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Forums - Politics Discussion - Saudi Arabia in talks with SE for 8 months to get LGBT content censored

Astrals on 27 June 2023
Torillian said:
Astrals said:

You are probably right about the ban reason. Which is still silly imo because the game can be downloaded fron US ps store in the region.

As for the rest, In the Islamic culture. Only God is wise enough to determine what is right and what is wrong, not oneself, because the fickleness of the human "heart" . That is why Muslims call themselves "slaves of Allah" as they are not supposed to have a will different that the will of God.

Sure, feel free to call Allah evil and believers stupid, but I'm merly pointing out this is not the way to make the situation better.

I'm curious, what would be your recommendation for making the situation better?

I don't know for certain. But I would recommend not antagonising the other party, because it is the first step of having a meaning conversation... Which could help the situation.

Everyone needs to understand that if the situation was different, and you were born into a different society, and culture than yours right now. You most likely would have absorbed that culture into your character. Being on the opposite end of the conversation right now.



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DonFerrari on 28 June 2023
Ka-pi96 said:
Astrals said:

How do we know that the reason of the block was LGBT related? The tweet doesn't say that with certainty. I ask because FFVII remake was blocked in some middle eastern counties for some other unknown reason.

Obviously, the cultural differences are too wide. It is fruitless to argue about it. I have no idea how you guys find the motivation to do it continuously. I just find it silly to believe that it is black and white situation. Judging from some of the statmets that are made here. The differences will only grow wider with time.

Occam's razor.

I can only think of 3 reasons Saudi would ban it. It has LGBT stuff. It has anti-islam stuff. Or it has anti-Saudi stuff. Considering it's set in a fictional world and there's next to no chance of islam or Saudi ever being mentioned in the game... that leaves only 1 possibility.

Unless you can think of other reasons they would ban a game?

I'm halfway through the game... there are despiction of religion (not sure if they ban games that talk about others when Islam isn't involved), there are country that is similar to Arabic countries (but didn't see much negative about them, but they are more extremist than the others) and yes so far I have seem one brief homoaphective kiss of 3 seconds.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

LurkerJ on 28 June 2023
Astrals said:
Torillian said:

I'm curious, what would be your recommendation for making the situation better?

I don't know for certain. But I would recommend not antagonising the other party, because it is the first step of having a meaning conversation... Which could help the situation.

Everyone needs to understand that if the situation was different, and you were born into a different society, and culture than yours right now. You most likely would have absorbed that culture into your character. Being on the opposite end of the conversation right now.

I think the modern left is completely failing the LGBT cause with the highly civilised and the high tolerance they're trying to show to every body, I am not saying you're suggesting is wrong, and I am sure you're a nice person, but this simply doesn't work. Showing tolerance to intolerance isn't going to solve problems, it creates them. 

The left needs a wake up and needs to remember that de-christianising the west was a long-term process that included ridiculing and criticising religions and religious people at every turn, this sounds mean and horrible, but it's important to remember that religions criticises us at every turn as well, way more harshly and downright unreasonably. Kids born into religious families should be exposed to a culture that has normalised criticising their beliefs, just the way religions has normalising criticising liberal values, this makes their critical thinking centres less subjected to brainwashing as it keeps a narrow window open to understand that not everything they're being taught is true. We'll never have that in Saudi, but we should never allow their ideology to fester in our communities in the name of tolerance and being civil. 

On the other hand, acknowledging that we can't eliminate LGBT-phobia in Saudi, we should open proper immigration channels to the LGBT communities living under oppression, and it would a step in the right direction of regulating immigration in the west. 

‘A sense of betrayal’: liberal dismay as Muslim-led US city bans Pride flags

Many liberals celebrated when Hamtramck, Michigan, elected a Muslim-majority council in 2015 but a vote to exclude LGBTQ+ flags from city property has soured relations

Muslim residents packing city hall erupted in cheers after the council’s unanimous vote, and on Hamtramck’s social media pages, the taunting has been relentless: “Fagless City”, read one post, emphasized with emojis of a bicep flexing.

The resolution, which also prohibits the display of flags with ethnic, racist and political views, comes at a time when LGBTQ+ rights are under assault worldwide, and other US cities have passed similar bans, with the vast majority driven by often white politically conservative Americans.

