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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Digital Foundry- CoD Black Ops Cold War

smroadkill15 on 24 November 2020
DonFerrari said:

Did we get any rumor of PS5 tools being late or Xbox tools arriving to cover this comparison?

Why would there be? There is tons of evidence to back up the xbox tools coming in later. 



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Otter on 24 November 2020
DonFerrari said:
Otter said:

The scenes were more action orientated and the drops were very temporary. Its not especially odd. I don't think they contact devs everytime they see fps drops, Its not like Dirt where one console literally has last generation LOD on the vehicles. Or DMC where you had crazy differences in performance at times (50+ fps difference) and a completely unlocked fps that was running all over the place.

As far as the 120fps mode. Both systems miss their target a fair bit and thats what they expected, but 10 frames lost at 120fps is not the same experience as 10frames lost at 60fps. Given that they did not even expect 120fps this generation, I think its fair to say they will not be as harsh on 120fps targets as they are on 60. None the less they highlight PS5's advantage here, but neither are especially stable unless you have VRR. What likely confuses them is why the Xbox Series X version runs better in RT mode but worse in 120fps mode. There is nothing on paper or that they're aware of that would cause this difference. Maybe in time they will get a better grasp on the topic but right now their guess is as good as yours. If you have an idea, @ one of them on twitter.

But they have been contacting the devs on the comparisons in portions that favor PS5. They forgot to mention that the drops on PS5 in CoD were bugs... that is why they are getting their credibility questioned. For one side they are giving excuses, minimizing the issue or calling the devs to confirm, for the other it is "well it is less powerful so nothing unexpected". That is the reason why I say they are struggling to cope with the games showing different then what they expected.

Again, are they contacting devs for a few drops during setpieces or bigger wide set problems? If they have done that before for comparisons which favour playstation, I'd like to know what videos those are.

And I don't think they were aware of the fps drop being a bug. Regarding dirt 5 PS5 had a bug and they noted it



DonFerrari on 24 November 2020
Otter said:
DonFerrari said:

But they have been contacting the devs on the comparisons in portions that favor PS5. They forgot to mention that the drops on PS5 in CoD were bugs... that is why they are getting their credibility questioned. For one side they are giving excuses, minimizing the issue or calling the devs to confirm, for the other it is "well it is less powerful so nothing unexpected". That is the reason why I say they are struggling to cope with the games showing different then what they expected.

Again, are they contacting devs for a few drops during setpieces or bigger wide set problem? 

For the games that performed better in PS5 yes. And guess what through people pointing out to DF that the drop in the RT mode was a bug (it won't drop if you restart a checkpoint, don't always happen, didn't exist before a patch) on twitter John confirmed it, but well on the video that is missed.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari on 24 November 2020
smroadkill15 said:
DonFerrari said:

Did we get any rumor of PS5 tools being late or Xbox tools arriving to cover this comparison?

Why would there be? There is tons of evidence to back up the xbox tools coming in later. 

And what odd reason would explain the tools being late not affecting the Xbox version of this particular game?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Shiken on 24 November 2020

Looks like the XSX wins this one with a clear advantage. The hit with ray tracing that the PS5 sees is much bigger than the 2 frame advantage that it has in framerate mode.  Even then, for most people performance mode is a none factor because of their TV.

Difference is small though, just like with the games that the PS5 edges out. I really want to see the differences when devkits are mastered. Then it will be truly interesting.

Last edited by Shiken - on 24 November 2020

Nintendo Switch Friend Code: SW-5643-2927-1984

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Otter on 24 November 2020
DonFerrari said:
Otter said:

Again, are they contacting devs for a few drops during setpieces or bigger wide set problem? 

For the games that performed better in PS5 yes. And guess what through people pointing out to DF that the drop in the RT mode was a bug (it won't drop if you restart a checkpoint, don't always happen, didn't exist before a patch) on twitter John confirmed it, but well on the video that is missed.

This doesn't answer the question really. COD on PS5 doesn't have performance issues, just a few minor drops during set pieces. Off the top of my memory when they contacted devs, it was for much bigger performance issues or disparities. Like Dirt, DMC5 and AC5 where the Series X version has had big performance problems and bugs including a camera jittering during cutscenes. 

The DF guys didn't suspect the PS5 frame drops were a bug which is why they didn't report it as such. If the question is can things slip past them? Sure, I don't think anyone is saying otherwise. Stating bias however is something else entirely. And it should be mention that if on paper specs depict series X as the more powerful platform, taking this into account in your analysis does not count as bias



RolStoppable on 24 November 2020

Makes me glad that I didn't buy a PS5.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Shipments

PotentHerbs on 24 November 2020
smroadkill15 said:

You can make the same argument for XSX games running smooth minus a few hiccups, but yet it's a huge deal in those other comparison threads.

