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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Digital Foundry: Doom Eternal on Switch

Vodacixi said:
Pemalite said:

When I say the Switch version is the worst version to play... I am talking from a technical aspect and so is digital foundry.

Maybe it's because english is not my first language and I may be missing something... but I would say that writting "The Switch is the worst place to play DOOM Eternal" and then proceed to engage in an argument with me about controls and portability doesn't make it look like you were only talking about the technical aspects of the game. It strucks as contradictory to me.

But whathever. If you say you were all about visuals and performance, visuals and performance it is.

I don't know how many times I can say it's a fantastically done port on Switch and plays well. Actual.

It's only let down by technical aspects due to the anemic hardware.

curl-6 said:

Outside of Nintendo themselves and maybe Shinen, I doubt any dev knows the Switch hardware inside out as well as Panic Button do at this point.

Back in 2017 when they announced Doom 2016, it seemed impossible that a high end AAA PS4/Xbone game could be brought to the Switch in a recognizable and playable state, but they defied expectations and pulled it off. Then came the even more demanding Wolfenstein II and Wolfenstein Youngblood, with Rocket League and Warframe thrown in for good measure.

According to PB, when they first applied all their previous Switch optimizations to Doom Eternal, it still ran as poorly as Doom 2016 did without those optimizations. By now they must've squeezed just about every drop of juice form the Tegra X1. Then again who knows, maybe they'll shock us all over again with an even more ambitious port next.

I think there is still more room to breathe in the Switch's hardware.

When the Switch first launched, games just seemed like WiiU levels of quality for the most part, but as Developers have come to terms with the Maxwell derived GPU, they have been able to do some great stuff.

I still personally think Links Awakening is the most artistically charming game on the console though... With post-processing effects put to fantastic use.
But Doom Eternal is absolutely the technical achievement thus far.

I guess we need to see what Metroid brings or Breath of the Wild 2 from a Nintendo studio, but I am not sure Breath of the Wild 2 will be a significant engine overhaul from the WiiU release sadly, but I hope to be proven wrong.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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Pemalite said:
curl-6 said:

Outside of Nintendo themselves and maybe Shinen, I doubt any dev knows the Switch hardware inside out as well as Panic Button do at this point.

Back in 2017 when they announced Doom 2016, it seemed impossible that a high end AAA PS4/Xbone game could be brought to the Switch in a recognizable and playable state, but they defied expectations and pulled it off. Then came the even more demanding Wolfenstein II and Wolfenstein Youngblood, with Rocket League and Warframe thrown in for good measure.

According to PB, when they first applied all their previous Switch optimizations to Doom Eternal, it still ran as poorly as Doom 2016 did without those optimizations. By now they must've squeezed just about every drop of juice form the Tegra X1. Then again who knows, maybe they'll shock us all over again with an even more ambitious port next.

I think there is still more room to breathe in the Switch's hardware.

When the Switch first launched, games just seemed like WiiU levels of quality for the most part, but as Developers have come to terms with the Maxwell derived GPU, they have been able to do some great stuff.

I still personally think Links Awakening is the most artistically charming game on the console though... With post-processing effects put to fantastic use.
But Doom Eternal is absolutely the technical achievement thus far.

I guess we need to see what Metroid brings or Breath of the Wild 2 from a Nintendo studio, but I am not sure Breath of the Wild 2 will be a significant engine overhaul from the WiiU release sadly, but I hope to be proven wrong.

That's encouraging to hear; I guess it's usually in the last years of a system that it produces its most impressive games and Switch seem to still have a few more years left in it.

As far as Switch graphics to date I was quite impressed by Luigi's Mansion 3 and Crysis Remastered. Hard for me to pick any specific future ones to watch atm with Nintendo holding their cards so close to their chest. The next games from Next Level and Shinen should be lookers.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

Pemalite said:

I don't know how many times I can say it's a fantastically done port on Switch and plays well.

None. I never put in doubt what your thoughts about the technical aspects of the port were. Look, this is getting very old by now, so let's wrap this up:

- You said the switch was the worst way to play the game without getting into specifics.

- I said it wasn't so clear because it had portability and gyro controls, features not all platforms have (specially other consoles).

- You reasserted your point by repeting the sentence "the Switch is the worst way to play the game" and then proceeded to show me some portable PCs and telling me that gyro controls are in other platforms as well. By doing this, you made pretty clear that your initial affirmation wasn't just about the technical aspects of the port.

