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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Digital Foundry - Dirt 5

shikamaru317 said:
eva01beserk said:

How could you claim they be lying all this time cuz they where bought and also that we shoukd belive them now and the tide will turn? 

Even where that to happen. Is that a good thing you should expect? I remember a time where straight up bullshit pr was scrutinize.

Never said it was a good thing, but it is commonplace in the industry for 3rd party devs to make up bs praise for either MS or Sony depending on who has marketing rights on their game. 

If that's the case why are you so quick to belive them when they claim a patch will fix everuthing soon? 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

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eva01beserk said:
shikamaru317 said:

Never said it was a good thing, but it is commonplace in the industry for 3rd party devs to make up bs praise for either MS or Sony depending on who has marketing rights on their game. 

If that's the case why are you so quick to belive them when they claim a patch will fix everuthing soon? 

Personally, I don't think one patch will fix everything, though I hope to be proven wrong. If the Game Core dev tools are still incomplete, and if the dev kits did go out late, it will probably take at least another month of optimization to get Series X caught up to PS5 on the 120hz mode, because the gap is quite significant now on that mode. But maybe they have gotten more optimization done in the last 12 days than I would have thought possible, and this upcoming patch will fix all of the performance issues. That is why I'm interested to see the DF test on the new patch, to see just how much this patch closes the gap between Series X and PS5, if it closes it at all.



shikamaru317 said:
eva01beserk said:

If that's the case why are you so quick to belive them when they claim a patch will fix everuthing soon? 

Personally, I don't think one patch will fix everything, though I hope to be proven wrong. If the Game Core dev tools are still incomplete, and if the dev kits did go out late, it will probably take at least another month of optimization to get Series X caught up to PS5 on the 120hz mode, because the gap is quite significant now on that mode. But maybe they have gotten more optimization done in the last 12 days than I would have thought possible, and this upcoming patch will fix all of the performance issues. That is why I'm interested to see the DF test on the new patch, to see just how much this patch closes the gap between Series X and PS5, if it closes it at all.

If it is just a bug of selecting the profile of X1 or Series S like DF speculates then it wouldn't take one month to correct that part of the code.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

JRPGfan said:

reguarding nr 3)
Its not a matter of devs being lazy.
You can rule that out.

If it happends once? maybe, but not when its a patern thats developed (6 games outta 7, favor PS5 (so far outta the compairsons we ve seen)).
1 dev can be lazy about porting to a system, but they cant all be.

Also 2 of these, where by studios with Xbox Marketing.
They wouldnt do a sloppy/lazy job, when their getting paid marketing rights to show off their new game (in its best possible light).
It doesnt make any sense to think so.

Ehmm, excuse me, but what is the link here? Marketing rights have nothing to do with the quality of the game. Because when a platform holder pays the publisher to have the game marketed for their platform, there is no such thing in the signed contract as "The game should look better on our console than on our rival's console". They just pay a sum to publisher to put their platform's name on every marketing material and that's about it. Not to mention that usually it's the publisher who gets this money and not the developer.



 

DonFerrari said:
shikamaru317 said:

Personally, I don't think one patch will fix everything, though I hope to be proven wrong. If the Game Core dev tools are still incomplete, and if the dev kits did go out late, it will probably take at least another month of optimization to get Series X caught up to PS5 on the 120hz mode, because the gap is quite significant now on that mode. But maybe they have gotten more optimization done in the last 12 days than I would have thought possible, and this upcoming patch will fix all of the performance issues. That is why I'm interested to see the DF test on the new patch, to see just how much this patch closes the gap between Series X and PS5, if it closes it at all.

If it is just a bug of selecting the profile of X1 or Series S like DF speculates then it wouldn't take one month to correct that part of the code.

Even if it is a bug, just enabling the higher graphics settings on Series X might not be enough to catch Series X up to PS5, enabling those higher graphics settings could potentially lower the framerate on the 120 fps mode to below the framerate on the PS5 120 fps mode, which would take extra optimization time to fix. We'll have to wait and see the test of the patch. 



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shikamaru317 said:
DonFerrari said:

If it is just a bug of selecting the profile of X1 or Series S like DF speculates then it wouldn't take one month to correct that part of the code.

Even if it is a bug, just enabling the higher graphics settings on Series X might not be enough to catch Series X up to PS5, enabling those higher graphics settings could potentially lower the framerate on the 120 fps mode to below the framerate on the PS5 120 fps mode, which would take extra optimization time to fix. We'll have to wait and see the test of the patch. 

If it is a bug then it should just be a matter of correcting it, if it brings performance to erratic sub 120fps than it is pretty clear it wasn't a bug.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
shikamaru317 said:

Even if it is a bug, just enabling the higher graphics settings on Series X might not be enough to catch Series X up to PS5, enabling those higher graphics settings could potentially lower the framerate on the 120 fps mode to below the framerate on the PS5 120 fps mode, which would take extra optimization time to fix. We'll have to wait and see the test of the patch. 

If it is a bug then it should just be a matter of correcting it, if it brings performance to erratic sub 120fps than it is pretty clear it wasn't a bug.

