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Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

drkohler said:
Signalstar said:

Putin is a mad man. Russian aggression must be stopped. Attacks on Ukrainian cities have begun.

I was watching the speech of Joe Biden. I was absolutely horrified of what I saw. An old man who couldn't even give a speech for more than three minutes without starting to mumble and incoherently utter meaningless part-phrases. Is this guy senile?

That was the moment when Putin decided he can go after the Ukraine without fear of any reprisals. Seeing his worst "enemy" on tv with such an absolutely catastrophic performance was the get-go sign.

Now we will see umpteen politicians going on tv declaring "we are with the Ukraine",  "Putin bad guy" and all these blatherings really shows that the West has no guts. I give the Ukraine about 48 hours before their politicians run and the country is in Putin's full control.

And this WAS avoidable, but not with a quasi senile US president. And let's face it, the US would have had to bite the bullet and lead the coward pack (Europeans, all talk, no action).

I don't think this was avoidable, Putler has been building and planning towards this for nearly 10 years.

And I bet he even counted on his toyboy and bitch Donald to be the president of US at this point. If you think Biden's speech is senile rambling, just check out what Trump is tweeting. 

US and EU should be doing more to sanction Russia I agree, but I think Putler has to be surprised how united EU and US seem to be. And they wouldn't be if Trump was the president.



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drkohler said:
Signalstar said:

Putin is a mad man. Russian aggression must be stopped. Attacks on Ukrainian cities have begun.

I was watching the speech of Joe Biden. I was absolutely horrified of what I saw. An old man who couldn't even give a speech for more than three minutes without starting to mumble and incoherently utter meaningless part-phrases. Is this guy senile?

Yeah. He isn't the most eloquent of speakers.

Then again, Trump was the same. - He could never speak surety and would always blame someone else if something went wrong... He would play games.

However... Just because someone has issues with public speaking, doesn't mean their intellectual fortitude is impacted in anyway... I mean. Case in point: Stephen Hawking was one of the smartest people in modern times, yet required the use of electronic aids to express himself.

Either way, Democracy voted for Biden. So Biden is what you got... Time to move on and work with whatever he puts forth.

drkohler said:

That was the moment when Putin decided he can go after the Ukraine without fear of any reprisals. Seeing his worst "enemy" on tv with such an absolutely catastrophic performance was the get-go sign.

Now we will see umpteen politicians going on tv declaring "we are with the Ukraine",  "Putin bad guy" and all these blatherings really shows that the West has no guts. I give the Ukraine about 48 hours before their politicians run and the country is in Putin's full control.

And this WAS avoidable, but not with a quasi senile US president. And let's face it, the US would have had to bite the bullet and lead the coward pack (Europeans, all talk, no action).

To be fair, Trump was Pro-Russia anyway from my view... At-least under the surface. - Besides he really didn't want troops overseas which was a very strong election promise.
So if anything, this would have still occurred, but with far less political opposition.

Could it have been avoidable? Russia does it's own thing... So I would argue no.

The difference today verses 10 years ago however... Is that Russia doesn't actually need the USA or Europe anymore... The West empowered China's economics, which Russia is benefiting from...

Russia has also taken note of the Wests failure to contain China's progress/aggression in the Pacific over the past few decades.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Mar1217 said:

I mean, I don't think I need to point much of the historic parrallels that can be pointed out right now with the current political situation and what was happening in 1930's Europe when Nazi Germany decided to annex Sudetenland and other german speaking territories to further their "Vital Space".

It certainly needs to be treaded carefully but the Occident is in the midst of prolly making the same errors has was done back then by giving Poutin's govern the leeway he needs.

My class essay about the ciclical nature of human history is certainly looking more valid as time goes on sadly ...

This time, however, there are nukes, for better or worse. Worked in the 60s, it'll cool off things again, and sanctions and prolongation of the conflict will be used to exhaust Russia instead. The economy of the country is already setting up for implosion as we speak. Sacrificing that for the revival of the old empire of the Romanov is bonkers, but romantic fantasies of expansionism is exactly what prompted World War II, so Putin's approach to the whole situation is far from surprising. 



My bet with The_Liquid_Laser: I think the Switch won't surpass the PS2 as the best selling system of all time. If it does, I'll play a game of a list that The_Liquid_Laser will provide, I will have to play it for 50 hours or complete it, whatever comes first. 

Mar1217 said:

I mean, I don't think I need to point much of the historic parrallels that can be pointed out right now with the current political situation and what was happening in 1930's Europe when Nazi Germany decided to annex Sudetenland and other german speaking territories to further their "Vital Space".

It certainly needs to be treaded carefully but the Occident is in the midst of prolly making the same errors has was done back then by giving Poutin's govern the leeway he needs.

Hitler didn't have nuclear weapons. If Russia didn't either they wouldn't be invading. Or if Ukraine had them too.

You can bet you'll see many, many countries developing nukes this century.



 

 

 

 

 

As an American I don't mind helping other nations.... but this is a world problem. I don't think 'we' ante up until the rest of the world does as well. We aren't the world's police. Unless other nations want to start paying for our military.