- I said (again) that I was refering specially to other videogame consoles (consoles in the platform sense, like Playstation or Xbox) when I talked about gyro controls and portability. Since PS4/PS5 and Xbox One/Series X are platforms were you can play the game and these dont have said features, saying that the Switch is the worst way to play it is, in my opinion, an inaccurate statement.

- And then, in the end, after all the discussion, you said "lol, I was talking about the technical aspects". When you clearly weren't.

My only problem with you was that you were clearly talking about a certain thing, but then decided to say that you didn't. And I don't like that. That's all. And I don't want to keep talking about this. It has turned into a very stupid conversation by now and I have better things to do. Bye.



Vodacixi said:
Pemalite said:

I don't know how many times I can say it's a fantastically done port on Switch and plays well.

None. I never put in doubt what your thoughts about the technical aspects of the port were. Look, this is getting very old by now, so let's wrap this up:

- You said the switch was the worst way to play the game without getting into specifics..

I got into specifics and elaborated on where it falls short on the technical aspects.

Vodacixi said:

- You reasserted your point by repeting the sentence "the Switch is the worst way to play the game" and then proceeded to show me some portable PCs and telling me that gyro controls are in other platforms as well. By doing this, you made pretty clear that your initial affirmation wasn't just about the technical aspects of the port.

From a technical aspect it is the worst way to play the game.
It has the worst graphics and performance.

Vodacixi said:

- I said (again) that I was refering specially to other videogame consoles (consoles in the platform sense, like Playstation or Xbox) when I talked about gyro controls and portability. Since PS4/PS5 and Xbox One/Series X are platforms were you can play the game and these dont have said features, saying that the Switch is the worst way to play it is, in my opinion, an inaccurate statement.

If you feel that Gyro controls justifies your purchase of the game on Switch, then that justifys your purchase. Really no skin off my nose and it's not a bad purchase.
Not sure how many times I can say it's a good port.

Keyboard and Mouse is definitely a more accurate and faster control scheme for twitch first person shooters.

Vodacixi said:

- And then, in the end, after all the discussion, you said "lol, I was talking about the technical aspects". When you clearly weren't.

That is your false interpretation.
If we go back to my opening post I quote myself:
"If you don't care about framerates and visuals and wish to play it in portable mode, you really can't go wrong unless you get a handheld PC or use xcloud."

Clearly I was talking about it's technical merits.

You are just trying to create an argument where there isn't one.

Vodacixi said:

My only problem with you was that you were clearly talking about a certain thing, but then decided to say that you didn't. And I don't like that. That's all. And I don't want to keep talking about this. It has turned into a very stupid conversation by now and I have better things to do. Bye.

Whatever issue you have with me as a person is irrelevant to the discussion and whatever issue you have with my postys? Well, apologies, but I ultimately don't care.
I don't take issue with users, I debate the points presented.

curl-6 said:

That's encouraging to hear; I guess it's usually in the last years of a system that it produces its most impressive games and Switch seem to still have a few more years left in it.

As far as Switch graphics to date I was quite impressed by Luigi's Mansion 3 and Crysis Remastered. Hard for me to pick any specific future ones to watch atm with Nintendo holding their cards so close to their chest. The next games from Next Level and Shinen should be lookers.

I don't think Crysis is actually that impressive.
We need to remember... As a game it released on PC and was optimized for a Core 2 Duo+4GB of Ram+Geforce 8800GT @720P.

Consequently, that is roughly inline with the Switch's capabilities.

But what they did go and do is port the game to an engine which takes advantage of the newer graphics features in newer GPU cores and took advantage of newer CPU's larger abundance of threads... So we were able to get a visual and performance uptick.

I used to be a moderator for the Crysis forums and I always believed Crysis (On the original engine) would have been a great fit for the Switch, getting a remastered version on a newer engine was just icing on the cake.

Luigi's Mansion in general has always been a tech showcase on Nintendo platforms, it's the lighting and mapping that really makes the scenes pop... I remember playing the original on Gamecube and was in awe at the visual makeup when I was younger.

I really need to pickup the game and add it to my collection actually.

Last edited by Pemalite - on 20 January 2021

--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
Vodacixi said:

None. I never put in doubt what your thoughts about the technical aspects of the port were. Look, this is getting very old by now, so let's wrap this up:

- You said the switch was the worst way to play the game without getting into specifics..

I got into specifics and elaborated on where it falls short on the technical aspects.

Vodacixi said:

- You reasserted your point by repeting the sentence "the Switch is the worst way to play the game" and then proceeded to show me some portable PCs and telling me that gyro controls are in other platforms as well. By doing this, you made pretty clear that your initial affirmation wasn't just about the technical aspects of the port.

