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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Zelda Breath of the Wild is overrated.

Since I made this post I've begun a playthrough of the Wii U version. Its actually enjoyable to replay when you have a much better understanding of what you should do. It generally runs fine, but when you step into a village or a stable it must be killing the CPU because that's worst performance I've seen thus far (20 fps, maybe lower).

Having a Switch Lite has made me realize the Wii U tablet screen is fucking awful. Its blurry and the colors are muted. It actually becomes difficult to distinguish tiny objects like on a map because its so blurry. In comparison, the Switch Lite screen is very sharp, bright and the color is vivid.



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mZuzek said:

Hard disagree with them undermining the act of discovery. Discovery isn't about becoming stronger, it's about finding something new. I had no issue with the new stuff breaking when I used it, that was part of the fun, you have some time with each weapon and then it's time for something different.

I also wouldn't necessarily agree BotW is a "reward-based game", but I get your point on that one. The reason weapons were the odd one out is because they needed to have some kind of reward for everything you do in the game. If weapons didn't break, getting more weapons would be pointless unless they were better than what you already have - because they break, every weapon matters, so everytime you find a weapon (all the time), that's a good reward.

You know one thing I find myself constantly doing in just about every open-world or RPG game? Stopping to sell or drop the dozens of useless items I've acquired in the past hour or two. It usually takes quite a bit, just going through the inventory and getting rid of all that junk. It's boring. And not only is it boring, it kinda nullifies the entire reward system when all the loot you get is just a bunch of crap you'll never use.

In Breath of the Wild it was rare that I ever stopped to drop items I didn't need, and even if I had to do that, I could do it in a fun way (throwing weapons at enemies) which instantly breaks them and can be useful. This is why weapons break, it makes every weapon meaningful regardless of whether they are or aren't the best.

Also, this wasn't intentional from the devs, but the weapons being the "odd one" out also made them the only balanced thing about the game. When it comes to hearts, stamina, inventory, and especially food and gear, the game allows you to take everything too far and become way too overpowered, which is the main reason why the late game is nowhere near as fun as the early game.

I had to stop all the time to manage inventory. After every battle, what to drop, leave behind, what to pick up. That was the least enjoyable of the game. I left a trail of discarded crap all through the world lol. Mainly because my inventory was severely limited the first 70 hours yet after that it was still way too much inventory management for my liking.

I really enjoyed the loot system in Fallout 4. You could take quite a bit and sell all the scrap to build with! That was brilliant. It made me want to collect junk from everywhere. In BotW I left behind a world full of litter, discarded broken items. In fallout 4 I cleaned up the entire map and build giant skyscrapers with animated light displays. (Not that that would make any sense in a zelda game)

Discovery is indeed not about becoming stronger, but it is about experimenting and discovering new ways to do things. Items breaking after 5 to 8 hits stifles that kind of discovery. They don't have to last forever but there's a whole range between 5 hits and unbreakable. You could get or make stringer weapons in the end game (can't remember exactly how) which balanced it a bit. Instead of needing to have 6 of the same on hand, 2 or 3 would be sufficient, leaving more room for fun and discovery.



SvennoJ said:
freebs2 said:

The problem is (imo), lots of people are accustomed to play a game just for extrinsic rewards...and that's because most AAA titles have accustomed them play that way. ie. I complete the task -> reward -> I get to see the next piece of narrative; I finish the side mission -> I get a new rare item; I beat 500 enemies -> I get a trophy to display online...etc.

BOTW is a game designed to be played for intrinsic rewards -> the act of playing itself is the reward...in the specific case of BOTW in my experience, the act of discovery was the main reward for playing the game.

Yet as I said earlier, the fragile weapons undermine the act of discovery. Experimenting with weapons on different enemies quickly breaks that weapon.

However as a silver lining, it did encourage experimenting with environmental kills, using the environment to the best advantage and the magic tools. Yet keeping a weapon that gives of light or warmth for exploration meant giving up space for those paper weapons needed to survive while exploring. Maybe some like that kind of trade off, to me it just slows the game down.

