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On the topic of horseshoe theory.
I do see factions of leftists making puritanical arguments against the sexual revolution all the time. Even wanting to get sex, nudity, and romance out of media. So, I absolutely believe in horseshoe theory and consider all of these puritanical factions to be ideological enemies of freedom of expression.

If Paul Verhoeven-like films aren’t being made anymore, then there’s a problem. His films have always been controversial, but that was the beauty of the 80s and 90s - controversial media was permitted, and widely distributed without having to worry about being extinguished by the puritanical movements. Now even streaming services are falling victim.

I don’t generally fashion myself a slippery slope thinker, so five to ten years down the road, I don’t want to ask the question of how long until new films featuring nudity and sex will only be viewable on sites like pornhub?



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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Wanna hear one of the worst songs ever made?



She should take RNC funds for her aspiring music career.

She could be the next Taylor Swift!!!

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 29 March 2024

Ryuu96 said:

She should take RNC funds for her aspiring music career.

She could be the next Taylor Swift!!!

Please, no. Because then the NFL would rig the games to make the New England Patriots win the Super Bowl.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV will outsell Super Smash Bros. Brawl. I was wrong.

Jumpin said:

On the topic of horseshoe theory.
I do see factions of leftists making puritanical arguments against the sexual revolution all the time. Even wanting to get sex, nudity, and romance out of media. So, I absolutely believe in horseshoe theory and consider all of these puritanical factions to be ideological enemies of freedom of expression.

If Paul Verhoeven-like films aren’t being made anymore, then there’s a problem. His films have always been controversial, but that was the beauty of the 80s and 90s - controversial media was permitted, and widely distributed without having to worry about being extinguished by the puritanical movements. Now even streaming services are falling victim.

I don’t generally fashion myself a slippery slope thinker, so five to ten years down the road, I don’t want to ask the question of how long until new films featuring nudity and sex will only be viewable on sites like pornhub?

What the hell are you rambling about? 



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

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Jumpin said:

If Paul Verhoeven-like films aren't being made anymore, then there's a problem. His films have always been controversial, but that was the beauty of the 80s and 90s - controversial media was permitted, and widely distributed without having to worry about being extinguished by the puritanical movements. Now even streaming services are falling victim.

What do you think couldn't be done about Verhoeven films today? Like, the social commentary? Social commentary is in everything these days. The violence? Verhoeven's violence was a bit cartoony which we don't really see much anymore, but thats because movies have generally moved towards realism, not because they moved away from violence. The nudity? Poor Things was criticized for being "pornographic" and that won several Oscars.



Jumpin said:

On the topic of horseshoe theory.
I do see factions of leftists making puritanical arguments against the sexual revolution all the time. Even wanting to get sex, nudity, and romance out of media. So, I absolutely believe in horseshoe theory and consider all of these puritanical factions to be ideological enemies of freedom of expression.

If Paul Verhoeven-like films aren’t being made anymore, then there’s a problem. His films have always been controversial, but that was the beauty of the 80s and 90s - controversial media was permitted, and widely distributed without having to worry about being extinguished by the puritanical movements. Now even streaming services are falling victim.

I don’t generally fashion myself a slippery slope thinker, so five to ten years down the road, I don’t want to ask the question of how long until new films featuring nudity and sex will only be viewable on sites like pornhub?

And conservatives across the south are legislating against PornHub. 

Honestly, there are things on film and TV today that you could never have gotten away with in the 1980s. "Controversial" media was fought against at every turn. Terry Rakolta, the aunt of Ronna McDaniel, was infamous for campaigning against the advertisers of Married With Children in an effort to pressure the network to take it off of TV. 

Other than some racial and sexual tropes that are considered taboo nowadays, I don't see much in 80's movies that you couldn't make today. I mean, you're not going to have a movie like Revenge of the Nerds where the "hero" uses a mask to trick the female lead into sleeping with him instead of her boyfriend (which is considered a consent issue and is classified as rape by deception in many jurisdictions), but was there really a burning need for that kind of content?