Exactly. What he claims is a devs choice and trying to pass off as a bug. It canot be both a choice and a bug at the same time depending on the outcome. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

eva01beserk said:
DonFerrari said:

If it is a bug then it should just be a matter of correcting it, if it brings performance to erratic sub 120fps than it is pretty clear it wasn't a bug.

Exactly. What he claims is a devs choice and trying to pass off as a bug. It canot be both a choice and a bug at the same time depending on the outcome. 

It is a very special bug, one that worsen graphical quality but improve framerate and stability... in other places also know as trade-off.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

shikamaru317 said:
DonFerrari said:

If it is just a bug of selecting the profile of X1 or Series S like DF speculates then it wouldn't take one month to correct that part of the code.

Even if it is a bug, just enabling the higher graphics settings on Series X might not be enough to catch Series X up to PS5, enabling those higher graphics settings could potentially lower the framerate on the 120 fps mode to below the framerate on the PS5 120 fps mode, which would take extra optimization time to fix. We'll have to wait and see the test of the patch. 

This is too logical for this thread.



DonFerrari said:
Ryuu96 said:

Anonymous people do tend to be more honest, I don't think it's unbelievable to suggest that a developer which has a marketing partnership with Xbox isn't exactly going to say negative things about their tools.

The stuff I posted here: https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9247175 are from official documents straight from Microsoft which shows the SDK is coming in hot.

With the next generation of the Xbox console, Microsoft is working on a new development environment called Game Core. The environment is now available to developers building titles for the series X and series S (Lockhart) but it’s not quite finished yet and won’t be finished before the release of the upcoming consoles.

The purpose of Game Core is two-fold, to make it easier to develop games for the two SKUs of series X/S and it is designed to make game development closer to that of building a traditional Windows 10 application.

This doesn’t mean that there will not be more updates arriving to the GDK before release, but it does mean that the June 2020 GDK will be the baseline for developing next-generation titles.

Considering Game Core is all new, not everything will be ready for the launch of the consoles. While developers can now use the June 2020 release for games that will head to retail, features like “Multi-process games in Game Core” will not arrive until after launch. There is a work-around for this in the current release, so fret not that this means games can’t be multi-threaded.

The takeaway here is that Microsoft’s Game Core is moving full-steam ahead and will be ready for launch later this year. But it’s not complete and there are quite a few bugs/optimization that need to be worked out before all the functionality meets the targeted spec sheet when the project was first started.

"anonymous sources" have been used to spread a lot of FUD, much more than to tell the truth about what no one else wants to talk. And have been like that in other media as well. So I rather believe on several people with a face than rumors from anonymous source, if we were to believe that then PS5 is a 8Tf console that got a rushed overclock that made the console being finished only in August while melting/burning down on factories.

I saw your post, and unless I read that wrong is final version, not that the devs weren't already using the tools in preview (because that would put the devs that openly talked as liars, because they were directly answering instead of just dodging question). And from the way you phrased it didn't came straight from MS document, it came from a reliable insider (we had reliable insiders talking RE VIII was running only at 1080p on PS5 and some other stuff like that).

No developing tool is ever finished truly, they keep evolving and improving. Their DirectX 12 is already something that is building like in the PC, and considering PS4 even though Sony doesn't develop for PC had a very easy time porting back and forth between the two. So I doubt GDK is so alien stuff.

Next-gen only titles will come by 2022 probably, so does GDK cover the crossgen efforts or their will have to develop in GDK plus another version for the older gen?

Just to remember UE5 hadn't even be formelly announced, and on the day it was announced MS was very fast to ensure Ninja Theory was already using it.

Lets try it this way, lets think of the GDK prior to June 2020 as the 'Alpha', so the June 2020 version would be the 'Beta' but as stated in the article, the finished version won't be complete until after the launch of consoles, so lets call that 1.0.

You're correct that they'll be updates to tools even after release, lets call them Ver 1.1, 1.2, etc. but the current version is not the complete version, it isn't the version they have targeted for in spec sheets, it is un-optimised, missing key features, buggy, etc. and was rushed to release.

The document itself is from leaked official Microsoft documents, which also leaked stuff about Lockhart, Thurrot is a very respected and very reliable site when it comes to Microsoft, there's not much reason to doubt them but I'm pretty sure that it wasn't just Thurrot who leaked this stuff either.

This new GDK does cover cross-gen efforts.

Essentially, the Xbox development environment used to be XDK, they dumped that for Series X/S and made a new GDK, this ones main purpose is to make development across multiple devices easier, as stated in the spec sheet it covers PC, Xbox One, Series X/S and xCloud.

Gears 5 was posted above but if Gears 5 is anything like Halo MCC (I can't check right now) but if you check file info you can see that some games are still running the XDK, Halo MCC even with Series X/S enhancements is running the XDK and not the new GDK.

It wasn't until June 2020 when developers could have their games approved for certification/publication, the June 2020 GDK is the baseline for developing next gen titles, it came in pretty hot, coupled with the situation we're in with the pandemic and everything, rushed launches it is no surprise developers are missing things and/or not used to the SDK yet.

Not sure what your point is with Unreal Engine 5...That will go through a similar process, it's likely that developers are using an early access version of Unreal Engine 5 right now or will eventually, with the final version launching in late 2021.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 22 November 2020