Anyway BotW is very much a reward based game, it's all about more hearts, more grip, more inventory slots, more recipes, better gear, more enchantments, while weapons were the odd one out.

Yes, it's not black and white. Of course BOTW has some extrinsic rewards...and also other gamers have intrinsic motivators as well. I mean instrisic motivation is the main driver in BOTW, other rewards act more like accessories for your main goal. In fact hearts, grip, slots, gear are all meant to improve your ability to explore...but again it's all up to you, there is no pre determined limit for how many shrines you have to visit or how many upgrades to unlock or how many custscenes you have to watch in order to beat the game. A counter example is Red Dead Redemption 2, a game that follows a linear progression and each mission has the extrisic goal to progress the narrative.

As for fragile weapons...I don't think they undermine the act of discovery on the contrary they force you to quickly change strategy and use a different item or a different strategy to beat the enemy that you wouldn't consider otherwise...that said I'm not a fan of fragile weapons either. I understand their reason for the design choice but I think they could have found a more elegant solution to achieve the same results.



SvennoJ said:
mZuzek said:

Hard disagree with them undermining the act of discovery. Discovery isn't about becoming stronger, it's about finding something new. I had no issue with the new stuff breaking when I used it, that was part of the fun, you have some time with each weapon and then it's time for something different.

I also wouldn't necessarily agree BotW is a "reward-based game", but I get your point on that one. The reason weapons were the odd one out is because they needed to have some kind of reward for everything you do in the game. If weapons didn't break, getting more weapons would be pointless unless they were better than what you already have - because they break, every weapon matters, so everytime you find a weapon (all the time), that's a good reward.

You know one thing I find myself constantly doing in just about every open-world or RPG game? Stopping to sell or drop the dozens of useless items I've acquired in the past hour or two. It usually takes quite a bit, just going through the inventory and getting rid of all that junk. It's boring. And not only is it boring, it kinda nullifies the entire reward system when all the loot you get is just a bunch of crap you'll never use.

In Breath of the Wild it was rare that I ever stopped to drop items I didn't need, and even if I had to do that, I could do it in a fun way (throwing weapons at enemies) which instantly breaks them and can be useful. This is why weapons break, it makes every weapon meaningful regardless of whether they are or aren't the best.

Also, this wasn't intentional from the devs, but the weapons being the "odd one" out also made them the only balanced thing about the game. When it comes to hearts, stamina, inventory, and especially food and gear, the game allows you to take everything too far and become way too overpowered, which is the main reason why the late game is nowhere near as fun as the early game.

I had to stop all the time to manage inventory. After every battle, what to drop, leave behind, what to pick up. That was the least enjoyable of the game. I left a trail of discarded crap all through the world lol. Mainly because my inventory was severely limited the first 70 hours yet after that it was still way too much inventory management for my liking.

I really enjoyed the loot system in Fallout 4. You could take quite a bit and sell all the scrap to build with! That was brilliant. It made me want to collect junk from everywhere. In BotW I left behind a world full of litter, discarded broken items. In fallout 4 I cleaned up the entire map and build giant skyscrapers with animated light displays. (Not that that would make any sense in a zelda game)

Discovery is indeed not about becoming stronger, but it is about experimenting and discovering new ways to do things. Items breaking after 5 to 8 hits stifles that kind of discovery. They don't have to last forever but there's a whole range between 5 hits and unbreakable. You could get or make stringer weapons in the end game (can't remember exactly how) which balanced it a bit. Instead of needing to have 6 of the same on hand, 2 or 3 would be sufficient, leaving more room for fun and discovery.

Sorry I didn't see it earlier. I agree on that.

There are some ways they could have tackled the issue...but it would have required some changes in other systems as well, like the inventory. For example by limiting the invenoty (yes, even more) but giving you the ability to store weapons and equipment at stables. Giving you the option to repair weapons when broken and maybe set a time limit for the weapon to be ready for use again.



