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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Xbox Series X/S and PS5 probably should've been delayed

 

Should the ninth generation consoles have been delayed?

No way 24 51.06%
 
Yes, delayed to March 2021 5 10.64%
 
Yes, delayed to June 2021 2 4.26%
 
Yes, delayed to September 2021 3 6.38%
 
Yes, delayed to November 2021 11 23.40%
 
Other 2 4.26%
 
Total:47
PotentHerbs said:

Don't forget haptic feedback which is on another level compared to rumble/vibration.

Haptic feedback isn't new. The Xbox One had it... It had tiny motors behind each trigger to add vibration and larger ones in the grip.
The PS5's is a refinement of that technology, rather than something innovative and new.

The impulse triggers are the big seller... And if you have experienced them, you know how cool it is... Having that "resistance" as you pull the triggers while your character draws a bow string is just downright awesome.


PotentHerbs said:

I wouldn't consider Kinect (similar to the PS Eye) a controller & the PS Move motion controls were not better than the WiiMote, & the WiiMote is one of the worst controllers I've used lol.


A video-game controller is an input device to be used with video games or other interactive media, typically to control a character or object. - So by it's very definition, Kinect and PS Eye -are- fundamentally controllers.

The Wii-motes "quality" isn't really up for question or debate, the question stems around controller innovation and the Wii was absolutely new and ground breaking at the time. THAT is innovation.

PotentHerbs said:

The Dualsense is quite innovative that even with the same "outline" as the Dualshock, it added more flexibility in terms of controls, as well as a layer of immersion. 


The Dual Sense is a refinement over already established designs, it builds upon the foundations and improves on what came before it.
You are *not* controlling or adding input to games in a new and fundamental way. It's a refinement of technology, not an innovative leap.

I do own a Nintendo Switch, Xbox Series X and a Playstation 5 and I so can compare them all in real time, I'm not just talking out my ass on what I have read online.

By that same extension, the Xbox Series X controller is even less of a refinement, for all intents and purposes it's identical to my Xbox One X controller, the only addition being a share button due to the loss of Kinects voice commands.

Nintendo Switch controllers are a refinement over what the Wii offered with a few new tricks and capabilities.

I think the real issue is... Console gamers love to "talk up" their platform of choice to be the second coming of Jesus, when it simply isn't the case.

Random_Matt said:

PS5 more so, complete rush job. They forgot to add a heat sink on half the ram, goes past 90c, good job Sony only gives 12 months warranty.

Micron tends to rate it's DRAM chips to 105'C. Still plenty of headroom, the cooler will ramp up significantly before it hits that temperature which will keep everything in check.
Ram typically doesn't need heatsinks if there is enough airflow, it's just a "thing" to look cool these days.

I ran the Playstation 5 through Australia's summer. If it can handle it here, it can handle it anywhere.

Although the Series X cooling is definitely more efficient, it is definitely quieter during 45'C ambients and tends to remove heat more effectively.

Last edited by Pemalite - on 14 June 2021

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Pemalite said:
PotentHerbs said:

Don't forget haptic feedback which is on another level compared to rumble/vibration.

Haptic feedback isn't new. The Xbox One had it... It had tiny motors behind each trigger to add vibration and larger ones in the grip.
The PS5's is a refinement of that technology, rather than something innovative and new.

The impulse triggers are the big seller... And if you have experienced them, you know how cool it is... Having that "resistance" as you pull the triggers while your character draws a bow string is just downright awesome.


PotentHerbs said:

I wouldn't consider Kinect (similar to the PS Eye) a controller & the PS Move motion controls were not better than the WiiMote, & the WiiMote is one of the worst controllers I've used lol.


A video-game controller is an input device to be used with video games or other interactive media, typically to control a character or object. - So by it's very definition, Kinect and PS Eye -are- fundamentally controllers.

The Wii-motes "quality" isn't really up for question or debate, the question stems around controller innovation and the Wii was absolutely new and ground breaking at the time. THAT is innovation.

