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Forums - Movies & TV - Johnny Depp asked to resign from Fantastic Beasts series after court loss, #3 delayed

shikamaru317 said:

Finally

shikamaru317 said:
Runa216 said:

Wait, you're pro-JKR? Yep, I guess I'm not surprised. 

Yep. While I certainly don't support everything she does, as I lean more toward the right of center and her towards the left of center, I definitely support her current battle for the rights of biological females to have their own sports and their own safe spaces (restrooms/locker rooms, women's shelters, prisons, etc.); their right to not be subjected to embarrassing sports losses like we have seen with Lia Thomas recently, their right to be able to go into a locker room or bathroom without seeing a penis, their right to go to prison that only contains other women and not "women" with penises between their legs. On that I stand with JK, and I suspect that the majority of people agree with her on that. The fact that the left has chosen such a strange issue to cancel her over is baffling to me.

Playing an eye for an eye is slowly working towards balancing things luckily. If the discipline and canceling rules are going to remain in this game, the side that introduced it is going to have to accept it when the opponent decides to apply the rules as well. Fair is fair.

On a side note, I still don't understand why trans sports hasn't become a thing. If the woman playing with the men wasn't working out, which led to woman's sports, which slowly grew and is working out, why not just copy the model? It couldn't be any easier. It's not like the money isn't there. Just look at the US womans soccer team. Why do things the hard way is beyond me.



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Runa216 said:
shikamaru317 said:

Yep. While I certainly don't support everything she does, as I lean more toward the right of center and her towards the left of center, I definitely support her current battle for the rights of biological females to have their own sports and their own safe spaces (restrooms/locker rooms, women's shelters, prisons, etc.); their right to not be subjected to embarrassing sports losses like we have seen with Lia Thomas recently, their right to be able to go into a locker room or bathroom without seeing a penis, their right to go to prison that only contains other women and not "women" with penises between their legs. On that I stand with JK, and I suspect that the majority of people agree with her on that. The fact that the left has chosen such a strange issue to cancel her over is baffling to me.

IT's kind of telling that you make a point to clarify that you don't see eye to eye because she's left of center...but then go on to extol the virtues of the one thing she says/does that's bigoted and parroted by the right. 

I mean, I've done a tonne of research on trans biology and psychology, and I will assure you that none of your concerns  (or hers) are valid based on any stats or facts of historical precedent...but I also know that I could write a 10,000 word essay on the matter with links to studies and detailed psychological breakdowns on why each of these concerns are misguided or based on falsehoods...but I know it won't do anything. All most people think is 'ew, girls with penises are gross', but they know that's bigoted so they find the more appealing sounding but equally asanine 'there's a potential for people to fake it just to be pervs and therefore that invalidates all trans people' narrative. 

with all sincerity, I can assure you no trans people are faking it just to get a look at girls in the bathroom. IT's just not a thing that happens with any semblance of regularity. does it happen? sure, anything you can think of probably has happened. but any person could murder you with a gun but you don't ban people from public spaces just because an infinitesimally small fraction of the populace is prone to unacceptable behaviour. Nobody's going through years of therapy, hormone replacement treatment, surgery, and a lifetime of discomfort/public ridicule to present as their true self just to get pervy looks at women in bathrooms. 

Your stance on the matter is not grounded in reality and I truly hope that some day you'll get some perspective beyond 'ewww, girls with penises are gross and therefore wrong', which clearly is the basis and starting point of like 99% of all transphobia. 

You know how I know? I used to be the exact same way. I used to think the exact same thing. But then....then I did a bit more research, compared the pros and cons of someone in that situation, actually read the studies and acquainted myself with a few trans ladies....and that's all it took. some perspective and an open mind. Then you'll see your concerns are completely unfounded and based on faulty logic. 

but then again I can't tell you that you aren't entitled to your emotions. Again, I used to feel the same way. However, regardless of your stance on the matter, it's still a form of bigotry and once you learn to get over that and realize that your fears are unfounded, maybe you'll change your perspective. 

