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Forums - Politics Discussion - A French teacher beheaded, chaos ensues, EU warns Turkey of sanctions

Eagle367 said:
The actual problem is that Macron called Islam "a religion in crisis" and he wanted to "reform" Islam. Who is he to tell all the Muslims what their religion is and that he is capable enough to "reform" out religion. He is an idiot. All Muslims would have backed him if he just talked against the terrorists but no, he chose to attack the religion and blame it, not the terrorists. The only Muslims he made happy are the terrorists who can use his statements for their brainwashing and propaganda. Also the attack in Nice has been confirmed to be done by far right extremists, not Muslim extremists so make a correction to the thread mate.

Freedom of speach should be a basic human right.

If muslims cannot except that your allowed to make fun of, or critize, anyone (even muhammed) they can use words, or argue about it.
You are not allowed to go around and behead people (because you dont like things they have said).

Islam needs a reform.
its liveing in a the past (like the world was still back in the 1400 centuray).

Condeming terrorist doesnt do anything.
Radiacal Muslims still keep doing terror attacks (and have been for like 100 of years).

If muslims cannot live in a free society, one with freedom of speach they are free to leave it tbh.
All these extreme muslims can just move right out of france of where ever, and go back to a society that suits them more.
Do they want to live under a preist ruled dictatorship? with Sharia laws? cool just move out of the EU.

Its tireing that theres attacks by muslims so often.
Bending over backways to suit them, when they moved to other countried and are trying to change the country they moved in..... isnt how things should be. A minority shouldnt be able to bully their way to change, by use of force/fear.



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TheBraveGallade said:
people are talking like cristianity wasn't this bad three centuries ago...
islam needs to be reformed, just as christianity has.

this, cristianity was out of controll 300-400 years ago.
That was along time ago though. We changed.

Islam is liveing in the past, it needs a reform now.
We in the modern times, cannot accept a world with shaira laws, honor killings, denial of free speach, and people that go around killing for seemingly no reason (apart from hate, due to teachings of their religion).

Muslims need to own up to it.



Macron is the world's most sensible leader at the moment

care how you use the word 'religion', you can't put all faiths in a bucket just because you are atheist, it is not religious extremism, it is Islamic extremism

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48146305

https://providencemag.com/2020/04/world-ignoring-christian-genocide-nigeria/

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/new-calls-for-us-sanctions-on-turkey-for-christian-persecution-31519

we have freedom of speech and beliefs in Europe, but I'm sure many Christians are now scared to go to church, I am scared to go to church, and this is not something that is supposed to happen in today's 'forward moving' Europe



don't mind my username, that was more than 10 years ago, I'm a different person now, amazing how people change ^_^

JRPGfan said:
TheBraveGallade said:
people are talking like cristianity wasn't this bad three centuries ago...
islam needs to be reformed, just as christianity has.

this, cristianity was out of controll 300-400 years ago.
That was along time ago though. We changed.

Islam is liveing in the past, it needs a reform now.
We in the modern times, cannot accept a world with shaira laws, honor killings, denial of free speach, and people that go around killing for seemingly no reason (apart from hate, due to teachings of their religion).

Muslims need to own up to it.

the most basic in Christianity is living like Jesus Christ lived, as close as you can at least since none of us will ever be perfect

so it wasn't Christianity really, but some evil men that took advantage of the church's influence to ensure they remain in control of everything by force

with Islam it's a very different story, Mohammed being the highest human in the faith was a warlord

"Muhammad attacked other groups as well. In 629, Muslims attacked a Jewish settlement in the oasis of Khaybar in Northwestern Arabia. Shortly after the conquest of Mecca, Muhammad received Surah 9:29, which ordered Muslims to fight non-Muslims (including Christians and Jews) until they submit to Islam"
https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/historical-muhammad-the-good-bad-downright-ugly/

check the faith map in Africa and the Middle East, where Islam rules no other faith survives, but southern Africa for example is Christian mainly with many other smaller faiths



don't mind my username, that was more than 10 years ago, I'm a different person now, amazing how people change ^_^

dark_gh0st_b0y said:
Macron is the world's most sensible leader at the moment

care how you use the word 'religion', you can't put all faiths in a bucket just because you are atheist, it is not religious extremism, it is Islamic extremism

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48146305

https://providencemag.com/2020/04/world-ignoring-christian-genocide-nigeria/

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/new-calls-for-us-sanctions-on-turkey-for-christian-persecution-31519

we have freedom of speech and beliefs in Europe, but I'm sure many Christians are now scared to go to church, I am scared to go to church, and this is not something that is supposed to happen in today's 'forward moving' Europe

I would argue Jacinda Ardern is probably the most sensible...



