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Forums - Gaming - Does the Steam Deck REALLY Destroy the Switch?

Kyuu said:

Actually he did try to interact before and it usually didn't go well for him, often deservedly, but he made a villain out of himself and now it's just trendy to attack, make fun of, and strawman him regardless of the validity of his arguments. I wouldn't interact if I were him either, because doing so would just lead to more strawman arguments and it turns into an endless and aimless debate.

I think the only glaring flaw in his video is blaming Switch's popularity advantage mainly on brand power. The rest of his video is fine... anyone bringing up the Vita and old handhelds as some sort of rebuttal are in no position to ridicule him.

He certainly did start an interesting discussion this time though, credit where it's due!

I'm not going to deny that he does make some flippant bait-like content, but at the same time, this site has always fallen back on trendy attacks. Ever since I joined this site years ago, it was super trendy to attack Xbox and PC, yes there was some Nintendo and Sony attacks in there for sure, but I saw the attacks on the former two way more.

We still have people in this very thread who don't care to google what PC offers, so we have to have a user like Conina to point things out via actual data, which the former group hardly bothers to use to begin with, because it's either on purpose ignorance, or they just don't care, but still want to say something to feel like they are contributing to the thread. 

Personally I think he should just refrain from making any sort of content geared towards or about Nintendo, because it almost always ends in failure and heated discussions. He could just make a video just about the Steam Deck and what it has to offer, instead of comparing it to Switch sales, which doesn't really do anything for the Deck, and just serves to rile up Nintendo fans. 



Mankind, in its arrogance and self-delusion, must believe they are the mirrors to God in both their image and their power. If something shatters that mirror, then it must be totally destroyed.

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Chrkeller said:

So if I own Disney movies on DVD I don't have to pay for Disney+ I can just "legally" make digital versions... sure.

Exactly, you can!

Disney Plus is a subscription to... Disney Plus. You can extract the files from your DVD and play it on your PC, smartphone or whatever device you want

Disneyplus existence does not mean it's illegal to own a digital file from Disney movies either

What is illegal is to download a movie that you haven't paid for in first place 

A law can only be enforced if said law exists, there is not law prohibiting emulation, because a emulation is a piece of software, it's not illegal having a personal device to run media. In my country is actually explicitly 

This have no correlation with you trespassing speed limit in traffic, because there is a law clearly saying you are forbid to do so

Indeed, Europe is even starting to revise regulations to forbid mobile manufacturers to lock downloadble software from a single store which, of course, means that lawmakers already understand it's illegal to abide software to a specific piece of hardware 



zero129 said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

If there is no law prohibiting, it's legal. It's companies who brainwashed gamers to believe it's illegal, they understand they stand for no legal ground to forbid emulation.

Microsoft indeed stopped pretending emulation is illegal for a while: https://www.eurogamer.net/emulation-should-be-used-to-preserve-older-games-xbox-chief-phil-spencer-suggests

What is illegal is not owning a legal copy, but if you have a physical game you are allowed to do whatever you want with the source code as long you don't go against copyright laws. If you developed your own console, building it part by part and then played your copy, would it be illegal ? 

Best thing is always when someone says its illegal to play your own games in whatever way you want. They can never give an example of how its illegal just the "Well i think its illegal so it is" line.

Not really, I just know there is no moving pirates from their stance.  When a person buys a game they are buying a license, not ownership of the code.  Really that simple.



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zero129 said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

If there is no law prohibiting, it's legal. It's companies who brainwashed gamers to believe it's illegal, they understand they stand for no legal ground to forbid emulation.

Microsoft indeed stopped pretending emulation is illegal for a while: https://www.eurogamer.net/emulation-should-be-used-to-preserve-older-games-xbox-chief-phil-spencer-suggests

What is illegal is not owning a legal copy, but if you have a physical game you are allowed to do whatever you want with the source code as long you don't go against copyright laws. If you developed your own console, building it part by part and then played your copy, would it be illegal ? 

Best thing is always when someone says its illegal to play your own games in whatever way you want. They can never give an example of how its illegal just the "Well i think its illegal so it is" line.

I understand not using emulation because of the hurdle of extracting the files and creating roms (I believe it's easier if you use Switch SSD cards, because you can copy the files to your computer, but I'm not sure if they run on emulators because I never used them)

But there is a quite big difference between laborious and illegal

The only reason why this is barely discussed online is because console makers controll the narrative and shut downs any website that try to teach how run games legally on emulators

The obvious endgame is to resell old games on newer hardware. If everyone just have learned how to upload their games on their PCs and connect their controllers to play said games console makers would be in serious jeopardy as:

- No more overpriced remasters to sell and shorten software droughts due to high development costs in money and time 

- No more double dipping and upgrading hardware would be completely down to personal will instead of market pressure 

- Even less reason to buy their middling functional hardware

- Thereafter, third parties will largely prioritize PC releases over consoles, as anybody would be playing on PCs anyway, with many skipping consoles entirely  

It's good for console makers to customers to be as ignorant as possible. What makes me perplex is some people still purposefully choosing to not acknowledge this. Well, that's on them 



Chrkeller said:
zero129 said:

Best thing is always when someone says its illegal to play your own games in whatever way you want. They can never give an example of how its illegal just the "Well i think its illegal so it is" line.