SvennoJ said:

They don't have to last forever but there's a whole range between 5 hits and unbreakable.

That's true, and that's a range the game uses.

Out of the game's 127 weapons, there's a grand total of 4 that break on five hits or less. 90 of them break in at least twenty hits, and more than 50 last for more than thirty hits. The game's level scaling system makes it so you continue to get better weapons as you progress, so the more you "experiment", the more your weapons last. Most of the late game stuff lasts for at least forty hits, including the Master Sword, which serves as an easy go-to choice for its unbreakability.

I agree the inventory is a bit too limited at the start, but if you thought it was too limiting 70 hours in, then either you skipped Hestu entirely (which is on you) or are way too finicky about inventory management (which is also on you).




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mZuzek said:
SvennoJ said:

They don't have to last forever but there's a whole range between 5 hits and unbreakable.

That's true, and that's a range the game uses.

Out of the game's 127 weapons, there's a grand total of 4 that break on five hits or less. 90 of them break in at least twenty hits, and more than 50 last for more than thirty hits. The game's level scaling system makes it so you continue to get better weapons as you progress, so the more you "experiment", the more your weapons last. Most of the late game stuff lasts for at least forty hits, including the Master Sword, which serves as an easy go-to choice for its unbreakability.

I agree the inventory is a bit too limited at the start, but if you thought it was too limiting 70 hours in, then either you skipped Hestu entirely (which is on you) or are way too finicky about inventory management (which is also on you).

That's one thing I'm bothered with when people critic this system, they always cite weapons that are easy to break but late game shield,bows, sword, etc ... can last for effectively a long time, unless you go out of your way to fight a boss or a Lynel. Not only that, but you can find a lot of them with durability perks that increase the number of hits you can do.

Though, it is a process of thought that probably comes with an utilitarian mindset most likely. People with hoarding tendencies have better chances to be frustrated in this case. Weapons in the game were always meant to be discarded, yet most of the games in this industry don't partake in such mindset, they want players to be able to keep what they've earned.

Anywoo, doing a BOTW run where I imposed myself to not upgrade my inventory slots made me understand how this decision was actually a benefit to the survival aspect of this game.



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mZuzek said:

That's true, and that's a range the game uses.

Out of the game's 127 weapons, there's a grand total of 4 that break on five hits or less. 90 of them break in at least twenty hits, and more than 50 last for more than thirty hits. The game's level scaling system makes it so you continue to get better weapons as you progress, so the more you "experiment", the more your weapons last. Most of the late game stuff lasts for at least forty hits, including the Master Sword, which serves as an easy go-to choice for its unbreakability.

I agree the inventory is a bit too limited at the start, but if you thought it was too limiting 70 hours in, then either you skipped Hestu entirely (which is on you) or are way too finicky about inventory management (which is also on you).

Yes, as I said earlier in the thread, I went to other way from the starter island and completed the Desert and Mountains before ever setting foot in Koriko village. I already had 150 to 200 of those seeds for upgrades, but there is only one guy to upgrade inventory at and I didn't see him until 70 hours later.

It's on me for following my own path instead of following the bread crumb trail! I think I only had 8 weapon and 6 shield slots or so for half the game. Then he disappeared somewhere else again after 2 upgrades and nope, I wasn't going to follow him around. Following my own path through the game, not using fast travel. It made inventory management a chore, but fast travel and following bread crumb trails is the greater of two evils.

As a bonus, I also didn't encounter rain for the first 70 hours. By the time I got in the rain I already had plenty ways to deal with climbing through it :)

It's on Nintendo for providing a huge open world, go where you want in any order, then putting one rather important upgrade merchant in a single spot. The classic clash between linear and open world game design. BotW almost got it perfect, hence it's a 96 instead of a 97 ;)



Mar1217 said:

That's one thing I'm bothered with when people critic this system, they always cite weapons that are easy to break but late game shield,bows, sword, etc ... can last for effectively a long time, unless you go out of your way to fight a boss or a Lynel. Not only that, but you can find a lot of them with durability perks that increase the number of hits you can do.