PotentHerbs said:

The Dualsense is quite innovative that even with the same "outline" as the Dualshock, it added more flexibility in terms of controls, as well as a layer of immersion. 


The Dual Sense is a refinement over already established designs, it builds upon the foundations and improves on what came before it.
You are *not* controlling or adding input to games in a new and fundamental way. It's a refinement of technology, not an innovative leap.

I do own a Nintendo Switch, Xbox Series X and a Playstation 5 and I so can compare them all in real time, I'm not just talking out my ass on what I have read online.

By that same extension, the Xbox Series X controller is even less of a refinement, for all intents and purposes it's identical to my Xbox One X controller, the only addition being a share button due to the loss of Kinects voice commands.

Nintendo Switch controllers are a refinement over what the Wii offered with a few new tricks and capabilities.

I think the real issue is... Console gamers love to "talk up" their platform of choice to be the second coming of Jesus, when it simply isn't the case.

Random_Matt said:

PS5 more so, complete rush job. They forgot to add a heat sink on half the ram, goes past 90c, good job Sony only gives 12 months warranty.

Micron tends to rate it's DRAM chips to 105'C. Still plenty of headroom, the cooler will ramp up significantly before it hits that temperature which will keep everything in check.
Ram typically doesn't need heatsinks if there is enough airflow, it's just a "thing" to look cool these days.

I ran the Playstation 5 through Australia's summer. If it can handle it here, it can handle it anywhere.

Although the Series X cooling is definitely more efficient, it is definitely quieter during 45'C ambients and tends to remove heat more effectively.

Let's not forget the upcoming loud fan patch upon using NVMe drives. Xbox is way better designed console, hope PS5 slim is better.



Random_Matt said:
Pemalite said:

Haptic feedback isn't new. The Xbox One had it... It had tiny motors behind each trigger to add vibration and larger ones in the grip.
The PS5's is a refinement of that technology, rather than something innovative and new.

The impulse triggers are the big seller... And if you have experienced them, you know how cool it is... Having that "resistance" as you pull the triggers while your character draws a bow string is just downright awesome.


PotentHerbs said:

I wouldn't consider Kinect (similar to the PS Eye) a controller & the PS Move motion controls were not better than the WiiMote, & the WiiMote is one of the worst controllers I've used lol.


A video-game controller is an input device to be used with video games or other interactive media, typically to control a character or object. - So by it's very definition, Kinect and PS Eye -are- fundamentally controllers.

The Wii-motes "quality" isn't really up for question or debate, the question stems around controller innovation and the Wii was absolutely new and ground breaking at the time. THAT is innovation.


The Dual Sense is a refinement over already established designs, it builds upon the foundations and improves on what came before it.
You are *not* controlling or adding input to games in a new and fundamental way. It's a refinement of technology, not an innovative leap.

I do own a Nintendo Switch, Xbox Series X and a Playstation 5 and I so can compare them all in real time, I'm not just talking out my ass on what I have read online.

By that same extension, the Xbox Series X controller is even less of a refinement, for all intents and purposes it's identical to my Xbox One X controller, the only addition being a share button due to the loss of Kinects voice commands.

Nintendo Switch controllers are a refinement over what the Wii offered with a few new tricks and capabilities.

I think the real issue is... Console gamers love to "talk up" their platform of choice to be the second coming of Jesus, when it simply isn't the case.

Random_Matt said:

PS5 more so, complete rush job. They forgot to add a heat sink on half the ram, goes past 90c, good job Sony only gives 12 months warranty.

Micron tends to rate it's DRAM chips to 105'C. Still plenty of headroom, the cooler will ramp up significantly before it hits that temperature which will keep everything in check.
Ram typically doesn't need heatsinks if there is enough airflow, it's just a "thing" to look cool these days.

I ran the Playstation 5 through Australia's summer. If it can handle it here, it can handle it anywhere.

