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Forums - Movies & TV - If you like the matrix original movies... Pls DONT watch ressurections!!!

thismeintiel on 26 December 2021
Soundwave said:
thismeintiel said:

No, Afterlife was not a success. Was it as big of a flop as 2016? No. Of course, that film had costly reshoots that ballooned the budget. Afterlife may have doubled it's production budget, but it still hasn't recovered its marketing budget. Considering a movie studio sees about 50% of the revenue from the box office take, it needs to make ~$215M-$225M just to break even. Keep in mind, it also failed to even match 2016's box office of $229M.

Also, I haven't seen where Sony announced that they greenlit a sequel. Just articles stating Jason Reitman has ideas for a sequel. I'm guessing it'll be another nostalgia bomb and then the last third recreates the Ghostbusters 2 ending.

FromDK said:

Me and my litlebrother are big fans.. we saw it yesterday (not together) And We like it alot..
Its (for us) insane that they came up with that story.. totally not what we expected.. a true master piece.
It's not a movie for actionfans.. offcourse it have action.. but today disney has much better computers and money to do that.. Its a movie for the intellectual.. a movie for the ones that think we are living in a world that have us all on a lock.. no freedom.. It's art mixed with reality mixed with "the Matrix idea"

This is only offfcourse only IMO... but just like I dident understand how anybody could like Starwars 7-9.. I don't understand why this movei gets so much hate..? Are all become programs?

You don't understand how people could like TLJ, yet used the exact same argument people used to defend that movie? People said that it was for the intellectuals and others just didn't get it.

If your first defense of a movie is people are dumb and didn't get it, you don't have much of a defense. Maybe people did get it, but still hate it?

Personally, I'm glad it's flopping, like a lot of cash grabs have been lately. Maybe it'll force Hollywood to stop getting by on nostalgia and mediocre hero movies alone.

Ghostbusters didn't have a huge marketing budget, the VOD/home video/TV/streaming revenue the movie will more than cover the marketing costs and they did have some merchandising and product promotion in the film to offset costs too. And also all this during COVID, so you have to factor in Sony is looking at a sequel that releases post-COVID.

‘Ghostbusters: Afterlife’s Jason Reitman & Gil Kenan Sign Sony Pact – Deadline

Sony signed a deal with the Ghostbusters Afterlife writer + director for more movies after they saw the box office for Afterlife, which is basically industry code for "we want more Ghostbusters, but the director and writer want a guarantee we'll at least give a first look to some of their other projects". But there's no way Sony signs this deal if they were unhappy with Ghostbusters Afterlife and/or didn't want a sequel. 

This is the deal you sign with a studio when you've had a success as a director and/or writer in Hollywood, they get a sequel to a movie they want and you get maybe another passion project you have on the side greenlit or at least moved into first look status. 

It's easy to say "Hollywood should make more original stuff!" when it's not you financing it with your own money, lol, if that was the case, you probably would want to some guarantee there's a built in audience so you have a better chance of seeing your money come back.

That was November 29th. They probably didn't realize the movie was going to drop so dramatically in December, with few repeat viewings. It's a bad look that it's not even going to come close to hitting 2016's numbers. Might not even hit $200M. Companies don't make movies to break even after all the deals are included. They want to make profit at the box office, and then profit on top of that with the streaming rights and home video purchases.

Actually, your argument is exactly what Sony tried doing for the 2016 film. They said they would make money when you include the product placement, toy sales, tax breaks, and even, pathetically, new purchases of the OG films. We know how that turned out for 2016's sequel. I'll just say, I'm not going to hold my breath for a sequel to Afterlife.

Also, stop with the Covid excuse. That may have worked last year, but not this year. Spider-Man, and to a lesser extent movies like Quiet Place 2, already proved Covid isn't keeping people away from the theater.

And I never said they can't make movies with established audiences. I said they have to stop relying on member berry films, as well as mediocre hero films, hoping the DC or Marvel name will make it profitable. Actually put some freaking effort into the movies, paying respect to OG source, but also telling your own interesting story. Not try to blind people with nostalgia, while the bad taste of the previous failed attempt at a sequel is still in people's mouths, while just copying off of the OG film. TFA is now remembered for the slightly above average member berry film it was at release, and I think Afterlife will be no different in a couple of years.