From a technical aspect it is the worst way to play the game.
It has the worst graphics and performance.

Vodacixi said:

- I said (again) that I was refering specially to other videogame consoles (consoles in the platform sense, like Playstation or Xbox) when I talked about gyro controls and portability. Since PS4/PS5 and Xbox One/Series X are platforms were you can play the game and these dont have said features, saying that the Switch is the worst way to play it is, in my opinion, an inaccurate statement.

If you feel that Gyro controls justifies your purchase of the game on Switch, then that justifys your purchase. Really no skin off my nose and it's not a bad purchase.
Not sure how many times I can say it's a good port.

Keyboard and Mouse is definitely a more accurate and faster control scheme for twitch first person shooters.

Vodacixi said:

- And then, in the end, after all the discussion, you said "lol, I was talking about the technical aspects". When you clearly weren't.

That is your false interpretation.
If we go back to my opening post I quote myself:
"If you don't care about framerates and visuals and wish to play it in portable mode, you really can't go wrong unless you get a handheld PC or use xcloud."

Clearly I was talking about it's technical merits.

You are just trying to create an argument where there isn't one.

Vodacixi said:

My only problem with you was that you were clearly talking about a certain thing, but then decided to say that you didn't. And I don't like that. That's all. And I don't want to keep talking about this. It has turned into a very stupid conversation by now and I have better things to do. Bye.

Whatever issue you have with me as a person is irrelevant to the discussion and whatever issue you have with my postys? Well, apologies, but I ultimately don't care.
I don't take issue with users, I debate the points presented.

Good Lord... C'mon, one more time. Third one is the charm.

You didn't get into specifics AT ALL in your first statment. After saying that "it's the worst way to play the game" you said that if people didn't care about performance and graphics, it was a good option. But that's not the same as specifying that you were only talking about technical aspects. That's why you engaged in an argument with me about portable PCs also having gyro controls and portability (despite me specifying that those advantages were mostly on the console competition) despite in your own words not being interested in discussing those aspects, and that's why four people agreed with me when I called you out on your first statement. Clearly, I wasn't the only one that thought you were speaking in general. Since I'm not alone on this, maybe, just MAYBE you should consider the possibility that you didn't explain yourself properly... or that you are flat out lying to me for whathever reason.

If all you are going to do is keep repeating like a parrot that you were talking about technical matters all the time without truly adressing the incoherences that statement has... then please, don't. Just don't say anything else. If that's the case, you win, ok? You explained yourself perfectly from the beginning, you never changed your mind mid-argument and no one besides me misunderstood you. You did everything great. Have a good night.



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curl-6 said:

Outside of Nintendo themselves and maybe Shinen, I doubt any dev knows the Switch hardware inside out as well as Panic Button do at this point.

Back in 2017 when they announced Doom 2016, it seemed impossible that a high end AAA PS4/Xbone game could be brought to the Switch in a recognizable and playable state, but they defied expectations and pulled it off. Then came the even more demanding Wolfenstein II and Wolfenstein Youngblood, with Rocket League and Warframe thrown in for good measure.

According to PB, when they first applied all their previous Switch optimizations to Doom Eternal, it still ran as poorly as Doom 2016 did without those optimizations. By now they must've squeezed just about every drop of juice form the Tegra X1. Then again who knows, maybe they'll shock us all over again with an even more ambitious port next.

Probably the developers who made the Switch get 4GB of ram, have been working on the system since 2017, and have 5 games in development for it on one of the best engines currently on the market

I'd also add Next Level Games, yes I think just Luigi's Mansion 3 is enough to prove that. 



Pemalite said:
curl-6 said:

Will all of those look/run better than the Switch version though, or be more convenient or comfortable?

With a Ryzen 4500u APU? Absolutely.
You can at-least do 720P for starters.

Vodacixi said:

Depends. It has gyro controls and portability, two things that can make a world of a difference to many people. Specially among console players, which unless they play it on Switch... They have none of those. 

Of course, it's visually the worst version available and it's not as fluid as the other versions due to a lower framerate. But I wouldn't flat out say that it's the worst way to play the game. It has its shortcomings, but it also has its benefits compared to other platforms. 

It is the worst way to play.

PC has portability covered. But don't take my word for it.

Gyro controls are found on other platforms also.

Visually the game is a step down compared to all other platforms... But absolutely looks impressive when compared to most other Switch titles...
But other platforms have higher TDP's and aren't stuck with graphics technology from 2014.