Although the Series X cooling is definitely more efficient, it is definitely quieter during 45'C ambients and tends to remove heat more effectively.

Let's not forget the upcoming loud fan patch upon using NVMe drives. Xbox is way better designed console, hope PS5 slim is better.

Hi guys this is getting away from the thread specially the dual sense arguement  



I'd say both would be in a worse position? Shortages were not as bad when they launched in late 2020...potentially this had an impact on the price and maybe they have somewhat locked in their price with suppliers (just guessing here).

Luanching end of 2021 would definitely mean higher cost of hardware, and I doubt they would be able to produce anything significantly faster.

Games wise I think Sony are okay, im not a fan with their choice of games to produce (Demons Souls remake, Miles Morales, Sackboy) but the games were there. MS might have benefitted from a year delay with regards to games, but it seems like they still wont have anything meaningful in 2021...let alone 2020. So that would have been an even longer delay if the idea was to wait for big exclusives.

Gamepass and performance improvements (backward compat and system) seems to be the main selling point of Series X and its still sold relative well. Also releasing last year lines up perfectly with the Xbox strategy - get as many people on gamepass as possible.



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So part of the OP's ideas was Sony/MS building up stock for longer before releasing it, which would somehow be more successful by avoiding situation of mismatch of supply/demand. I eyeballed the cost of doing that with Sony's sales to date and came up with about $3.5 billion. Which is insane to dedicate to building up stock for that long, and perhaps more importantly is money not being dedicated to developing more games. I just don't think those ideas were well thought out, but merely appealed to immediate perspective of reacting to perceived negativities. But if the solution isn't any better, it isn't really a solution. And most of the problem weren't really problems in the first place, they were just bottlenecks on how big of a success it could be, but it still was a success that was better than previous generations.



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Shinobi-san said:

I'd say both would be in a worse position? Shortages were not as bad when they launched in late 2020...potentially this had an impact on the price and maybe they have somewhat locked in their price with suppliers (just guessing here).

Luanching end of 2021 would definitely mean higher cost of hardware, and I doubt they would be able to produce anything significantly faster.

Games wise I think Sony are okay, im not a fan with their choice of games to produce (Demons Souls remake, Miles Morales, Sackboy) but the games were there. MS might have benefitted from a year delay with regards to games, but it seems like they still wont have anything meaningful in 2021...let alone 2020. So that would have been an even longer delay if the idea was to wait for big exclusives.

Gamepass and performance improvements (backward compat and system) seems to be the main selling point of Series X and its still sold relative well. Also releasing last year lines up perfectly with the Xbox strategy - get as many people on gamepass as possible.

Just what I wanted to point out. But it could be even worse.

Since the fabs where the chips are produced are all running at full capacity, they deliver to their clients in a "first come, first served" manner. This is why cars have the shortages now, they dropped their microchip orders and found themselves now suddenly pushed to the back of the line. If the consoles would have released later, a similar scenario would have happened for them, too. After all, they couldn't just start production at the original date and continue producing at current speed until now - where would they put all those consoles? And any pause, any delay or any volume reduction would have stuck and be very hard to reverse again until the chip crunch is over.



Shortages will continue well into the next year, so launching this year in november would have changed exactly nothing.



Official member of VGC's Nintendo family, approved by the one and only RolStoppable. I feel honored.

Nope. I am pretty happy with mine. If you don't want to buy it now for some reason just wait and buy it later.



Demons Souls, Returnal and Ratchet and clank all have been excellent games, alongside with better versions of cross gen games.

I can’t complain.



mjk45 said:
Random_Matt said:

Let's not forget the upcoming loud fan patch upon using NVMe drives. Xbox is way better designed console, hope PS5 slim is better.

Hi guys this is getting away from the thread specially the dual sense arguement  

Not really. The argument stems from a lack of innovation which could be rectified with a longer development time on the hardware.