Last edited by thismeintiel - on 26 December 2021

 

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SvennoJ on 26 December 2021
Soundwave said:
SvennoJ said:

Dark city ages like fine wine, always a joy to watch it again. The Matrix not so much though, relies too much on the action sequences which lose their impact over time. And of course, the big moments are already known on subsequent viewings. While in Dark city you notice all new details on subsequent viewings.

I did enjoy the sequels which added some interesting characters. The action wasn't as good and the pervasive greenish tint was off putting. Yet the underground city was very well done imo. Anyway, not really interested in another Matrix movie.

The first Matrix is the best Hollywood action blockbuster of the last 25 years, even Tarantino has said that. 

I think only Lord of the Rings (not the The Hobbit) are on that level. 

Yes, I agree with that. But I rather rewatch Dark City over The Matrix. The impact of the first time viewing The Matrix is unrivaled. (which I saw in NY, flew there for the premiere of Star Wars Episde one, The Matrix stole its thunder times 10) Yet I find myself losing interest when I try to watch it again nowadays. It starts very slow (which was great at the time) and action sequences simply lose their impact the more you see them. At least for me.

Lotr I now ffwd through the action scenes when I watch it again or 1.5x speed. Love the story and character development, action scenes just lose their impact. The Raid and The Raid 2 have the best action sequences imo, I don't mind watching them again.



thismeintiel on 26 December 2021
zero129 said:
thismeintiel said:

That was November 29th. They probably didn't realize the movie was going to drop so dramatically in December, with few repeat viewings. It's a bad look that it's not even going to come close to hitting 2016's numbers. Might not even hit $200M. Companies don't make movies to break even after all the deals are included. They want to make profit at the box office, and then profit on top of that with the streaming rights and home video purchases.

Actually, your argument is exactly what Sony tried doing for the 2016 film. They said they would make money when you include the product placement, toy sales, tax breaks, and even, pathetically, new purchases of the OG films. We know how that turned out for 2016's sequel. I'll just say, I'm not going to hold my breath for a sequel to Afterlife.

Also, stop with the Covid excuse. That may have worked last year, but not this year. Spider-Man, and to a lesser extent movies like Quiet Place 2, already proved Covid isn't keeping people away from the theater.

And I never said they can't make movies with established audiences. I said they have to stop relying on member berry films, as well as mediocre hero films, hoping the DC or Marvel name will make it profitable. Actually put some freaking effort into the movies, paying respect to OG source, but also telling your own interesting story. Not try to blind people with nostalgia, while the bad taste of the previous failed attempt at a sequel is still in people's mouths, while just copying off of the OG film. TFA is now remembered for the slightly above average member berry film it was at release, and I think Afterlife will be no different in a couple of years.

Afterlife is a much better film then the 2016 one and a great sequel imo so its sad to hear that people who are not fans might not watch it after the bad taste the 2016 movie left in their mouths.

Oh, I think it's the exact opposite. Some OG fans, like myself, were excited by the teaser trailer and wanted it to be good because of how bad 2016 was. After the trailer, when it was kids busting ghosts and looked like it was just going to be a film getting by on nostalgia, we didn't pay to go watch it.  On the other hand, I truly believe others are thinking it's better than it actually is. After 2016, they wanted a good Ghostbusters film. Maybe even needed one. So, Afterlife comes out, filled with member berries, and some ate it up. Just not enough of them to make it profitable.

Like I mentioned, it's kind of like Star Wars. The prequels left a bad taste in many people's mouths. They yearned for a good Star Wars film. Along came TFA, which was basically a soft remake of ANH filled with member berries. Fans ate it up. Even at the time I thought it was just an above average film with quite a few problems. Passable, but definitely not the greatest thing ever like some felt.

After a year or two, people started waking up to TFA just being an ok movie on repeat viewings. I think the same thing is going to happen with Afterlife.



 

Soundwave on 26 December 2021

Ghostbusters AL will be profitable, the box office more than covers the production budget and the movie will run forever on streaming and TV which will more than cover its marketing budget which was small to begin with. 