Not really, I just know there is no moving pirates from their stance.  When a person buys a game they are buying a license, not ownership of the code.  Really that simple.

We actually have the ownership of the code for domestic use. You are fundamentally saying when you buy a PC you don't have ownership of the pieces, only a license to use the fully functional PC. You can't change its SO or upgrade screen or anything, because you aren't the owner of the product, only someone allowed to use it

If this was the case, even resseling games would be illegal. It's bogus



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IcaroRibeiro said:
Chrkeller said:

Not really, I just know there is no moving pirates from their stance.  When a person buys a game they are buying a license, not ownership of the code.  Really that simple.

We actually have the ownership of the code for domestic use. You are fundamentally saying when you buy a PC you don't have ownership of the pieces, only a license to use the fully functional PC. You can't change its SO or upgrade screen or anything, because you aren't the owner of the product, only someone allowed to use it

If this was the case, even resseling games would be illegal. It's bogus

Software and hardware aren't the same thing, swing and a miss.  And no, you don't own the code when you buy a game.  Look you can continue to say whatever you want, I'm not debating it all day.  Simply put, you are wrong.



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Chrkeller said:
zero129 said:

Best thing is always when someone says its illegal to play your own games in whatever way you want. They can never give an example of how its illegal just the "Well i think its illegal so it is" line.

Not really, I just know there is no moving pirates from their stance.  When a person buys a game they are buying a license, not ownership of the code.  Really that simple.

In general in most countries it is legal to do with a copy you bought, as long as you don't redistribute. That includes converting the format. So yes, making a digital copy from your DVD or BluRay is legal in most of the world. Making backup-copies of software as well. Now in some countries companies have pushed to restrict consumer rights. The most common is to not allow breaking "copy" protection. Most of this copy protection is hot air anyways, so you don't really do anything strong, but putting some copy protection in name on a medium might in some countries give you the right to restrict users by not allowing to convert the format. Such clauses are difficult to lawfully defend though and are usually not punished the same as actual piracy.



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Chrkeller said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

We actually have the ownership of the code for domestic use. You are fundamentally saying when you buy a PC you don't have ownership of the pieces, only a license to use the fully functional PC. You can't change its SO or upgrade screen or anything, because you aren't the owner of the product, only someone allowed to use it

If this was the case, even resseling games would be illegal. It's bogus

Software and hardware aren't the same thing, swing and a miss.  And no, you don't own the code when you buy a game.  Look you can continue to say whatever you want, I'm not debating it all day.  Simply put, you are wrong.

So please enlight me what is the difference exactly 



According to the agreement that you agree to every single time you buy a game on Steam, "the Content and Services are licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Content and Services." You're not buying the games, you're buying the license to use them.

Nintendo:

"The Software is licensed, not sold, to you solely for your personal, noncommercial use on the Console. You may not publish, copy, modify, reverse engineer, lease, rent, decompile, disassemble, distribute, offer for sale, or create derivative works of any portion of the Software"

There is a reason why Nintendo is able to shut down YouTube channels.  

And to be clear, I am looking at getting a Steam Deck, with the intent of grabbing some emulations.  But I'm not going to sugar coat it, technically it isn't legal.  I just don't care.  Largely because I don't anticipate anything being enforced.

I know back in the day I had software that converted my physical movies to digital, it was shut down for being in violation of law.  



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RTX 4090 Ventus 3x E OC

Switch OLED

Chrkeller said:

According to the agreement that you agree to every single time you buy a game on Steam, "the Content and Services are licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Content and Services." You're not buying the games, you're buying the license to use them.

Nintendo:

"The Software is licensed, not sold, to you solely for your personal, noncommercial use on the Console. You may not publish, copy, modify, reverse engineer, lease, rent, decompile, disassemble, distribute, offer for sale, or create derivative works of any portion of the Software"

There is a reason why Nintendo is able to shut down YouTube channels.  

And to be clear, I am looking at getting a Steam Deck, with the intent of grabbing some emulations.  But I'm not going to sugar coat it, technically it isn't legal.  I just don't care.  Largely because I don't anticipate anything being enforced.

I know back in the day I had software that converted my physical movies to digital, it was shut down for being in violation of law.  

Nintendo is shutting down YT channels because they violate copyright laws, which means people are distributing their content online which is illegal 

About Nintend license agreement, are you aware mutual agreements can have no legal basis whatsoever, right? I don't how USA laws works in that matter, but in Brazil unless it's strictly stated by law that an agreement for purchasing, services or working relations can be defined by a mutual agreement that said agreement has no value even if both parties consent. For instance, until working laws were revised 5 years ago, it was forbid for workers to negotiate less then 1 hour launch break (in a 40 hours long workday or bigger) even if there was a mutual interest for this worker to have only a 30 minutes break 

And even now laws allow you to negotiate your launch break, you can go back to justice anytime and makes the standard law to be enforced, nullifying the contract-specific agreement without any legal loss. This is because Brazilian laws understand employees (and as extension customers too) as the weak side in socioeconomic relationships 

In this sense, a license agreement where you can't copy and upload or digital movies, books or music in cloud storage has the same value as... nothing. No company can prosecute someone in Brazil for violation copyright laws because you aren't violation copyright laws at all