You do not need to suggest anything, I understand the context of the middle east and why it is how it is there (as much as I could at least) and as you keep calling Macron names, telling me that I need to learn or calling this other guy a "bigot" is not really helping your cause either.
The conversation is about France and other "western" countries where the problem is. And the fact that there is a history and "reason" for those countries to be like that does not make them less barbaric, I'm not even sure why you are telling me to "learn" more about it like this would make it different...
When something like that happens (way too often, and my country has been the target of many of those attacks in the past years (France)).
By crisis, Macron is telling this: The Islamic church needs to step up.
Why is that so offending to you. You keep saying how appealed the Islam church was when this happened in Nice, well guess what, nobody really saw that and that is one of the main issues (not saying it was not true, but the reality is that we just saw little of it from the outside world and this is part of the problem).
Because of those countries that are letting things go barbaric for any reason and when the religion is so intricate within politics, it completely overshadow any good will or act from Islamic leaders over the worlds that are BY FAR in minority at the end.
You keep calling Muslim countries barbaric when the real barbarism is the US starting a war in Iraq that killed a million plus Muslims. You also forget US, Saudi and Pakistan had a hand in creating the Al Qaeda and making them more even open to suicide which is against Islam. You also forget that the most affected people from the scummy terrorists are Muslims. For every attack in France, there are a few dozen to even hundreds in countries like Pakistan. And as I said even with vast overexxageration, only 20% does not a consensus make. Plus I told you to learn because usually knowledge is the best recipe for meaningless hate.
But I am sick and tired of my religion being used by scum for their own goals and also being attacked and used and mischaracterized by bad faith actors in the west while our community suffers the most from these scum acts. Like the west invades us and terrorists also kill us and then our religion is attacked as well. We are the followers of Islam and we know what our religion is, not terrorists or the west. It is not a religion in crisis and we can talk about it ourselves. We don't need white saviours. We define our religion and we are the ones that keep saying terrorists are not right about Islam but you all choose to believe the 0.005% who are scum instead of the 99.995%
You are assuming a lot of things and you think that people need to learn to agree with you is simply wrong.
- You are using "hate" a lot. I do not think I said anything about hating Muslims, Islam or even religions in general. No, I do not hate Islam or Muslims.
Thinking that something needs to change is different from hating...
- You keep saying that I should learn to basically change my opinion. So you start off with the assumption that because I disagree with you, I need to learn which is why we have a different opinion. No, I do not need to learn, I completely disagree with you on several topics and I already explained myself. And while I am in the center of this like you are (Muslim community), I am (like all France) impacted by it. Don't pretend you are the victim here (or at least the only one).
- If you believe the US is barbaric too fine. But again, the discussion is not about that right now. And you call what the US did "real" barbarism, that's on you. Cause while I also disagree with several of the US moves and stands (and agree that what they did is bad). I find what is going in the majority of Muslim countries WAY more barbaric based on my personal conviction and believes; also again, just because probably the number of attacks in Pakistan and other countries are way worse (and more often than in France) does not make it less important. And this is the point of the discussion today, I'm not going to ignore it cause it is actually worse somewhere else. It does not make it right in the first place, sorry.
No, I do not need to learn, I already did that. And I am honestly very sorry about the impact of terrorism on your religion and your community; it is very unfair too. I have friends that are Muslims and they are in the same boat and they are the nicest people I know. But they also believe that something needs to change.
Last edited by Imaginedvl - on 01 November 2020