Those are rather expensive handhelds



Pemalite said:
curl-6 said:

That's encouraging to hear; I guess it's usually in the last years of a system that it produces its most impressive games and Switch seem to still have a few more years left in it.

As far as Switch graphics to date I was quite impressed by Luigi's Mansion 3 and Crysis Remastered. Hard for me to pick any specific future ones to watch atm with Nintendo holding their cards so close to their chest. The next games from Next Level and Shinen should be lookers.

I don't think Crysis is actually that impressive.
We need to remember... As a game it released on PC and was optimized for a Core 2 Duo+4GB of Ram+Geforce 8800GT @720P.

Consequently, that is roughly inline with the Switch's capabilities.

But what they did go and do is port the game to an engine which takes advantage of the newer graphics features in newer GPU cores and took advantage of newer CPU's larger abundance of threads... So we were able to get a visual and performance uptick.

I used to be a moderator for the Crysis forums and I always believed Crysis (On the original engine) would have been a great fit for the Switch, getting a remastered version on a newer engine was just icing on the cake.

Luigi's Mansion in general has always been a tech showcase on Nintendo platforms, it's the lighting and mapping that really makes the scenes pop... I remember playing the original on Gamecube and was in awe at the visual makeup when I was younger.

I really need to pickup the game and add it to my collection actually.

As old as Crysis is the Switch version still looks pretty great in my opinion thanks to modern additions like SVOGI, updated water effects/depth of field/motion blur, etc. There aren't very many Switch games that look better to me, the few that do are more artistically stylized fare like Ori and the Will of the Wisps, Trine 4, and as mentioned Luigi's Mansion.

AngryLittleAlchemist said:
curl-6 said:

Outside of Nintendo themselves and maybe Shinen, I doubt any dev knows the Switch hardware inside out as well as Panic Button do at this point.

Back in 2017 when they announced Doom 2016, it seemed impossible that a high end AAA PS4/Xbone game could be brought to the Switch in a recognizable and playable state, but they defied expectations and pulled it off. Then came the even more demanding Wolfenstein II and Wolfenstein Youngblood, with Rocket League and Warframe thrown in for good measure.

According to PB, when they first applied all their previous Switch optimizations to Doom Eternal, it still ran as poorly as Doom 2016 did without those optimizations. By now they must've squeezed just about every drop of juice form the Tegra X1. Then again who knows, maybe they'll shock us all over again with an even more ambitious port next.

Probably the developers who made the Switch get 4GB of ram, have been working on the system since 2017, and have 5 games in development for it on one of the best engines currently on the market

I'd also add Next Level Games, yes I think just Luigi's Mansion 3 is enough to prove that. 

If you're referring to Capcom, I'm only aware of MH Rise, Stories 2, Ghosts 'n' Goblins, and the rumored RE Revelations 3 in development from them.

It will be interesting to see how RE Engine performs on Switch, Revelations 3 could potentially be a real graphical showcase for the system in the same way that the first Revelations was for 3DS.

That said, Panic Button still would seem to have more experience as they've been releasing system-pushing software for Switch for over three years now.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

curl-6 said:
Pemalite said:

I don't think Crysis is actually that impressive.
We need to remember... As a game it released on PC and was optimized for a Core 2 Duo+4GB of Ram+Geforce 8800GT @720P.

Consequently, that is roughly inline with the Switch's capabilities.

But what they did go and do is port the game to an engine which takes advantage of the newer graphics features in newer GPU cores and took advantage of newer CPU's larger abundance of threads... So we were able to get a visual and performance uptick.

I used to be a moderator for the Crysis forums and I always believed Crysis (On the original engine) would have been a great fit for the Switch, getting a remastered version on a newer engine was just icing on the cake.

Luigi's Mansion in general has always been a tech showcase on Nintendo platforms, it's the lighting and mapping that really makes the scenes pop... I remember playing the original on Gamecube and was in awe at the visual makeup when I was younger.

I really need to pickup the game and add it to my collection actually.

As old as Crysis is the Switch version still looks pretty great in my opinion thanks to modern additions like SVOGI, updated water effects/depth of field/motion blur, etc. There aren't very many Switch games that look better to me, the few that do are more artistically stylized fare like Ori and the Will of the Wisps, Trine 4, and as mentioned Luigi's Mansion.

AngryLittleAlchemist said:

Probably the developers who made the Switch get 4GB of ram, have been working on the system since 2017, and have 5 games in development for it on one of the best engines currently on the market

I'd also add Next Level Games, yes I think just Luigi's Mansion 3 is enough to prove that. 