It honestly baffles me that so many people out there are on that side of the argument. Y'all realize that in 5-10 years you'll be as ostracized for your views as people today are if they call gay dudes fags or something. That's how progress works. As we come to understand more of the human psyche, as we come to see how things work and how our bodies work and how the mind works, the clearer understanding we'll have about what's good, what's bad, what's neutral, and how to deal with it. Trans folks get a tonne of hatred, and none of it is based in reality, it's all based on emotional responses to the icky penis ladies. 

Tell me, do you also not want gay dudes in men's restrooms in case straight guys get uncomfortable having a gay dude checking them out? Honest question. 

I mean, I'm not saying I don't see both sides and I'm not in any way saying this is the norm, in fact, I know it isn't, but when you have people like this guy claiming to be trans despite not looking or acting in any way feminine and then using the anti-trans discrimination law to "justify" peeping on girls changing even after being asked to leave, I can see the cause for concern.

I've even heard people say he "technically" didn't violate any law because the Washington anti-trans discrimination law somehow "gives" him the right to do just that. No, it doesn't. There is already a law for that in all 50 states: it's called stalking. Try going into any women's locker room to watch them change, then come back after being asked to leave (for good reason, might I add) to stare at them through the window and see where that gets you. He or any other pervs looking to abuse said law can "claim" they're trans until they're blue in the face, but their actions clearly say otherwise. By all means, you can have these trans protection laws on the books allowing them to use their preferred bathroom and still draw the line at pervs pretending to be trans, which this guy (and that's what I'm gonna call him, and it's totally appropriate) clearly was. You show me a "woman" with a huge jawline, pecs, muscles, dong, short hair, border shorts, possible facial/body hair and men's underwear who goes in to watch (read: peep at) "other" girls changing after flashing his junk and I'll show you a Bill Cosby (wannabe?):

The only place where I could see jurors/authorities not being able to put 2 and 2 together that this guy's a creeper posing as trans is Florida seeing how they can't even get their own Stand Your Ground law right and they let Casey Anthony walk. On what grounds is this adequate self-defense (a minor illegally carrying a loaded firearm notwithstanding)?

Last edited by KManX89 - on 10 April 2022

Johnny Depp vs Amber Heard trial starts tomorrow here in my home state of Virginia. Fingers crossed for Johnny to finally see justice, I don't see how any jury could look at the evidence and side with Amber at this point:

-She can't back up $7m in donations she was supposed to make with the money she received from her divorce settlement with receipts

-The first 2 police officers who showed up have gone on record saying that they saw no evidence of domestic abuse on her and no property damage

-We have the recording of Amber saying that she couldn't promise not to hit Johnny anymore

-We have the photo of Johnny's finger severed after she threw a heavy ashtray at him

-We have Amber's past domestic violence arrest in 2009

-2 of Amber's character witnesses who will be called during the trial are James Franco (himself accused of sexual coercion by 6 women) and Elon Musk (who Johnny claims committed adultery with Amber while he was still married to Amber), not exactly shining examples of Amber's character

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 10 April 2022

shikamaru317 said:

Johnny Depp vs Amber Heard trial starts tomorrow here in my home state of Virginia. Fingers crossed for Johnny to finally see justice, I don't see how any jury could look at the evidence and side with Amber at this point:

-She can't back up $7m in donations she was supposed to make with the money she received from her divorce settlement with receipts

-The first 2 police officers who showed up have gone on record saying that they saw no evidence of domestic abuse on her and no property damage

-We have the recording of Amber saying that she couldn't promise not to hit Johnny anymore

-We have the photo of Johnny's finger severed after she threw a heavy ashtray at him

-We have Amber's past domestic violence arrest in 2009

-2 of Amber's character witnesses who will be called during the trial are James Franco (himself accused of sexual coercion by 6 women) and Elon Musk (who Johnny claims committed adultery with Amber while he was still married to Amber), not exactly shining examples of Amber's character

Don't forget police bodycam proving everything she said was a lie, injury-free photos taken mere days or even hours after her obviously-doctored "injury" photos that she ignored judge's orders to get authenticated (because she knows they're fake), Johnny's other witnesses saying they saw no injuries on her, her countless other lies and contradictions in her story, the list goes on.