Though, it is a process of thought that probably comes with an utilitarian mindset most likely. People with hoarding tendencies have better chances to be frustrated in this case. Weapons in the game were always meant to be discarded, yet most of the games in this industry don't partake in such mindset, they want players to be able to keep what they've earned.

Anywoo, doing a BOTW run where I imposed myself to not upgrade my inventory slots made me understand how this decision was actually a benefit to the survival aspect of this game.

Difference is, you're doing it now already having full knowledge of the game and all its systems. Much easier to manage inventory if you already know the game.
(Hence I did an off-line play through first in Death Stranding to have a completely unspoiled experience)



SvennoJ said:
Mar1217 said:

That's one thing I'm bothered with when people critic this system, they always cite weapons that are easy to break but late game shield,bows, sword, etc ... can last for effectively a long time, unless you go out of your way to fight a boss or a Lynel. Not only that, but you can find a lot of them with durability perks that increase the number of hits you can do.

Though, it is a process of thought that probably comes with an utilitarian mindset most likely. People with hoarding tendencies have better chances to be frustrated in this case. Weapons in the game were always meant to be discarded, yet most of the games in this industry don't partake in such mindset, they want players to be able to keep what they've earned.

Anywoo, doing a BOTW run where I imposed myself to not upgrade my inventory slots made me understand how this decision was actually a benefit to the survival aspect of this game.

Difference is, you're doing it now already having full knowledge of the game and all its systems. Much easier to manage inventory if you already know the game.
(Hence I did an off-line play through first in Death Stranding to have a completely unspoiled experience)

Tsk Tsk Tsk. My first playthrough was done following the linear path the game hinted at and I actually stopped my first playthrough after completing 2 of the 4 beast. I wasn't at the late game section yet so I was able to discovered a lot when exploring during this 2nd playthrough, I imposed myself the afore mentionned condition and doing the reversed path of the plot thread (going through the Gerudo Desert first, then the Rito's etc ...).

By doing so I understood that ennemies level scaled up faster, but so did the weapons too which meant I had access to late game weapons with added perks on a regular basis after the 40th hour of this 2nd playthrough.

Anyway, if my first playthrough was what I'd consider "love at first sight", the 2nd is what made me actually understand the decisions made by the developpement team.



Switch Friend Code : 3905-6122-2909 

Mar1217 said:

Tsk Tsk Tsk. My first playthrough was done following the linear path the game hinted at and I actually stopped my first playthrough after completing 2 of the 4 beast. I wasn't at the late game section yet so I was able to discovered a lot when exploring during this 2nd playthrough, I imposed myself the afore mentionned condition and doing the reversed path of the plot thread (going through the Gerudo Desert first, then the Rito's etc ...).

By doing so I understood that ennemies level scaled up faster, but so did the weapons too which meant I had access to late game weapons with added perks on a regular basis after the 40th hour of this 2nd playthrough.

Anyway, if my first playthrough was what I'd consider "love at first sight", the 2nd is what made me actually understand the decisions made by the developpement team.

Oh, I understand what they were going for. However I still disagree. I went the Gerudo, Rito route first as well, however without the knowledge of what might be useful later / somewhere else. What ingredients to look for / keep etc. Sure the weapons were stronger yet it didn't change the fact that after every fight and nearly during every fight I was in the inventory, swapping, discarding, selecting stuff. It breaks the flow, simple as that.

BotW, 96, too much inventory management :p

BotW had some odd enemy scaling as well btw. Random enemies scale with you, yet the area based enemies become super easy. Which kinda sucked since the  weapons dropped by the area based enemies are worthless for random encounters, and you don't want to use the good weapons to dispatch the fodder. More swapping! (I got harassed by those clan idiots for the longest time lol)