If you're referring to Capcom, I'm only aware of MH Rise, Stories 2, Ghosts 'n' Goblins, and the rumored RE Revelations 3 in development from them.

It will be interesting to see how RE Engine performs on Switch, Revelations 3 could potentially be a real graphical showcase for the system in the same way that the first Revelations was for 3DS.

That said, Panic Button still would seem to have more experience as they've been releasing system-pushing software for Switch for over three years now.

Well they also are making a new IP that was moneyhatted by Nintendo in one of their leaks. And if the RE Switch game was leaked, it's not a rumor. Capcom's leaks are the most legit leaks ever basically, it's as literal as a leak as you can get. Regardless, that's just the difference between perceived experience and actual experiences. If you work on multiple projects over the course of years and they just happen to release around the middle of a system's life, that doesn't mean you have less experience than a studio that has ported multiple games before that. It just means your experience was stretched over multiple projects that took years to make from the ground up.  Also having to make the game from the ground up probably makes a more complete picture of what the hardware can do. At the same time, Panic Button probably knows the Switch even better than most normal developers because they port games in the sense that they have to know precisely where Switch's limitations are. The Capcom thing was a joke, but I definitely think they'll be a contender in the upcoming years (I'd argue they already are if we factor in the graphics output of Rise for a 4 player co op game).  

What I REALLY think are legit contenders though is NLG. If Shin'En counts, I think NLG should 100%. There's definitely things Shin'En does better, but really I think it's just because they prioritize those aspects more. NLG alternatively has created possibly the best looking Switch game. And both Shin'En and NLG really only have one wholly original game on Switch so



AngryLittleAlchemist said:
curl-6 said:

As old as Crysis is the Switch version still looks pretty great in my opinion thanks to modern additions like SVOGI, updated water effects/depth of field/motion blur, etc. There aren't very many Switch games that look better to me, the few that do are more artistically stylized fare like Ori and the Will of the Wisps, Trine 4, and as mentioned Luigi's Mansion.

AngryLittleAlchemist said:

Probably the developers who made the Switch get 4GB of ram, have been working on the system since 2017, and have 5 games in development for it on one of the best engines currently on the market

I'd also add Next Level Games, yes I think just Luigi's Mansion 3 is enough to prove that. 

If you're referring to Capcom, I'm only aware of MH Rise, Stories 2, Ghosts 'n' Goblins, and the rumored RE Revelations 3 in development from them.

It will be interesting to see how RE Engine performs on Switch, Revelations 3 could potentially be a real graphical showcase for the system in the same way that the first Revelations was for 3DS.

That said, Panic Button still would seem to have more experience as they've been releasing system-pushing software for Switch for over three years now.

Well they also are making a new IP that was moneyhatted by Nintendo in one of their leaks. And if the RE Switch game was leaked, it's not a rumor. Capcom's leaks are the most legit leaks ever basically, it's as literal as a leak as you can get. Regardless, that's just the difference between perceived experience and actual experiences. If you work on multiple projects over the course of years and they just happen to release around the middle of a system's life, that doesn't mean you have less experience than a studio that has ported multiple games before that. It just means your experience was stretched over multiple projects that took years to make from the ground up.  Also having to make the game from the ground up probably makes a more complete picture of what the hardware can do. At the same time, Panic Button probably knows the Switch even better than most normal developers because they port games in the sense that they have to know precisely where Switch's limitations are. The Capcom thing was a joke, but I definitely think they'll be a contender in the upcoming years (I'd argue they already are if we factor in the graphics output of Rise for a 4 player co op game).  

What I REALLY think are legit contenders though is NLG. If Shin'En counts, I think NLG should 100%. There's definitely things Shin'En does better, but really I think it's just because they prioritize those aspects more. NLG alternatively has created possibly the best looking Switch game. And both Shin'En and NLG really only have one wholly original game on Switch so

If the new IP was "Project Guillotine" didn't that turn out to be Ghosts 'n' Goblins Resurrection?

Regardless, while none of them look bad, I don't think MH Rise, Stories 2, or GnGR are in the same league as Doom Eternal technically. Maybe RE Revelations 3 will though, if it is indeed built from the ground up for Switch as Dusk Golem (the guy who leaked MH Rise ahead of time) claims.

NLG are definitely a contender, Luigi's Mansion 3 is one of the very best looking Switch games and it was their first attempt on the hardware. While I wasn't too impressed with The Touryst, FAST RMX was a launch title and is still one of the most graphically impressive Switch games nearly 4 years later, so both studios are legit contenders in my book.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.