You don't understand business if you don't understand that, now Sony can also charge Netflix/Amazon/Hulu/who ever more $$$ for the Ghostbusters IP because if they have the streaming rights to Afterlife, probably they want GB 1 and 2 at least also, so that has leverage value for a long time. 

This is partly why franchises are so valuable to studios, you have more sway on your back catalog if you have a modern franchise entry that the streaming service is already paying for ie: Sony/Columbia probably also got a pretty penny for the rights to older Karate Kid films from Netflix because Cobra Kai is such a hit for them. Now Sony can always threaten to take Karate Kid I/II/III elsewhere which keeps Netflix paying a higher rate for it because they want to retain synergy with Cobra Kai, you don't want a service where the audience loves Cobra Kai but can't get access to the older KK films. 



Soundwave on 26 December 2021
thismeintiel said:
Soundwave said:

Ghostbusters didn't have a huge marketing budget, the VOD/home video/TV/streaming revenue the movie will more than cover the marketing costs and they did have some merchandising and product promotion in the film to offset costs too. And also all this during COVID, so you have to factor in Sony is looking at a sequel that releases post-COVID.

‘Ghostbusters: Afterlife’s Jason Reitman & Gil Kenan Sign Sony Pact – Deadline

Sony signed a deal with the Ghostbusters Afterlife writer + director for more movies after they saw the box office for Afterlife, which is basically industry code for "we want more Ghostbusters, but the director and writer want a guarantee we'll at least give a first look to some of their other projects". But there's no way Sony signs this deal if they were unhappy with Ghostbusters Afterlife and/or didn't want a sequel. 

This is the deal you sign with a studio when you've had a success as a director and/or writer in Hollywood, they get a sequel to a movie they want and you get maybe another passion project you have on the side greenlit or at least moved into first look status. 

It's easy to say "Hollywood should make more original stuff!" when it's not you financing it with your own money, lol, if that was the case, you probably would want to some guarantee there's a built in audience so you have a better chance of seeing your money come back.

That was November 29th. They probably didn't realize the movie was going to drop so dramatically in December, with few repeat viewings. It's a bad look that it's not even going to come close to hitting 2016's numbers. Might not even hit $200M. Companies don't make movies to break even after all the deals are included. They want to make profit at the box office, and then profit on top of that with the streaming rights and home video purchases.

Actually, your argument is exactly what Sony tried doing for the 2016 film. They said they would make money when you include the product placement, toy sales, tax breaks, and even, pathetically, new purchases of the OG films. We know how that turned out for 2016's sequel. I'll just say, I'm not going to hold my breath for a sequel to Afterlife.

Also, stop with the Covid excuse. That may have worked last year, but not this year. Spider-Man, and to a lesser extent movies like Quiet Place 2, already proved Covid isn't keeping people away from the theater.

And I never said they can't make movies with established audiences. I said they have to stop relying on member berry films, as well as mediocre hero films, hoping the DC or Marvel name will make it profitable. Actually put some freaking effort into the movies, paying respect to OG source, but also telling your own interesting story. Not try to blind people with nostalgia, while the bad taste of the previous failed attempt at a sequel is still in people's mouths, while just copying off of the OG film. TFA is now remembered for the slightly above average member berry film it was at release, and I think Afterlife will be no different in a couple of years.

We'll see who's right and who's wrong, I think you are going to be proven wrong when Sony inevitably announces the next 

Ghostbusters movie to be directed or produced by Reitman, which will probably happen as an announcement in the next year or

so, depending on what Reitman's schedule is. 

Movie studios have number crunchers a lot smarter than you as well, they know by day 9/10 where a movie is going to end up box office wise fairly easily, they would not have signed that deal. 

I only bring up COVID because I'm sure they are projecting the next GB movie will make even more money with no pandemic. There are still lots of people, particularly older people who aren't going back to theaters just yet. 



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Soundwave on 26 December 2021

People go to franchise IPs for nostalgia, what is really the point otherwise?

It's kind of like going into a McDonalds and throwing a fit inside the restaurant because they "only" serve Bigs Macs, cheeseburgers, fries, and mostly the same stuff from 30-40-50 years ago. You're know what you're going into when you're going into a McDonalds, there's not going to be pasta dishes and a wine menu there all of the sudden, lol.