But apparently, the Turd is getting obliterated at trial. We're only rolling onto day 3, and already we have this bombshell deposition being dropped (she asked the hotel manager to lie for her, and he said NO!):

I, too hope Johnny is finally able to see justice and I hope Scamber gets what she fucking deserves. 



And wouldn't you know it? Another day, another episode of "WB reaping what they sowed":

Me @ WB right now:

Talk about a bombshell, almost as big as the ones dropped on AH in court this week. Fantastic Beasts? More like Fantastic Flop.

Sorry, couldn't resist, mate.

Last edited by KManX89 - on 17 April 2022

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KManX89 said:

And wouldn't you know it? Another day, another episode of "WB reaping what they sowed":

Me @ WB right now:

Talk about a bombshell, almost as big as the ones dropped on AH in court this week. Fantastic Beasts? More like Fantastic Flop.

Sorry, couldn't resist, mate.

It does seem like it will at least break even though, already at $193m worldwide after 2 weekends international (only 1 weekend in most international markets, as the first week was only 22 markets) and 1 weekend domestic. Needs $400-450m to break even. User reviews have been good (83% positive on Rotten Tomatoes with 4.3/5 average, B+ CinemaScore, 81% PostTrak) so the good word of mouth should contribute to pretty good legs for it, so I think box office should at least come close to the break even point with Blu-Ray/DVD/Digital sales turning them a small profit in the end, as well as the movie getting good streaming views on HBO Max once it hits HBO Max. I think that WB will be happy with a performance like that during Covid (we've seen them greenlight sequels to movies that did worse during Covid), and will go ahead and greenlight 4 and 5 to finish the series out, probably with a somewhat lower budget than 2's and 3's $200m each budgets (filming 4 and 5 back to back would also cut down on their combined budget vs filming them separately). 

This was probably the best case scenario for me, I wanted the movie to do well enough to get 4 and 5 greenlit, but also to perform under WB expectations to punish them for what they did to Johnny while also keeping Amber and Ezra employed.

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 18 April 2022

shikamaru317 said:
KManX89 said:

And wouldn't you know it? Another day, another episode of "WB reaping what they sowed":

Me @ WB right now:

Talk about a bombshell, almost as big as the ones dropped on AH in court this week. Fantastic Beasts? More like Fantastic Flop.

Sorry, couldn't resist, mate.

It does seem like it will at least break even though, already at $193m worldwide after 2 weekends international (only 1 weekend in most international markets, as the first week was only 22 markets) and 1 weekend domestic. Needs $400-450m to break even. User reviews have been good (83% positive on Rotten Tomatoes with 4.3/5 average, B+ CinemaScore, 81% PostTrak) so the good word of mouth should contribute to pretty good legs for it, so I think box office should at least come close to the break even point with Blu-Ray/DVD/Digital sales turning them a small profit in the end, as well as the movie getting good streaming views on HBO Max once it hits HBO Max. I think that WB will be happy with a performance like that during Covid (we've seen them greenlight sequels to movies that did worse during Covid), and will go ahead and greenlight 4 and 5 to finish the series out, probably with a somewhat lower budget than 2's and 3's $200m each budgets (filming 4 and 5 back to back would also cut down on their combined budget vs filming them separately). 

This was probably the best case scenario for me, I wanted the movie to do well enough to get 4 and 5 greenlit, but also to perform under WB expectations to punish them for what they did to Johnny while also keeping Amber and Ezra employed.

IMDB user score is far far lower (6.6). On par with the 2nd movie.

