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Forums - Sony Discussion - Playstation being American-ised is bad for the market, I think

Hiku said:
PullusPardus said:

its already pushing japanese devs away to go to Nintendo,

I'm guessing you're talking about a handful of games that were censored for various reasons?  Though I'm not sure I recall that resulted in anyone moving away from Sony? At least not anything that seemed significant.

I wouldn't say pushing away or moving away and that is the point - how to judge these changes that are happening. What is happening is the following: In the past a lot of japanese developed games were Playstation only, especially the smaller ones, Visual novels, JRPGs, stuff like that. In recent times this has basically stopped. Barely any japanese game is PS-exclusive these days, they all are also releasing on PC, Xbox and/or Switch. Now, some like Pullus here judge this as a move away, but practically speaking basically no game has left the PS-environment. Yet even without them really gone, we have to acknowledge that a shift has happened.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

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Kyuu said:

4. Losing the grip on 3rd party "exclusives" is a natural development that will only help Sony become more self-reliant and ultimately much bigger. Their acquisitions won't stop either.

I feel like this could be an important point - or not. Depends on Sony, if they grab this chance. Something similar has happened to Nintendo in the N64- and Gamecube-era. As they couldn't rely on 3rd-parties as much anymore, they started to focus more on 1st-party output, especially in diversifying their games. I know, many say Wii only had minigames, but actually that were mostly 3rd-parties. Nintendo itself delivered a more varied selection, but many 3rd-parties kneeled deep into the mini-games and motion control. And well, they had success to some extend, Cooking Mama and especially Just Dance worked commercially.

So yeah, Sony might do similarly and focus on expanding and diversifying their 1st-party output.

Last edited by Mnementh - on 28 July 2022

3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year] [+], [1], [2], [3], [4]

Hiku said:
PullusPardus said:

its already pushing japanese devs away to go to Nintendo,

I'm guessing you're talking about a handful of games that were censored for various reasons?  Though I'm not sure I recall that resulted in anyone moving away from Sony? At least not anything that seemed significant.

Generally speaking, a lot of Japanese franchises have grown exponentially after breaking through in the west, to the point where they sell more overseas than they did in Japan.
Even very Japanese-style titles like Persona 5, Yakuza 0 and Nier: Automata.

I don't really understand why you're saying "Sony won't survive with just their exclusives". Not only because of the insinuation that they're porting things to Steam because they're in some sort of trouble, when they began doing that at the height of PS4's success.
But because Playstation has always mainly been about it's third party library. If you don't like the first party offering, that's no problem. You can play Resident Evil, Tekken, Final Fantasy, or whatever floats your boat.

If a high profile Japanese title gets an announcement trailer, we always expect the Playstation logo to appear at the end (unless someone bought the exclusivity) because it always has.

From what we know games that are skipping PS due to the censorship are very niche that have very little sales even inside japan much less outside, lewd games with content that outside of japan are almost considered criminal.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Hiku said:
Mnementh said:

I feel like this could be an important point - or not. Depends on Sony, if they grab this chance. Something similar has happened to Nintendo in the N64- and Gamecube-era. As they couldn't rely on 3rd-parties as much anymore, they started to focus more on 1st-party output, especially in diversifying their games. I know, many say Wii only had minigames, but actually that were mostly 3rd-parties. Nintendo itself delivered a more varied selection, but many 3rd-parties kneeled deep into the mini-games and motion control. And well, they had success to some extend, Cooking Mama and especially Just Dance worked commercially.

So yeah, Sony might do similarly and focus on expanding and diversifying their 1st-party output.

I went over this a bit in my previous post, but I wanted to focus on the OP regarding "Americanization" there.

But to add to what Kyuu said, if one system holds the vast majority of third party exclusives without paying for them, but as a result of the other platforms being unattractive to the publisher, then once those platforms stop being unappealing, the natural thing that should happen is that those games are released on all systems.

This doesn't necessarily mean that Sony did something wrong, or that Nintendo and Xbox did something exceptional. But that Nintendo and Xbox managed to go from unappealing, to appealing.
Which should be expected. But obviously Nintendo likes to do their own unique thing, which has made this difficult. While Xbox had the challenge of entering the market last, etc.


As for whether Sony will use this opportunity to make more diverse games of their own, I don't think so.
At least that they got rid of their Japanese games studio suggests they're going in the opposite direction. And unlike what happened between SNES and N64, Playstation still gets pretty much all those games unless some other platform paid for exclusivity. And I think they are content with that on top of their own first party games. Personally I would like to see them do something like bringing back Wild Arms, but I just don't think so unfortunately.

