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Forums - Sony Discussion - Should Sony acquire another less expensive developer? Since Square is really in good terms with Sony?

EricHiggin said:

Well the biggest talking point about this acquisition overall seems to be COD and whether or not it'll end up exclusive.

Whether it does or not, if you're EA and Dice right now, with the Battlefield franchise, you'd best be looking to PS for a partnership going forward. If you're PS, you'd best be taking advantage of that, or more.

Now assuming there wouldn't be a buyout or merger between EA and SNY, who knows, is there any chance PS could simply acquire Dice and Battlefield? Would EA let them go?

The Battlefield franchise has not been stellar over the last few games, especially the most recent, so now could be a good time for a business deal. PS could really use something to counter COD, and if they had Dice in house, they could probably help stabilize and grow Battlefield to much better compete with COD.

This way SNY doesn't necessarily need all of EA at $40 billion+, though it's not like that would hurt.

(Owning EA though, would allow SNY to potentially force MS to keep more franchises coming to the PS platform, otherwise everything becomes exclusive.)

Actually just read elsewhere a few comments with a similar idea, but grab Respawn and the Titanfall franchise instead.

I always felt Titanfall was more COD like, besides the Mechs.

Since EA don't seem to care about Titanfall anymore, that could be something they could fairly easily let go. 



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JRPGfan said:
freebs2 said:

Of course I'm against further consolidation but let's entertain the idea.

Japan companies

- Square Enix ($6 billion) doesn't make much sense imo, Sony already has thier full support and "snatching it" wouldn't hurt Xbox in the slightest (Final Fantasy is not what it used to be in the 90s). I mean it could be viable maybe but they would still spend a lot of money and gain very little advantage in return.

Square has so many great IP, and make fantastic RPGs.

FF14, is still the best MMO on the market to this day (~37m players/subs, and ~3,5-4m daily players).
FF15 sold over 10m copies, Also FF16 is right around the corner.
FF7 remake, is in parts....
That will continue to build up, as it get more releases.
Also once its all said and done, I'm sure they ll do a bundle with all the parts in 1 package. It's gonna end up big to (10m+ (for all parts likely)).

There are worse things to spend that much $ on, if your looking to buy someone big.

"Final Fantasy is not what it used to be in the 90s"

When was Square at their heights?
Back when ff7 was out?
FF7 only ended up selling like 13,5 ? million or so (2021).

Overall I think Final Fantasy is selling as much (or more) than it ever was.
Even if perphaps it feels like its impact isnt as large, as it once was.
From a sales perspective, I think even with inflation factored in, they are makeing more now, than ever (both in $ and sales).

Perhaps I've underestimated how big FF14 is.

But I would sill say no, Final Fantasy is not what it was in the 90s. It's true newer games are moving more units, on 3 different platforms, with much larger development and marketing investments, in a market that is several times larger. It's "worth" more than in the 90s but it doesn't have nearly the same "weight".



I don’t understand why many want Sony to buy Square. Because it would be easy perhaps? The problem is that the vast majority of Square’s game sales are already PlayStation players, and Sony already has extensive exclusivity deals in place. Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free, as they say.


Wouldn’t it be wiser to go after an entity with more broad based appeal, that would stop casual user attrition as opposed to just servicing the most hardcore Sony fans?



aTokenYeti said:

I don’t understand why many want Sony to buy Square. Because it would be easy perhaps? The problem is that the vast majority of Square’s game sales are already PlayStation players, and Sony already has extensive exclusivity deals in place. Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free, as they say.


Wouldn’t it be wiser to go after an entity with more broad based appeal, that would stop casual user attrition as opposed to just servicing the most hardcore Sony fans?

It certainly would, assuming these companies and their franchises remain free to continue on PS consoles. Which is more likely than not, but it's not impossible that they get acquired by someone else and end up being withheld or used as bait.

MS at the moment, seems to be strengthening their position more so than hurting SNY. The question is, is that the whole plan, or is the plan to slowly turn up the heat and eventually put a ton of hurt on SNY with acquisitions?