Random_Matt said:

Let's not forget the upcoming loud fan patch upon using NVMe drives. Xbox is way better designed console, hope PS5 slim is better.

An NVME drive shouldn't drive up cooling by that much, but Sony does have room to move on the firmware front, even a single db of fan noise would greatly improve thermals and no one would likely notice.

Shinobi-san said:

I'd say both would be in a worse position? Shortages were not as bad when they launched in late 2020...potentially this had an impact on the price and maybe they have somewhat locked in their price with suppliers (just guessing here).

Luanching end of 2021 would definitely mean higher cost of hardware, and I doubt they would be able to produce anything significantly faster.

Games wise I think Sony are okay, im not a fan with their choice of games to produce (Demons Souls remake, Miles Morales, Sackboy) but the games were there. MS might have benefitted from a year delay with regards to games, but it seems like they still wont have anything meaningful in 2021...let alone 2020. So that would have been an even longer delay if the idea was to wait for big exclusives.

Gamepass and performance improvements (backward compat and system) seems to be the main selling point of Series X and its still sold relative well. Also releasing last year lines up perfectly with the Xbox strategy - get as many people on gamepass as possible.

To understand shortages, we need to understand why they have happened.

Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo tend to forecast sales and then secure contracts based around those forecasts.
They then work with AMD and TSMC to fabricate the chips, then get them packaged by another supplier and then assembled by yet another supplier.

These tend to take many months of planning.

So it wouldn't actually make a difference if they released these consoles in 1998 or 2030, the contracts are based around sales forecasts (likely built from past sales trends).

The issue stems from Apple gobbling up a ton of 7nm supply, so whilst Sony and Microsoft could meet their original sales forecasts, they couldn't increase production because other companies like Apple, nVidia, AMD's other products, Qualcomm, HiSilicon, MediaTek and so forth... So when demand started to outstrip supply, they couldn't amend their contracts with more wafers... Not initially anyway.

With Apple moving production to 5nm, that gave AMD more wafers to secure in it's contracts, so that meant Sony and Microsoft could pump out more consoles... But due to COVID, people were more likely to stay home and thus the demand for home computer electronics increased substantially... So Supply/Demand was still not being met.

TSMC is increasing 7nm wafer supply which will become more evident in the latter half of 2021... However that still will not resolve all the issues until AMD moves Radeon and Ryzen to 5nm. (The largest consumer of 7nm)

But then we have the RAM and NAND crunch as well... Due to the demand for Notebooks, Netbooks, Tablets, Phones and other handhelds wanting more RAM and NAND... And those two chips being market driven commodities, it's shooting up price.

Sony and Microsoft can weather the pricing issue for the short term because it secured the prices earlier on in their contracts, but if they amend their contract, memory suppliers may argue for higher prices placing strain on the cost budgets of the 9th gen hardware.

There are more forces at play here, but Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo were -completely- caught off guard with their projections from the very start, the entire consumer electronics industry is scrambling to meet demand.

So... A delay wouldn't have changed much, if we start talking 2023 time frames then a delay may have been more beneficial as more companies would be on 3-5nm and there will be more capacity in general.

But a year? Won't do much.

At-least in Microsoft's case, this is one of the strengths of the Xbox Series S, it's chip is 190mm2 verses 360mm2, so they can get 117 dies (Chips) per wafer verses the Series S 214 dies per wafer... Plus the smaller RAM and NAND counts means the Series S can be built in much larger scales very easily, which is likely why we see it on shelves more often than the Playstation 5 or Series X.
The PS5 by comparison is around 137 dies per wafer.

kazuyamishima said:

Demons Souls, Returnal and Ratchet and clank all have been excellent games, alongside with better versions of cross gen games.

I can’t complain.

At the moment doing Mass Effect Legendary on the Series X and Returnal on the Playstation 5. Enjoying both experiences at the moment.

In saying that, I wouldn't have missed out on anything substantial if I stuck with my Xbox One X and Playstation 4 Pro.






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