Last edited by SanAndreasX - on 29 March 2024

sundin13 said:
Jumpin said:

If Paul Verhoeven-like films aren't being made anymore, then there's a problem. His films have always been controversial, but that was the beauty of the 80s and 90s - controversial media was permitted, and widely distributed without having to worry about being extinguished by the puritanical movements. Now even streaming services are falling victim.

What do you think couldn't be done about Verhoeven films today? Like, the social commentary? Social commentary is in everything these days. The violence? Verhoeven's violence was a bit cartoony which we don't really see much anymore, but thats because movies have generally moved towards realism, not because they moved away from violence. The nudity? Poor Things was criticized for being "pornographic" and that won several Oscars.

Perhaps if you didn't edit stuff out of my post, you'd have known my main point is that horseshoe theory has proven true, and there are a lot of puritanical leftists now on top of the puritanical right. You also would have caught which elements of Verhoeven films I was referring to. Instead, you made this about me somehow thinking that Paul Verhoeven films couldn't be done today, which isn't what I said. You'd have also picked up that I was exaggerating when I said they aren't being made today if you (again) didn't edit that part out of my post before responding, this line: "I don't generally fashion myself a slippery slope thinker, so five to ten years down the road, I don't want to ask the question of how long until new films featuring nudity and sex will only be viewable on sites like pornhub?" The trends of less sex and nudity are obvious (outside of horror and indie dark comedy flicks). Streaming picked up the slack and had a golden age in the 2010s, but in the past few years there has been a rapid decline of all these things.

I wouldn't say the points your trying to make about Verhoeven vs today's cinema are accurate either. Paul Verhoeven is hyperbolic, yes; visceral, yes. But saying he's cartoony and this isn't around anymore, and that films today are all about realism, doesn't reflect reality. The current top 4 films are a Ghostbusters film, a Dune film, a Godzilla vs King Kong film, and Kung Fu Panda.

OK, I'll give you the Mars atmosphere (from Total Recall) and the Ed 209 scenes :D

Still fun :D

His inspiration is the childhood experiences of wandering around during WW2 and the aftermath, where he saw a lot of sexual stuff and extreme violence.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:
sundin13 said:

What do you think couldn't be done about Verhoeven films today? Like, the social commentary? Social commentary is in everything these days. The violence? Verhoeven's violence was a bit cartoony which we don't really see much anymore, but thats because movies have generally moved towards realism, not because they moved away from violence. The nudity? Poor Things was criticized for being "pornographic" and that won several Oscars.

Perhaps if you didn't edit stuff out of my post, you'd have known my main point is that horseshoe theory has proven true, and there are a lot of puritanical leftists now on top of the puritanical right. You also would have caught which elements of Verhoeven films I was referring to. Instead, you made this about me somehow thinking that Paul Verhoeven films couldn't be done today, which isn't what I said. You'd have also picked up that I was exaggerating when I said they aren't being made today if you (again) didn't edit that part out of my post before responding, this line: "I don't generally fashion myself a slippery slope thinker, so five to ten years down the road, I don't want to ask the question of how long until new films featuring nudity and sex will only be viewable on sites like pornhub?" The trends of less sex and nudity are obvious (outside of horror and indie dark comedy flicks). Streaming picked up the slack and had a golden age in the 2010s, but in the past few years there has been a rapid decline of all these things.

I wouldn't say the points your trying to make about Verhoeven vs today's cinema are accurate either. Paul Verhoeven is hyperbolic, yes; visceral, yes. But saying he's cartoony and this isn't around anymore, and that films today are all about realism, doesn't reflect reality. The current top 4 films are a Ghostbusters film, a Dune film, a Godzilla vs King Kong film, and Kung Fu Panda.

OK, I'll give you the Mars atmosphere (from Total Recall) and the Ed 209 scenes :D

Still fun :D

His inspiration is the childhood experiences of wandering around during WW2 and the aftermath, where he saw a lot of sexual stuff and extreme violence.