Mayor Amer Ghalib, 43, who was elected in 2021 with 67% of the vote to become the nation’s first Yemeni American mayor, told the Guardian on Thursday he tries to govern fairly for everyone, but said LGBTQ+ supporters had stoked tension by “forcing their agendas on others”.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned

This doesn't shock me at all, even though it happened in a liberal city like Michigan. 



CosmicSex on 28 June 2023
LurkerJ said:

I think the modern left is completely failing the LGBT cause with the highly civilised and the high tolerance they're trying to show to every body, I am not saying you're suggesting is wrong, and I am sure you're a nice person, but this simply doesn't work. Showing tolerance to intolerance isn't going to solve problems, it creates them. 

The left needs a wake up and needs to remember that de-christianising the west was a long-term process that included ridiculing and criticising religions and religious people at every turn, this sounds mean and horrible, but it's important to remember that religions criticises us at every turn as well, way more harshly and downright unreasonably. Kids born into religious families should be exposed to a culture that has normalised criticising their beliefs, just the way religions has normalising criticising liberal values, this makes their critical thinking centres less subjected to brainwashing as it keeps a narrow window open to understand that not everything they're being taught is true. We'll never have that in Saudi, but we should never allow their ideology to fester in our communities in the name of tolerance and being civil. 

On the other hand, acknowledging that we can't eliminate LGBT-phobia in Saudi, we should open proper immigration channels to the LGBT communities living under oppression, and it would a step in the right direction of regulating immigration in the west. 

‘A sense of betrayal’: liberal dismay as Muslim-led US city bans Pride flags

Many liberals celebrated when Hamtramck, Michigan, elected a Muslim-majority council in 2015 but a vote to exclude LGBTQ+ flags from city property has soured relations

Muslim residents packing city hall erupted in cheers after the council’s unanimous vote, and on Hamtramck’s social media pages, the taunting has been relentless: “Fagless City”, read one post, emphasized with emojis of a bicep flexing.

The resolution, which also prohibits the display of flags with ethnic, racist and political views, comes at a time when LGBTQ+ rights are under assault worldwide, and other US cities have passed similar bans, with the vast majority driven by often white politically conservative Americans.

Mayor Amer Ghalib, 43, who was elected in 2021 with 67% of the vote to become the nation’s first Yemeni American mayor, told the Guardian on Thursday he tries to govern fairly for everyone, but said LGBTQ+ supporters had stoked tension by “forcing their agendas on others”.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned

This doesn't shock me at all, even though it happened in a liberal city like Michigan. 

This is so dumb...Don't we have actual important things to be working on?



Norion on 28 June 2023
LurkerJ said:
Astrals said:

I don't know for certain. But I would recommend not antagonising the other party, because it is the first step of having a meaning conversation... Which could help the situation.

Everyone needs to understand that if the situation was different, and you were born into a different society, and culture than yours right now. You most likely would have absorbed that culture into your character. Being on the opposite end of the conversation right now.

I think the modern left is completely failing the LGBT cause with the highly civilised and the high tolerance they're trying to show to every body, I am not saying you're suggesting is wrong, and I am sure you're a nice person, but this simply doesn't work. Showing tolerance to intolerance isn't going to solve problems, it creates them. 

The left needs a wake up and needs to remember that de-christianising the west was a long-term process that included ridiculing and criticising religions and religious people at every turn, this sounds mean and horrible, but it's important to remember that religions criticises us at every turn as well, way more harshly and downright unreasonably. Kids born into religious families should be exposed to a culture that has normalised criticising their beliefs, just the way religions has normalising criticising liberal values, this makes their critical thinking centres less subjected to brainwashing as it keeps a narrow window open to understand that not everything they're being taught is true. We'll never have that in Saudi, but we should never allow their ideology to fester in our communities in the name of tolerance and being civil. 

On the other hand, acknowledging that we can't eliminate LGBT-phobia in Saudi, we should open proper immigration channels to the LGBT communities living under oppression, and it would a step in the right direction of regulating immigration in the west. 

This is really bad in the UK. You have left wing people here who genuinely argue things like Muslims not having a homophobia problem despite all the evidence to the contrary and it's infuriating seeing a backwards ideology spreading here and people defending it and attacking those who speak out against it.

