game, to set a new standard" (ei. we wont do this much work for our games).
This is why BG3 is a standout..... Most game devs, won't put 7 years into makeing a game like BG3, which likely wont even sell 20m copies.... just out of passion for their games. They wouldn't spend 3 years in early access, with them just polishing it, removeing bugs, fixing things, changeing things due to player feedback, rewriteing story archs, getting new voice actors (because players didn't like one) ect ect ect.

BG3 is gonna launch, in a more polished state than most games do these times.
Its got more dev time, and care put into it, than most devs would, because its a privately owned company, that isn't beholden to share holders, to maximise profits.

Their goal, is to make a game that, sets the bar (real high).
They arn't as profit driven as other companys that would typically make these sorts of games.
(crpgs dont sell the amount of copies, a shooter like call of duty does. So why bother? passion or love for a genre)

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 21 July 2023

JRPGfan said:
Shaunodon said:

Obviously it's not designed for you to see every ending but for you to try different builds and paths to see how your choices affect the outcome. It promotes player choice and agency to try and make it feel like a uniquely tailored experience, rather than just giving 2 or 3 different sets of obvious handrails to guide you to one portion of a pre-designed story.

Its not just the ended. Many obstacles in rpgs, typically have 1 or 2 ways to get around them, (maybe a good, evil, neutral route?)..... but BG3 has like multiple differnt ways to solve most puzzles and obstacles. Again like Shaunodon said, players arn't ment to play through every route and choice in a game.

However, you should be "free" to make your character as you want, and play through the game as you want, and have your choices and actions, relfect in the game world. Something sadly, very few RPGs do to much extent. Apparently BG3 has lots of this stuff in it, which some view as "rockstar-level nonsense for scope".

Mar1217 said:

Scope is a thing but can they keep a minimum of quality and consistency throughout all these hours of cutscenes and achievable endings (which is most prolly quite overblown due to tiny variables that can come into play) ?

That'll be the question to be answered.


So far the answear is "yes!".

To the degree, that other devs are out there like "dont be expecting this game, to set a new standard" (ei. we wont do this much work for our games).
This is why BG3 is a standout..... Most game devs, won't put 7 years into makeing a game like BG3, which likely wont even sell 20m copies.... just out of passion for their games. They wouldn't spend 3 years in early access, with them just polishing it, removeing bugs, fixing things, changeing things due to player feedback, rewriteing story archs, getting new voice actors (because players didn't like one) ect ect ect.

BG3 is gonna launch, in a more polished state than most games do these times.
Its got more dev time, and care put into it, than most devs would, because its a privately owned company, that isn't beholden to share holders, to maximise profits.

Their goal, is to make a game that, sets the bar (real high).
They arn't as profit driven as other companys that would typically make these sorts of games.
(crpgs dont sell the amount of copies, a shooter like call of duty does. So why bother? passion or love for a genre)

I guess we can certainly hope this get the positive reception and sales it could potentially deserves. These kind of devs are the ones needed most in this sometimes bleak industry 



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Are the devs who are saying this ones that like to release incomplete games and milk people with game passes and microtransactions?



 

 

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174 Hours of cutscenes and over 17.000 variations of ending. Man, back in the days I thought Chrono Trigger had a lot of endings...

Crossing my fingers for this one to be a success.



Cobretti2 said:

Are the devs who are saying this ones that like to release incomplete games and milk people with game passes and microtransactions?

Basically yeah :)

Mar1217 said:

I guess we can certainly hope this get the positive reception and sales it could potentially deserves. These kind of devs are the ones needed most in this sometimes bleak industry 

I really want them to succede, and do well with sales.

I feel like if devs put so much love and care, and dev time into a game, that ontop of what seems to push the standards of our times forwards...
it needs to be rewarded.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 22 July 2023

Alex_The_Hedgehog said:

174 Hours of cutscenes and over 17.000 variations of ending. Man, back in the days I thought Chrono Trigger had a lot of endings...

Crossing my fingers for this one to be a success.

Supposedly the playthrough of the main story is going to be a 100+ hour journey.
You go exploreing side quests, and other places of intrest.... its gonna last you a good while.

Ontop of how much replayability the game has, from all the differnt ways to play the game.

*edit:

Like even the race you pick at the start, determines some dialog choices and what can happend in the playthrough.
Ontop of some gear haveing race specific bonuses ect.  You can plan out builds, based around item drops ect.
I love all the customiseablity its looking to have.

videos about this stuff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSHgtd2JALk



Builds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV24gZ_744w




This is always part of the BG experiance..... differnt play throughs with differnt planned out characters :)
(You know you'll atleast do one as "The dark Urge", and one of your own makeing, whatever flavor that might be)

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 22 July 2023

I'll believe it when I see it. I've played (and mostly) DMed DnD 5e (on which BG3 is based on) for several years, so I know the system intimately - and it's not very good one, to be polite. So, hopefully the story is good and there is well done open ended gameplay with lots of consequences and world that reacts to player actions to make up for lousy system.



Cobretti2 said:

Are the devs who are saying this ones that like to release incomplete games and milk people with game passes and microtransactions?

Well depends. On the ones that chimed in are Josh Sawyer, who works at Obsidian at POE (and funnily enough he worked at Black Isle who made the original Baldur's Gate games, but he worked on Icewind Dale), but also a designer of Diablo IV.



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