Horseshoe theory is proven true because of your anecdotal evidence of some people on the left not liking sex/nudity/violence in media? Can you provide data showing that this is a growing trend or happening in substantial numbers or has anything to do with their political ideology?

Can you even provide evidence that there is a decline in sex/nudity/violence in media? This is something that I have not noticed at all and would argue it has become more common.

Also, what does this have to do with horseshoe theory? It’s like saying that a lot of left wingers have been fans of anime for decades and in the last few years right wingers have begun to watch anime, therefore horseshoe theory is true!


Until we see people on the far left and far right agree on major issues, I’m going to call bullshit on horseshoe theory.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Jumpin said:
sundin13 said:

What do you think couldn't be done about Verhoeven films today? Like, the social commentary? Social commentary is in everything these days. The violence? Verhoeven's violence was a bit cartoony which we don't really see much anymore, but thats because movies have generally moved towards realism, not because they moved away from violence. The nudity? Poor Things was criticized for being "pornographic" and that won several Oscars.

Perhaps if you didn't edit stuff out of my post, you'd have known my main point is that horseshoe theory has proven true, and there are a lot of puritanical leftists now on top of the puritanical right. You also would have caught which elements of Verhoeven films I was referring to. Instead, you made this about me somehow thinking that Paul Verhoeven films couldn't be done today, which isn't what I said. You'd have also picked up that I was exaggerating when I said they aren't being made today if you (again) didn't edit that part out of my post before responding, this line: "I don't generally fashion myself a slippery slope thinker, so five to ten years down the road, I don't want to ask the question of how long until new films featuring nudity and sex will only be viewable on sites like pornhub?" The trends of less sex and nudity are obvious (outside of horror and indie dark comedy flicks). Streaming picked up the slack and had a golden age in the 2010s, but in the past few years there has been a rapid decline of all these things.

I wouldn't say the points your trying to make about Verhoeven vs today's cinema are accurate either. Paul Verhoeven is hyperbolic, yes; visceral, yes. But saying he's cartoony and this isn't around anymore, and that films today are all about realism, doesn't reflect reality. The current top 4 films are a Ghostbusters film, a Dune film, a Godzilla vs King Kong film, and Kung Fu Panda.

OK, I'll give you the Mars atmosphere (from Total Recall) and the Ed 209 scenes :D

Still fun :D

His inspiration is the childhood experiences of wandering around during WW2 and the aftermath, where he saw a lot of sexual stuff and extreme violence.

I read the rest of your post, I just trimmed it to make it clear what I was responding to. If you didn't mean Verhoeven films couldn't be made today, then perhaps I misunderstood the meaning of sentences like "controversial media was permitted, and widely distributed without having to worry about being extinguished by the puritanical movements". Make of that what you will. 

Again, I just fail to see much proof that the changes in cinema are due to puritanical pressures. Art changes. It always has. It seems to me that money and expanding audiences is the primary driver for much of these changes, not loud puritans. 

I also want to talk real quick about realism in film, though this is mostly just a tangent. This doesn't mean that there is no sci-fi or fantasy, it largely speaks to how these types of things are done. Think of the opposite of "realism" something like "cartoonishness", not "fantasy". The predominant form of acting nowadays is very naturalistic. Emotions are more subtle and they aren't as blown up and inherently readable. Same with line delivery. You often hear people speaking more like they would in regular conversation (often mumbling or talking over each other or just using ever day vocabulary and speaking styles), and less like they would on a stage or in golden age cinema. The only movie that I've seen of those four is Dune, but I would argue that it is pretty realistic in the sense I am speaking. It is much more grounded and naturalistic than Dune 1984 (and also a much, much better movie). While the setting is unique and there are fantasy elements, how people interact is much more in line with how I'd expect people to act in a Noah Baumbach movie than a Verhoeven movie.