Last edited by Norion - on 28 June 2023

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Jumpin on 29 June 2023

LurkerJ said:

I think the modern left is completely failing the LGBT cause with the highly civilised and the high tolerance they're trying to show to every body, I am not saying you're suggesting is wrong, and I am sure you're a nice person, but this simply doesn't work. Showing tolerance to intolerance isn't going to solve problems, it creates them. 

The left needs a wake up and needs to remember that de-christianising the west was a long-term process that included ridiculing and criticising religions and religious people at every turn, this sounds mean and horrible, but it's important to remember that religions criticises us at every turn as well, way more harshly and downright unreasonably. Kids born into religious families should be exposed to a culture that has normalised criticising their beliefs, just the way religions has normalising criticising liberal values, this makes their critical thinking centres less subjected to brainwashing as it keeps a narrow window open to understand that not everything they're being taught is true. We'll never have that in Saudi, but we should never allow their ideology to fester in our communities in the name of tolerance and being civil. 

On the other hand, acknowledging that we can't eliminate LGBT-phobia in Saudi, we should open proper immigration channels to the LGBT communities living under oppression, and it would a step in the right direction of regulating immigration in the west. 

‘A sense of betrayal’: liberal dismay as Muslim-led US city bans Pride flags

Many liberals celebrated when Hamtramck, Michigan, elected a Muslim-majority council in 2015 but a vote to exclude LGBTQ+ flags from city property has soured relations

Muslim residents packing city hall erupted in cheers after the council’s unanimous vote, and on Hamtramck’s social media pages, the taunting has been relentless: “Fagless City”, read one post, emphasized with emojis of a bicep flexing.

The resolution, which also prohibits the display of flags with ethnic, racist and political views, comes at a time when LGBTQ+ rights are under assault worldwide, and other US cities have passed similar bans, with the vast majority driven by often white politically conservative Americans.

Mayor Amer Ghalib, 43, who was elected in 2021 with 67% of the vote to become the nation’s first Yemeni American mayor, told the Guardian on Thursday he tries to govern fairly for everyone, but said LGBTQ+ supporters had stoked tension by “forcing their agendas on others”.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned

This doesn't shock me at all, even though it happened in a liberal city like Michigan. 

Projection if I've ever seen it. It's insanity that this mayor believes there's some agenda being forced when he's the one passing demagogue-type laws because he's offended.

Using religion (or any ideology) like a stick to beat the downtrodden is evil. This Mayor is thrice the son of hell that he thinks any LGBTQ+ person is.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

CosmicSex on 17 July 2023

Soooo... I beat the game and I can say without a doubt that the ban is silly and completely unwarranted. Of all of the swords to fall on you take issue with this... and nothing else?

Gay people exist. It's not a big deal as some are trying to make it.



LurkerJ on 17 July 2023
CosmicSex said:

Soooo... I beat the game and I can say without a doubt that the ban is silly and completely unwarranted. Of all of the swords to fall on you take issue with this... and nothing else?

Gay people exist. It's not a big deal as some are trying to make it.

Yeah, there was no doubt in my mind it was related to LGBT content, and giving this is an SE game, I was expecting it to be related to L or G communities. 

I haven't played the game yet, although, I did buy it, so thank you for the spoiler free post. 



LurkerJ on 17 July 2023
Norion said:
LurkerJ said:

I think the modern left is completely failing the LGBT cause with the highly civilised and the high tolerance they're trying to show to every body, I am not saying you're suggesting is wrong, and I am sure you're a nice person, but this simply doesn't work. Showing tolerance to intolerance isn't going to solve problems, it creates them. 

The left needs a wake up and needs to remember that de-christianising the west was a long-term process that included ridiculing and criticising religions and religious people at every turn, this sounds mean and horrible, but it's important to remember that religions criticises us at every turn as well, way more harshly and downright unreasonably. Kids born into religious families should be exposed to a culture that has normalised criticising their beliefs, just the way religions has normalising criticising liberal values, this makes their critical thinking centres less subjected to brainwashing as it keeps a narrow window open to understand that not everything they're being taught is true. We'll never have that in Saudi, but we should never allow their ideology to fester in our communities in the name of tolerance and being civil. 

On the other hand, acknowledging that we can't eliminate LGBT-phobia in Saudi, we should open proper immigration channels to the LGBT communities living under oppression, and it would a step in the right direction of regulating immigration in the west. 