Sony said they wanted to compliment the 3rd party offering instead of competing, but that was on PS4 so it may have changed. Considering they have FF, Yakuza and Persona for strong JRPGs on their system plus some smaller one it doesn't seem likely they would go the route of creating or reviving a JRPG.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Kinda late to the party but...I mean, Sony is doing something right. They're the market leader by revenue year after year. But I also have preferences. I'm just not a fan of the types of games Sony makes these days. And I think that's a sentiment a lot of gamers have. That doesn't necessarily mean what Sony is doing is wrong for their business. Sony's current IP slate is selling very well. Sony Japan studios were putting out games that just didn't sell. Developing games isn't a charity. People have to get paid to keep making more games that you like. And unfortunately, for some, those types of experiences aren't of priority for Sony anymore. 3rd parties and Indies now pick up the torch that was dropped by Sony's past 1st party outings.

Personally I'm just not a fan of photorealism and trying to be so close to real life. I just find it very dull. And graphics is usually on the lowest tier of things I look for in a game these days. And to be honest I'm not interested at all in the characters and worlds of most PS 1st party games. But, what Sony is doing isn't a short term win. They are catering to their fanbase the same way Nintendo caters to their fanbase. I think it's fine that different styles of games exist. If it gets more people into gaming, that's all that should matter. Play what you like and don't ever apologize for it. And conversely don't push a narrative that some games are a detriment to the industry. Well...unless the game utilizes Crypto or NFTs, you can blow that shit up to high heaven.






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Don't you know Returnal, Concrete Genie, The Last Guardian, Stackboy, Tearaway, Shadow of the Colossus, Gravity Crash?

All from PlayStation first party studios and they're not American-ised nor overly cinematic and all have very creative gameplay. You could have bought 10M copies of each of them to make them commercially successful in the mass market so that Sony could put more investment in these genres. 



Ljink96 said:

Kinda late to the party but...I mean, Sony is doing something right. They're the market leader by revenue year after year. But I also have preferences. I'm just not a fan of the types of games Sony makes these days. And I think that's a sentiment a lot of gamers have. That doesn't necessarily mean what Sony is doing is wrong for their business. Sony's current IP slate is selling very well. Sony Japan studios were putting out games that just didn't sell. Developing games isn't a charity. People have to get paid to keep making more games that you like. And unfortunately, for some, those types of experiences aren't of priority for Sony anymore. 3rd parties and Indies now pick up the torch that was dropped by Sony's past 1st party outings.

Personally I'm just not a fan of photorealism and trying to be so close to real life. I just find it very dull. And graphics is usually on the lowest tier of things I look for in a game these days. And to be honest I'm not interested at all in the characters and worlds of most PS 1st party games. But, what Sony is doing isn't a short term win. They are catering to their fanbase the same way Nintendo caters to their fanbase. I think it's fine that different styles of games exist. If it gets more people into gaming, that's all that should matter. Play what you like and don't ever apologize for it. And conversely don't push a narrative that some games are a detriment to the industry. Well...unless the game utilizes Crypto or NFTs, you can blow that shit up to high heaven.

Yes, being unhappy or felling left out is perfectly normal. Asking Sony to diversify their output and invest a little more in some genres/devs is also healthy and they need to hear. The mistake (not yours) is thinking Sony is making a mistake on their investment when the numbers clearly show the opposite.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

I think any time anything achieves greatness and then changes its identity, it's a bad thing. So many companies and people and bands etc. do that, and it's never the same. I understand the temptation, especially if the market changes and you're facing the prospect of losing relevance and/or money. But I'm an artist at heart, so I think it's tragic when we loose something iconic like that, or it gets watered down and becomes a shell of what it use to be. I would rather whatever it is retire forever, than to see it flourish as something else. But that's just me. 



JackHandy said:

I think any time anything achieves greatness and then changes its identity, it's a bad thing. So many companies and people and bands etc. do that, and it's never the same. I understand the temptation, especially if the market changes and you're facing the prospect of losing relevance and/or money. But I'm an artist at heart, so I think it's tragic when we loose something iconic like that, or it gets watered down and becomes a shell of what it use to be. I would rather whatever it is retire forever, than to see it flourish as something else. But that's just me. 

Sony is a company not a single artist.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
JackHandy said:

I think any time anything achieves greatness and then changes its identity, it's a bad thing. So many companies and people and bands etc. do that, and it's never the same. I understand the temptation, especially if the market changes and you're facing the prospect of losing relevance and/or money. But I'm an artist at heart, so I think it's tragic when we loose something iconic like that, or it gets watered down and becomes a shell of what it use to be. I would rather whatever it is retire forever, than to see it flourish as something else. But that's just me. 

Sony is a company not a single artist.

Yes, but I'm old, so when I think of Sony in video games, I think crazy Ken and PS1/ PS2. It was a totally different thing.