On one hand, lock up the non western devs and pubs before it's potentially too late, since XB greatly lacks those types of games. On the other hand, you can't lose too much of the western market or your profits are going to suffer greatly. There's a reason PS has focused more on the western front over the last decade.

To me SNY should go for EA, TT, or UBI, if they're going to spend a ton of money all in one shot. EA might be too much, but TT should be doable.

SNY could also splurge, but pick and choose and pluck certain dev studios and/or franchises from anywhere, if they could make those deals happen.



All this talk about "panic buying"....sigh.
Sony is growing its developer base slowly but steadily. Only looking at developers that fit and/or complement their existing developer base. That is not going to change, no matter what crazy things MS does. Apart from the fact there is no point in even trying to compete with MS on the monetary level.

MS strategy is just "Buy boatloads front, back, left and right - and hope it sticks". As with this Gamepass thingie, they just throw mass around. Not quality. This seems to be mightily impressive to Americans, not so much in the rest of the world. Phil Spencer may be god to the American gamers, many in the rest in the world consider him a PR mouthpiece with limited grasp pf the gaming business as a whole.

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Last edited by Shadow1980 - on 29 January 2022

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I don’t expect them to make any acquisitions to counter-attack the buying spree of MS.

Whilst PlayStation is one of the best profitable sectors of Sony Corp, they are getting into other ventures like the opening of Sony Mobility Inc, and they seem to be investing heavily in that.

One of the most expensive Studios they bought recently was Insomniac, and that was peanuts compared to ZeniMax o Activision/Blizzard.



I think people need to understand that not only Sony has to talk with publishers for years to make a deal, but the publisher has to be willing to sell. It doesn't matter how much Sony or Microsoft offers. If Square Enix, Capcom, Sega, EA, etc. aren't looking to sell then they cannot be acquired. The sooner people realize that the better.



twintail said:
EricHiggin said:

SNY could also splurge, but pick and choose and pluck certain dev studios and/or franchises from anywhere, if they could make those deals happen.

In some ways, this may be the better strategy. Like, IF Sony could get Bioware, it'll probably be better than trying to get the whole of EA.

But it also seems like likely now.

If SNY could pick and choose some IP, even without the studios worst case, that would save them a lot of money and would allow them to better target (future) gaps they definitely feel need to be filled and solidified. Then just poach who they need to, like some from those same franchise studios afterwards, lol, or even better, some from Zeni, Acti, and Bliz. LOL.

Like if they could get something like Titanfall, yet couldn't get Respawn, even if they poached a few from Respawn later, then went after a bunch of Acti COD devs, etc, that should work. Create a new PS Studio for them. It would be more of a headache, but more efficient financially.

Have that new studio work on fps/shooter related games beyond Titanfall. SNY has some IP they could put to good use.

Lots of cases like this with different options. It would also be really good PR for SNY. Just taking nibbles instead of stuffing their face.



PotentHerbs said:
Dallinor said:

Explain your rationale here.

Consolidation in the video game industry is happening. If Sony could lose a partner like Activision Blizzard, they can absolutely lose major partners like Ubisoft, Sega, EA, etc, over the course of the generation. It won't just be Microsoft looking at big publishers either, Tencent, Amazon, Google, the doors have been blasted open. Sony still heavily relies on third party content to fill out the year and the gaps between their heavy hitters. There is a very real possibility this will diminish and they will need to lean heavily on their first party. Will that be enough to sustain the Playstation platform? I don't know. 

But at this point in time, Sony are far behind Microsoft in terms of overall development teams, and at a major disadvantage with Call of Duty being an annual release. If all Sony does is grab smaller studios like Ember Labs, while Microsoft grabs another publisher like Ubisoft, they won't be able to stop Microsoft from disrupting them, and will be bleeding market share by losing tons of content while the competitors platform becomes a lot more attractive. 

All that said, Sony would've heard about this deal back in November, and I don't think they are taking it lightly behind closed doors. If the recent comments of the CEO are anything to go by, Sony will be shopping for IP, and there is one industry they can get it from, which also helps one of their most profitable businesses remain competitive. 

Yeah, that doesn't really explain how or why they would drop out of the hardware space. I don't follow your logic. 

