psychicscubadiver said:
mZuzek said:
I guess there's no point in arguing, anyway. There is no valid criticism one can have of this movie, because the counter-argument is always "well I enjoyed it, so you're wrong". It's gone way past the point where you can look at it objectively. |
Not really, because all of your complaints are subjective too. The licensed songs worked fine, the character arcs are understated but there as Mario has consistently wanted to be a success despite experiencing failure after failure, making the ad scene work well and Luigi has struggled with being a coward the whole movie but finds the courage to save his brother. Bowser got the super star specifically to impress Peach not seeming to care about its power except as a means to get her to like him. Not all of the jokes are winners, but most are funny and those that aren't pass harmlessly rather than being cringeworthy.
But go on and tell me 'I didn't enjoy it, so you're wrong' lol. |
This whole discussion made me try to think of a movie where I found myself on the other side of the argument.
So when I was going to watch Godzilla: King of the Monsters, all I was really hoping for was cool monster fights. I left the theater happy, because I got cool monster fights and the monsters had distinct personalities and were very cool. I enjoyed the movie, but the critics didn't. They were all talking about how bad the plot was, and how often characters would make absolutely nonsensical decisions. You know, they weren't wrong, the movie didn't excel at storytelling. But even if the story sucked, I still enjoyed it because every bizarre turn it took was obviously done to lead to more monster fights, and those were what I was there for. Was I wrong for enjoying a movie for shallow reasons? No. Were the critics wrong for criticizing things they thought the movie got wrong? No.
No one's wrong to like or dislike anything. But we all have our reasons. You shouldn't base your opinion on other people's. But even if you disagree with other people, they're still people and they probably have a point. It's possible to understand someone else's points, disagree with them, explain why you disagree. And it's possible for that someone else to understand your reason for disagreeing with them.
haxxiy said:
mZuzek said:
The worst offender probably being the countless forced jokes we've seen in hundreds of children's movies before.
Licensed music was awful too, they went for the most obvious songs, instead of choosing what fits the movie.
Outside of that, yeah, it's just not enough character work in there.
I don't see how the Super Star changes anything about Bowser or his army or anything. It's literally pointless.
It's got tons of fan service and it's generally accurate to the games. With the exception of everything involving the Kongs. |
I mean, almost all of what you said you could apply verbatim to Guardians of the Galaxy, which I assume you enjoy based in your avatar. If anything I felt like the movie was played surprisingly straight with most jokes being contextual instead of the more forced Marvel/Disney stuff. The songs except for one were also 80s songs, which fit a Mario movie. Maybe the movie simply wasn't your thing. Most people seem to have enjoyed it. |
Of course I enjoy Guardians of the Galaxy, that's no secret to anyone. Both films are among my all-time favorites.
You're free to think those criticisms apply to Guardians, but I disagree quite heavily. The humor in those movies usually works rather well for me, and most of it is done in a way that serves the story or makes us understand the characters better. That said, there are a few jokes that don't land and an occasional few that feel forced or overdone, mostly in Vol. 2. I feel this is the main reason why many people don't enjoy Vol. 2 as much.
As for the licensed music, that's a hot take if you think the way it's used is comparable to the Mario movie. Again all of it is there to serve the story - the movies are about a human who grew up on Earth but had that taken away from him, so the music his mother left him is all he's got left of his childhood. All the songs are used for very specific reasons that fit each scene, and they're never the obvious songs that you hear in a dozen other movies each year.
As far as the Mario movie goes, the music doesn't always fit the scene, any meaning they have to what's going on is very shallow, and they are excessively obvious, like for crying out loud it wasn't even a month ago that another videogame-related movie had Holding Out For a Hero. I don't see why the songs being from the 80's "fits" the Mario movie, what, because Mario games started coming out in the 80's? That still has nothing to do with what Mario as a character or franchise is about. No one thinks of Take On Me when they think of Mario, regardless of both hailing from the same decade.
Anyways. Character work is Guardians' biggest strength and main reason why I love those movies. Both films do a remarkable job of giving deep and meaningful arcs to a wide array of characters. Over the course of the two films, nearly every character changes significantly, honestly if you didn't see that I'm inclined to believe you either didn't watch both movies, or just didn't pay enough attention. All the characters are portrayed in a believable way, they are written excellently, and the actors do a great job in their roles. Actually this goes beyond Guardians, it's a James Gunn thing. Everything he writes and directs has great characters with relatable issues, believable behaviour, and deep arcs. Well, that's my opinion anyway.
Overall storytelling, eh. The plot in the first Guardians film is very basic. Then the second movie is completely character-driven. Vol. 1's story works for me because the characters make it fun. Vol. 2's story is all them, no external conflict or macguffin or whatever, everything that happens happens because of who these people are, and their actions lead to consequences that make them learn about themselves and change for the better. So of course I think it's great. Neither film has an intricate plot, so that's a criticism you could make, but personally I prefer character-driven stories.
And lastly, the fan service part... Well if you apply that criticism to Guardians, essentially it'd be asking how well the movie adapts the comics. And if that's the criteria, then the Guardians movies are very bad at fan service. They have tons of references to the comics, sure, but everything from the characters to the stories has been changed dramatically to fit whatever James Gunn wanted to do with them. If I was a fan of the comics, I probably wouldn't be a fan of the movies. Not the case for me though.
You're free to disagree with everything I said, of course.
The Mario movie certainly wasn't my thing. It was lacking in nearly every department I consider important for a film. I'm a little surprised it wasn't at least a little more competent in those aspects, but I'm not surprised that most people enjoyed it anyway. And they're not wrong to enjoy a movie for giving them what they want. Just wrong to block out any criticism as if the movie was the holy grail.