My wife dragged me in to see it and we both had the opinion that it wasn't good. Slightly better than the abysmal second movie but a far cry from the first.

Wouldn't recommend at all, not even to the most hard core Harry Potter fan.



Barozi said:
shikamaru317 said:

It does seem like it will at least break even though, already at $193m worldwide after 2 weekends international (only 1 weekend in most international markets, as the first week was only 22 markets) and 1 weekend domestic. Needs $400-450m to break even. User reviews have been good (83% positive on Rotten Tomatoes with 4.3/5 average, B+ CinemaScore, 81% PostTrak) so the good word of mouth should contribute to pretty good legs for it, so I think box office should at least come close to the break even point with Blu-Ray/DVD/Digital sales turning them a small profit in the end, as well as the movie getting good streaming views on HBO Max once it hits HBO Max. I think that WB will be happy with a performance like that during Covid (we've seen them greenlight sequels to movies that did worse during Covid), and will go ahead and greenlight 4 and 5 to finish the series out, probably with a somewhat lower budget than 2's and 3's $200m each budgets (filming 4 and 5 back to back would also cut down on their combined budget vs filming them separately). 

This was probably the best case scenario for me, I wanted the movie to do well enough to get 4 and 5 greenlit, but also to perform under WB expectations to punish them for what they did to Johnny while also keeping Amber and Ezra employed.

IMDB user score is far far lower (6.6). On par with the 2nd movie.

My wife dragged me in to see it and we both had the opinion that it wasn't good. Slightly better than the abysmal second movie but a far cry from the first.

Wouldn't recommend at all, not even to the most hard core Harry Potter fan.

True, but IMDb's user scores are often significantly different than other user review sites. For instance their The Last Jedi user reviews were significantly higher than Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic, I think it was something like 7.1/10 on IMDb vs 40% positive and 2.5/5 (or 5/10) on Rotten Tomatoes last time I looked. Another for instance would be Star Trek Picard, 7.5/10 on IMDb vs a 47% overall, 37% season 2 on Rotten Tomatoes. I personally suspect there is some kind of left/right political divide between the audiences who use IMDb vs the other user review sites, with IMDb's userbase trending further to the left, as I have noticed that the left wing fans tend to like the Star Wars sequel trilogy and the newest Star Trek shows while the right wing fans don't like them very much at all. If that theory of mine checks out, that could also explain why IMDb's Fantastic Beasts 3 user reviews are lower than the other user review sites, with the left targeting it with lower scores due to JK Rowling's stand against trans people invading women's spaces. 

Personally I saw Fantastic Beasts 3 last night and enjoyed it, it was actually my 3rd favorite movie I have seen for the first time this year so far (the other 2 were Guardians of the Galaxy 1 and 2 which I watched for the first time on my full MCU chronological order rewatch). I liked it better than other MCU movies that I saw for the first time this year like Black Panther, Thor 2, Captain America 2, Ant-Man, and Black Widow. I agree that FB 3 is better than 2, but I personally thought it was about on par with the first.

Spoiler!
I quite liked the new character, Lally (in fact she is my new 2nd favorite character of the series after Jakob), the action scenes were the best out of the 3 movies imo, and I enjoyed the overall storyline in spite of the predictable twist. On the downside, I wasn't overly fond of the amount of focus on the Dumbledore-Grindelwald gay relationship, nor did I like that Tina's role was limited to a cameo appearance. 
Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 18 April 2022

Mads was a superior Grindelwald so justice was done. The films decline has nothing to do with Johnny Depp, just as Crimes of Grinderwald declined and underperformed despite him being front and center of marketing. The Fantastic Beast films just don't have draw as a franchise, no.2 killed most remaining interest and the focus is too confused and Newt is shoehorned into the narrative. They need to condense 4/5 into one movie, then focus on the Wizarding World on TV and games.



And yeah I quite enjoyed it.

Better than the second, more interesting & cinematic than the first but still weak plot wise and not as charming or whittty as FB1. JKs writing has not been good for these films