The Duelsense is a great controller, but I would never be the deciding factor on where I play a game. It's not like the series X controller is bad. it's an excellent controller with tons of QoL improvements. As long as ps controllers continue to have asymmetrical sticks, I will always prefer the Xbox controller.  

One reason its a huge deal is the marketing behind the Xbox Series X. Microsoft went on and on about "the worlds most powerful console," a few Xbox fans on this site expected a clear advantage, but all we're getting so far are identical multiplatform games. Also, no PS5 versions of multiplatform games have the issues that plague AC: Valhalla or Dirt 5. 



shikamaru317 on 24 November 2020
foodfather said:

While the deep dive from DF is appreciated , plenty of reviews have declared this games MP a visual downgrade from MW.

The whole debacle reminds me of Ghost a bit. Good graphics in the SP but the MP graphics and quality of gameplay are poor.

I'm not surprised really, this game was rushed out. Originally CoD 2020 was supposed to be a Sledgehammer game; since Sledgehammer's last CoD was WWII in 2017, it was Sledgehammers turn on the CoD studio rotation. However, there was some kind of falling out over at Sledgehammer with the founders leaving and then disagreements between Sledgehammer and Raven (who was co-developing it with them) on the direction of the game, so 1 year into development Activision took Sledgehammer off the project and Treyarch got brought in to convert their planned 2021 CoD multiplayer into multiplayer for 2020 CoD, with Raven put in charge of the Cold War campaign. So basically Cold War got 2 years of development, like CoD 1 through Ghosts, instead of 3 years of development like CoD Advanced Warfare through Modern Warfare 2019. And CoD 2021 will presumably have 2 years of development as well now because of the upheaval to the studio rotation, though we don't know yet if CoD 2021 will be Infinity Ward or Sledgehammer developed.

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 24 November 2020

Otter on 24 November 2020
JRPGfan said:
Otter said:

I think you're misunderstanding the purpose of DFs videos. They never spend much time looking at mean fps because it would make for pretty short clips, instead they analysis performance overall and focus in on any stress points. Stress points can be a very small % of gameplay so they won't make a huge impact on a mean fps, but that doesn't mean they're not noticable in a play through. i.e everytime a boss performs a certain attack. This has been typically of every video they make, if there are stress points they focus on it, even if its just a cutscene. 

Both games have a very stable FPS, they mention this, you also see it in the frame graph. But at 60fps the PS5 version shows occassional high percentage drops (going from 60fps to 50 or less), they stated this doesn't occur during gunplay when facing actual enemies. They don't mention mean fps because they're more interested in places where people will actually see drops and places where the system exhibit differences. None the less they do state and show that both systems are the majority of the time 60fps.

Anyone who watches DF's content should able to be aware of the fact that its just a tech breakdown. They look for technical aspects to speak about, I find it super interesting but at the same time when they zoom in to grass blades to show the difference in resolution between 2 versions of a game or show a few frames dropping in  the heaviest action, I know full well that won't impact my experience at all. If anyone comes away from a video like this thinking the PS5 version is bad or feeling defensive of it, they're watching more with their feelings than with their brain. And this goes for a lot of their content. People need to stop getting touchy about things they literally wouldn't be aware off if it wasn't for these tech breakdowns.

DF actually said this could be a bug, as well.

potentially a bug and you can fix this, as it appears randomly (ei. not always).
John even mentions that just restarting from a checkpoint, and redoing it, and its gone.
Some have said, even when they go past the same part, it isnt there (always).
So if its a performance issue that pops up randomly... possibly theres a fix to it.

But again... if you watch the DF video, you dont walk away from it thinking these two consoles both run 60fps mode with RT on, almost equally.
You just notice the two cherry picked stress points (or performance bug issues) DF ran into.

If lateron a patch removes this.... do you think DF appoligies for its representation in this video? and does another one, comparing the two again?


Also on Dirt 5, when they were quick to go talk about potential bugs (in the video itself).
With Call of Duty, they (john) lateron says its a likely bug in a tweet.

DF handle xbox and playstation slightly differntly (imo).
They are much kinder/softer towards microsoft and xbox.

They may apologies, they may not. Either way that apology would be to Treyach and not Sony, since the video is not a PS5 review but a review of how COD runs on the system. You have to think critically; a few drops happening in a game during cinematics doesn't automatically scream "bug" but a whole mode using far lower quality assets does. The reality is the new consoles have made a lot of you ultra sensitive, games are always patched and will often look/play slightly better after several months on the market. Its not for DF to tip toe around every potential performance drop that might be ironed out in future patches unless said thing obviously looks like a bug. Its not like they made excuses for the Xbox Series X version running worse at 120fps or said it was bug, so there's really no reason to be caught up on the topic. 

But I think that's the last I'll likely contribute towards any of these discussion because its turned very transparently into a console wars thing.