This is really bad in the UK. You have left wing people here who genuinely argue things like Muslims not having a homophobia problem despite all the evidence to the contrary and it's infuriating seeing a backwards ideology spreading here and people defending it and attacking those who speak out against it.

Yeah, the modern left has few blind spots that don't make sense, this includes the homophobia coming from a certain religion, it also includes not wanting to have nuanced discussions about  the trans community issues, and the refusal to acknowledge or discuss the problems that open unregulated immigration can cause. 

To your point about Islam and its genuine homophobia problem, look at this recent story: 

Tory mayor resigns after apologising for attending LGBTQ+ event

A Conservative mayor has resigned after being labelled homophobic when he apologised for attending a council LGBTQ+ Pride event because it “contradicts” his beliefs.

Mohammed Nazam, the mayor of Keighley in West Yorkshire, faced anger after posting in a Facebook group that it was a “lapse of judgment” to attend the raising of a progress flag on Friday as part of the town’s Pride month celebrations.

In the post, he said he “wholeheartedly apologised” for attending the ceremony as it “contradicts my personal religious beliefs”. He added: “I want to emphasise that I have also personally repented for this error and reflected deeply on the consequences of my actions.”

In a statement following his resignation, he said he had meant no harm to LGBTQ+ people but refused to back down, saying “all elected Muslim representatives” would have needed to apologise to the Muslim community for attending such an event.

He said: “I attended the flag raising for LGBTQ community. This did not conform to my religious beliefs and hence I offered an apology to the Muslim community. All elected Muslim representatives would be in the same position.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/19/tory-mayor-resigns-after-apologising-for-attending-lgbtq-event

These crazy stories happen all the time, they're just not covered as widely and they don't lead to much "outrage" so they don't become popular. The Guardian usually ignores them, for example, they wouldn't touch the story of the autistic 14 year old boy who was expelled from school for literally getting the Quran scratched, the story is a national scandal. I don't want to give the right wing media outlets that covered the clicks but you can look it up.

A shame really, all this "avoidance" leads to is that people end up consuming the same stories but from a right wing perspective. This is coming from someone who PAYS monthly subscriptions to leftist independent media outlets (and only leftist channels), but even those independent political commentators/journalists won't touch these stories.

I understand the intent behind this "avoidance" is genuinely born out of the need to be tolerant and respectful, but it's damaging long-term imo. 



Norion on 17 July 2023
LurkerJ said:
Norion said:

This is really bad in the UK. You have left wing people here who genuinely argue things like Muslims not having a homophobia problem despite all the evidence to the contrary and it's infuriating seeing a backwards ideology spreading here and people defending it and attacking those who speak out against it.

Yeah, the modern left has few blind spots that don't make sense, this includes the homophobia coming from a certain religion, it also includes not wanting to have nuanced discussions about  the trans community issues, and the refusal to acknowledge or discuss the problems that open unregulated immigration can cause. 

To your point about Islam and its genuine homophobia problem, look at this recent story: 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/19/tory-mayor-resigns-after-apologising-for-attending-lgbtq-event

These crazy stories happen all the time, they're just not covered as widely and they don't lead to much "outrage" so they don't become popular. The Guardian usually ignores them, for example, they wouldn't touch the story of the autistic 14 year old boy who was expelled from school for literally getting the Quran scratched, the story is a national scandal. I don't want to give the right wing media outlets that covered the clicks but you can look it up.

A shame really, all this "avoidance" leads to is that people end up consuming the same stories but from a right wing perspective. This is coming from someone who PAYS monthly subscriptions to leftist independent media outlets (and only leftist channels), but even those independent political commentators/journalists won't touch these stories.

I understand the intent behind this "avoidance" is genuinely born out of the need to be tolerant and respectful, but it's damaging long-term imo. 

Blind spots like that and the increasing amount of hateful rhetoric is a huge turn off for sure. In regards to those stories it's not as bad here in Scotland thankfully but things are on a bad path currently. Eventually kids here raised by Muslim parents should start leaving the religion in huge numbers after they grow up like what has happened to kids raised by Christian parents but the path to get there will be a lot more difficult than necessary if the horrendous culture surrounding this doesn't change soon.

Also as a gay man I cannot stand people acting like they're on my side but then throwing me under the bus to placate homophobes and that is unfortunately a far too common sight. I wish more people were willing to stand up to both Christianity and Islam but most only do that for one while defending the other which makes things really annoying when you're opposed to religion.