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Chrkeller said:

As an American I don't mind helping other nations.... but this is a world problem. I don't think 'we' ante up until the rest of the world does as well. We aren't the world's police. Unless other nations want to start paying for our military.

The problem is the UN is a joke because the security council has nation(s) on it that will never do the right thing. It was a joke to begin with and is a joke now. So the UN won't send in a peacekeeping force, not that it would do by good even if they did as the Rwanda situation taught us.

And Ukraine isn't in NATO because of at least one country objecting, so they can't help either.

So we either wait on the sidelines until Russia likely takes over and proceeds to invade the other nations that joined NATO since 1997 and China sees our hesitation and invades Taiwan or we do something about it right now.

Either way, the world will blame the USA as usual. We either do too much or too little.

I wish we could go back to an isolationist way, but so many countries don't spend enough money on their defense due to expecting us to deal with their problems. If we sit this out it won't be long before China swallows up most of Asia, Russia does the same to Europe, and Iran and the other Muslim extremist countries try unsuccessfully to wipe out Israel.



Dulfite said:
Chrkeller said:

As an American I don't mind helping other nations.... but this is a world problem. I don't think 'we' ante up until the rest of the world does as well. We aren't the world's police. Unless other nations want to start paying for our military.

The problem is the UN is a joke because the security council has nation(s) on it that will never do the right thing. It was a joke to begin with and is a joke now. So the UN won't send in a peacekeeping force, not that it would do by good even if they did as the Rwanda situation taught us.

And Ukraine isn't in NATO because of at least one country objecting, so they can't help either.

So we either wait on the sidelines until Russia likely takes over and proceeds to invade the other nations that joined NATO since 1997 and China sees our hesitation and invades Taiwan or we do something about it right now.

Either way, the world will blame the USA as usual. We either do too much or too little.

I wish we could go back to an isolationist way, but so many countries don't spend enough money on their defense due to expecting us to deal with their problems. If we sit this out it won't be long before China swallows up most of Asia, Russia does the same to Europe, and Iran and the other Muslim extremist countries try unsuccessfully to wipe out Israel.

Agreed on all points.  UN needs to be a real entity.  Until UN starts functioning properly the world is going to be rough.



Chrkeller said:
Dulfite said:

The problem is the UN is a joke because the security council has nation(s) on it that will never do the right thing. It was a joke to begin with and is a joke now. So the UN won't send in a peacekeeping force, not that it would do by good even if they did as the Rwanda situation taught us.

And Ukraine isn't in NATO because of at least one country objecting, so they can't help either.

So we either wait on the sidelines until Russia likely takes over and proceeds to invade the other nations that joined NATO since 1997 and China sees our hesitation and invades Taiwan or we do something about it right now.

Either way, the world will blame the USA as usual. We either do too much or too little.

I wish we could go back to an isolationist way, but so many countries don't spend enough money on their defense due to expecting us to deal with their problems. If we sit this out it won't be long before China swallows up most of Asia, Russia does the same to Europe, and Iran and the other Muslim extremist countries try unsuccessfully to wipe out Israel.

Agreed on all points.  UN needs to be a real entity.  Until UN starts functioning properly the world is going to be rough.

It never will, that's what happens when you include countries with governments that are terrible. We should just have NATO, change the name to be more world-including, and invite all other allied nations, no matter how big or small, into it, as long as there is no objections. Strengthen NATO and if someone new wants to join they will have to prove themselves through governmental reform if needed before joining. We should stop funding the UN entirely and let NATO carry out humanitarian missions for nations that join. Eventually most nations will be in NATO except for the ones that do terrible things to their own people and those around them, the modern Axis of Evil, like Iran, China, Russia, North Korea, Cuba, etc. They are left out until they reform and if they attack any NATO nations they get a whole lot more than pathetic sanctions to shut them up.

For the record, I hate war and loss of life.



Putin's tactics on Ukraine, especially since the Crimea invasion, wreaks of Hitler's tactics prior to invading Poland. Very in your face, ignoring sanctions and worldwide outcry, taking over strategic land such as the Rhineland, and the western part of Czechoslovakia. Which like how eastern Ukraine is primarily Russians, western Czechoslovakia was primarily Germans. And Hitler's thinking being "this land rightfully belongs to Germany"

I can see Putin having that same viewpoint since Ukraine became independent after the fall of the Soviet Union, and he's now taking back land that he feels rightfully belongs to Russia. Which immediately makes you worry about the other neighboring states that were once part of the Soviet Union as well. There's no reason for this.........



You called down the thunder, now reap the whirlwind

Jaicee said:

Live updates on Russia's "defensive" conquest of all of Ukraine can be found here.

For those just tuning in, Putin has now launched the full-scale invasion of Ukraine proper that the White House had expected to happen last Wednesday. So in other words, he delayed exactly one week to the day and TOTALLY DESTROYED THE AMERICAN NARRATIVE! (/sarcasm)

Putin has either invaded Ukraine or he hasn’t - there is no ‘proper’.