Same thing for franchise movie sequels especially reboots of IP that is 20+ years old, it's going to be self referential. If you don't like that, go watch something else, just like no one is forcing you to eat at McDonalds. And yes, this is a business, not sure why or when you thought it was something between a charity and artists conclave.



thismeintiel on 26 December 2021
shikamaru317 said:
thismeintiel said:

That was November 29th. They probably didn't realize the movie was going to drop so dramatically in December, with few repeat viewings. It's a bad look that it's not even going to come close to hitting 2016's numbers. Might not even hit $200M. Companies don't make movies to break even after all the deals are included. They want to make profit at the box office, and then profit on top of that with the streaming rights and home video purchases.

Actually, your argument is exactly what Sony tried doing for the 2016 film. They said they would make money when you include the product placement, toy sales, tax breaks, and even, pathetically, new purchases of the OG films. We know how that turned out for 2016's sequel. I'll just say, I'm not going to hold my breath for a sequel to Afterlife.

Also, stop with the Covid excuse. That may have worked last year, but not this year. Spider-Man, and to a lesser extent movies like Quiet Place 2, already proved Covid isn't keeping people away from the theater.

And I never said they can't make movies with established audiences. I said they have to stop relying on member berry films, as well as mediocre hero films, hoping the DC or Marvel name will make it profitable. Actually put some freaking effort into the movies, paying respect to OG source, but also telling your own interesting story. Not try to blind people with nostalgia, while the bad taste of the previous failed attempt at a sequel is still in people's mouths, while just copying off of the OG film. TFA is now remembered for the slightly above average member berry film it was at release, and I think Afterlife will be no different in a couple of years.

I think it's safe to say that Ghostbusters 2016 being awful damaged the reputation of the brand somewhat, which would have lead to alot of fans being skeptical about Afterlife, deciding to instead wait on streaming/rental to watch it (it's the same thing that happened to Solo: A Star Wars Story, people hated The Last Jedi so much that they purposefully skipped seeing Solo in theater even though Solo was a much better movie than TLJ, not amazing, but good at least).

-Snip-

Plus alot of people will see Afterlife on streaming/rental and will enjoy it and be more willing to see a sequel in theater, basically I think Sony realizes that Afterlife is good enough that it will repair alot of the damage that 2016 did to the franchise. I definitely see them greenlighting a sequel once they look at all profits combined (box office, DVD/Blu-Ray, VoD, streaming service licensing, merchandise, product placement revenue [dat Stay Puft money, lol], etc.). 

I doubt 2016 had anything to do with Afterlife's results. If anything, it probably propped up people's opinion of it. If they had made a film not so reliant on "member" moments and had either the OG Ghostbusters the main focus, or at the very least, had them pass it on to adults, I bet the film would have done 1.5x-2x as much. I know me and my family would have watched it. Instead it was a sappy movie that barely had any good comedy in it, and had freaking kids busting ghosts. Which really just pisses on Harold Ramis' opinion from the first movies, since he even said that the proton packs were not for kids. Inserting kids is also what fucked up the Real Ghostbusters cartoon.

Spider-Man doing "very well" is the understatement of the year. It just did $1.05B in just 10 days. The best result for any Spider-Man EVER. In fact, it's already passed every Spider-Man save Far From Home, which will probably happen in a few days. Quiet Place 2 was only down 11% from the original, which isn't anything out of the ordinary. And that was in the height of Delta fear. 

If you honestly think Covid is the reason, and not just the mediocre quality of theses new films, there's just going to be no convincing you. But, there's just no argument to have after Spider-Man, and a few others, proved it all wrong. That argument had some teeth in 2020, when not all theaters were open, there were still many unknowns, and there was no vaccine. In 2021, however? Nope. No teeth.

Soundwave said:

People go to franchise IPs for nostalgia, what is really the point otherwise?

It's kind of like going into a McDonalds and throwing a fit inside the restaurant because they "only" serve Bigs Macs, cheeseburgers, fries, and mostly the same stuff from 30-40-50 years ago. You're know what you're going into when you're going into a McDonalds, there's not going to be pasta dishes and a wine menu there all of the sudden, lol.