I mean put it this way, even in the unlikely scenario they lost say 60% of their marketshare (which would be absolutely huge), you think they're going to stop making Playstations?

Sony have likely known about consolidation efforts across the industry since the start of this generation - I've been wondering why they've been massively pushing into multiplayer with new and existing IP. This is the answer. If they can no longer rely on 3rd parties to fill the multiplayer space, they have to do it themselves. 



 

mjk45 said:
VideoGameAccountant said:

I've said this in another thread, so I'll summarize it here. Sony can't buy Square. They don't have the liquidity to do it
Square's market cap (according to Google) is 689 billion yen. In just cash, Sony has 1.473 trillion yen. However, this is split between all of Sony's departments. If you take out Sony Financial Services, they only have 874 billion yen. This means Sony would either have to go into debt or spend all their cash to buy Square. Even if they do a half cash, half stock deal, then it's still costing them 345 billion yen, and would only leave all of Sony's divisions (sans Financial Services) with 529 billion yen. One thing to keep in mind is Sony does not have a lot of liquidity, so to lose this much cash puts them at a pretty big risk. Also, Sony has a lot of short term debt (1.478 trillion which is more than the cash they have on hand) and a decent amount of long term debt. They don't have the money to throw around.

Moreover, if Sony did this, you'd see Nintendo and probably Microsoft throw their hat into the ring to prevent this from happening. Nintendo has 1.07 trillion yen and has far more liquid assets (securities and CDs) than Sony does, so they could throw more money around than Sony could, if a buy out was possibility. Not to mention they have less debt. They also have a lot to lose if Sony bought Square, since Nintendo pushes for Dragon Quest, has smaller developers that make third party content for them (Octopath/Braverly Default) and legacy content (and Smash I guess). So even if Sony could do it, they'd likely get outbid in the end.

By the by, there is a reason why you haven't seen Sony make a lot of big acquisitions, or many acquisitions to begin with.

Source: https://www.sony.com/en/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/pdf/21q2_sony.pdf

There are a few things money is at historically low levels,Sony's CFO stated in a financial statement after the Zenimax takeover that they had the means to make large scale acquisitions beyond the cash they had already set aside toward any future purchases,  11 billion US in cash and another 16 billion in liquid assets  giving them 27 billion liquidity without needing to touch their lines of credit, he also mentioned that their liquidity was growing at record levels (I read somewhere iirc around 400%) and he also stated the reason he made the statement was to clear the air regarding speculation that Sony didn't have the means to make these size acquisitions and if they did it would come with excessive debt levels or impact their cash flow, he again further emphasised that he was about clearing  up those misconceptions and this didn't mean they were making any such acquisitions and also importantly it also didn't mean if they did they would be done  just by using up their cash/ liquidity reserves in one hit.

Another aside when it comes to their capacity to obtain credit and it may not have anything to do with this is I recall sony making news for buying out and reincorporated their banking service.

Let's look at Sony's current assets.

  • Investments and advances in the Financial Services segment - These are assets needed for the Financial Service sector, and they can be used for acquisitions. Any financial business is about managing liquidity and earnings, so these can't be liquidated. 
  • Trade and other receivables, and contract assets - These are likely split off between multiple divisions in Sony. They likely wont be able to pledge these for an acquisition, nor would they want to. 
  • Inventory - Don't think I need to explain this
  • Other financial assets - This is probably the only thing that could be considered liquid. Only problem is its only 106 billion yen (2% of current assets) and could be things Sony can liquidate easily. 
  • Other current assets - These are likely things like Prepaids.

As you mentioned, his comments are to make it seem they can totally make acquisitions if they wanted to. They had to say something to assure investors everything will be OK. And I'm sure, in someway, they can get to that number, but noticed that, in the time since Microsoft bought Zenimax they haven't made any kind of acquisition like that? At most, they've bought one or two smaller developers that have worked closely with Sony. But they haven't made any kind of purchase like Microsoft.

On debt, Sony has a lot of debt already which makes it difficult for them to do big purchases if they wanted to. This wont stop them from making smaller acquisitions, but something like Square would be a different story. 



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