Same thing for franchise movie sequels especially reboots of IP that is 20+ years old, it's going to be self referential. If you don't like that, go watch something else, just like no one is forcing you to eat at McDonalds. And yes, this is a business, not sure why or when you thought it was something between a charity and artists conclave.

Spider-Man is a great example of how to do nostalgia right.

Spiderman No Way Home SPOILER:

Spoiler!
Told its own story while bringing characters back that were very nostalgic to many.  Hell, in Andrew Garfield's case, actually redeemed his portrayal. There were no scenes that were over sappy and dwelt way too long on the events and objects from of the past. They actually had a little fun with some things from past movies, while still respecting them. The last third also wasn't just the first Tobey Maguire movie all over, again.

Afterlife is how you do it wrong. And the box office shows. Which is why I don't think we'll get a sequel anytime soon. That's the business aspect of it. You're the one who thinks it's a charity and an underperforming film should be given a sequel cause you liked it.

Like you said, we'll see who's right. This will be my last post in here about Afterlife, though. This is supposed to be about the other poor sequel, Resurrections.

Last edited by Hiku - on 26 December 2021

 

victor83fernandes on 26 December 2021

Too late, I already watch it, couldn't be bothered to finish it, it was beyond horrible. Bad acting, bad special effects, the original matrix had better effects in 99, 22 years before. Bad fight scenes, these actors are just too old now. The story was even more ridiculous. The actors are worse in every way, the new Morpheus is nowhere near as iconic, the new Agent Smith is nowhere near as iconic. The director new the movie sucked so bad that he added a lot of scenes from the previous movies. They had no ideas that's why they added the same stuff, like another kung fu fight with Morpheus, another trying to jump of a building, and so on. 

I didn't pay anything to watch the movie, didn't even leave my bed, and I still feel cheated, that's 90 minutes I could have used to do something else.



victor83fernandes on 26 December 2021
Bristow9091 said:
ClassicGamingWizzz said:

Dont waste money people, this is a easy torrent if you are curious to see how bad it is.

You may not like the film, but please don't encourage piracy.

This movie is not even worth the bandwidth of the pirated version. So if you ever decide to watch it, just make sure you don't pay for it.

I see it this way, if they want me to buy the bluray disc to add to my 600 bluray disc collection, they need to start making good movies like they used to. Stop making cash grab movies without any effort, and I'll start buying. With that said I bought already monster hunter, Raya, Soul, Mortal Kombat, 1917, Sonic, Nobody, Joker and more. And will buy the new James bond, shang shi.

My point is, make good movies and people will pay for it.

Last edited by victor83fernandes - on 26 December 2021

EricHiggin on 26 December 2021
EricHiggin said:
thismeintiel said:

-Snip-

In-depth Covid discussion goes in here: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread (vgchartz.com)

~Hiku

I would only say Resurrections is bad, if looking at it from the perspective of the Matrix universe itself. If you look at it from real life and the deeper messaging in the films, then it's actually pretty decent.
Hiku said:

@thismeintiel @Dulfite

@EricHiggin @shikamaru317 

Mentioning Covid's effect in general is fine. But highly opinionated baiting comments go in the Covid thread here --> Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread (vgchartz.com)

If someone mentiones death rates, that's inevitably inviting an argument about all the other conditions that Covid can cause in survivors (such as permanent loss of smell or taste), or number of ICU beds, etc.
If you call people sheeple, or suggest that people are tricked by the media, that will also provoke the expected counter-arguments.

We have a Covid thread for that, as to not derail threads like this.
Some posts have had those paragraphs edited out, and PM'd to you, which you can then copy-and-paste into the Covid thread if you'd like to have an in-depth discussion about its effect on movie going. Or re-post in here without any baiting.

Also for the Star Wars discussion, or any film for that matter, please remember to use spoiler tags.
Added one to one of your SW comments @Soundwave

Just for anyone else who misunderstood my point above from earlier, if they remember what it said, while I replied to a point made that included covid in it, my point was about the media portion, not covid itself. 

Assuming the worst, is part of why Resurrections is doing so poorly. Not that the movie is spectacular, but some of the takes seem quite overblown. Those takes are people's opinion however, and there can't exactly be a factual answer, so it's not near as easy to make up one's mind about the worth of the film and whether to go see it.