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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dark_gh0st_b0y said:
JRPGfan said:

this, cristianity was out of controll 300-400 years ago.
That was along time ago though. We changed.

Islam is liveing in the past, it needs a reform now.
We in the modern times, cannot accept a world with shaira laws, honor killings, denial of free speach, and people that go around killing for seemingly no reason (apart from hate, due to teachings of their religion).

Muslims need to own up to it.

the most basic in Christianity is living like Jesus Christ lived, as close as you can at least since none of us will ever be perfect

so it wasn't Christianity really, but some evil men that took advantage of the church's influence to ensure they remain in control of everything by force

with Islam it's a very different story, Mohammed being the highest human in the faith was a warlord

"Muhammad attacked other groups as well. In 629, Muslims attacked a Jewish settlement in the oasis of Khaybar in Northwestern Arabia. Shortly after the conquest of Mecca, Muhammad received Surah 9:29, which ordered Muslims to fight non-Muslims (including Christians and Jews) until they submit to Islam"
https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/historical-muhammad-the-good-bad-downright-ugly/

check the faith map in Africa and the Middle East, where Islam rules no other faith survives, but southern Africa for example is Christian mainly with many other smaller faiths

He also had multiple wives, and married a 12yo.
But apparently hes a holy man, who if you make a depiction of him (a drawing) other muslims will hunt you down and kill you for it.



Someone should declare himself the last prophet and remove violent or intolerant verses from Quran explaining they were evilly and deceptively suggested to Muhammad by Satan after Khadijah died and could not defend and help him anymore.



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JWeinCom said:
Eagle367 said:

Islam doesn't have a central organized thing like the papacy. It's very decentralized so there are more so local leaders than global leaders of the entire Muslim community ( not islamic community). But a lot of scholars have condemned these sorts of acts hundreds upon thousands of times. Any legitimate scholar of Islam condemns these acts.

That's a no true Scotsman fallacy. You can't just discount anyone who doesn't condemn it as not representative of Islam.

I don't know if I buy that these people are merely a fringe group. There are currently 16 Islamic countries where blasphemy can be punished by imprisonment or death. I'm not saying all of them would necessarily endorse beheading for drawing Muhammed, but that's a big chunk of the Muslim world where it would be illegal, and it's not surprising that kind of backdrop can foster extremism.

You didn't understand my point. I didn't say that anyone not condemning it is not a true scholar of Islam, I said all true scholars of Islam condemned it because it doesn't fall into any mainstream interpretation of Islam. And to be frank with you, leaders of the Muslim world  aren't the best representatives of Islam because they have a lot of unislamic things going for them. Like in Pakistan, Zia Ul Haq just made laws that sounded like islamic doctrine aka pseudo-shariah to give power and credence to his dictatorship, and the wahabism of Saudi Arabia isn't really an old and accepted mainstream scholarly position. It's a "reform" of Islam. It's new age Islam which isn't that compatible with old Islam. You can check you Sheikh Hammadi as an example of a scholar with knowledge.

And a true scholar has nothing to do with whether they condemn the attacks or not but rather how much knowledge they have of the subject.



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

JRPGfan said:
dark_gh0st_b0y said:

the most basic in Christianity is living like Jesus Christ lived, as close as you can at least since none of us will ever be perfect

so it wasn't Christianity really, but some evil men that took advantage of the church's influence to ensure they remain in control of everything by force

with Islam it's a very different story, Mohammed being the highest human in the faith was a warlord

"Muhammad attacked other groups as well. In 629, Muslims attacked a Jewish settlement in the oasis of Khaybar in Northwestern Arabia. Shortly after the conquest of Mecca, Muhammad received Surah 9:29, which ordered Muslims to fight non-Muslims (including Christians and Jews) until they submit to Islam"
https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/historical-muhammad-the-good-bad-downright-ugly/

check the faith map in Africa and the Middle East, where Islam rules no other faith survives, but southern Africa for example is Christian mainly with many other smaller faiths

He also had multiple wives, and married a 12yo.
But apparently hes a holy man, who if you make a depiction of him (a drawing) other muslims will hunt you down and kill you for it.

*Terrorists, not Muslims. Also you don't understand why images of Muhammad aren't allowed. They aren't allowed because Muhammad shouldn't be worshipped like God is worshipped. Not like how Christians worship the image of Christ. So images of Muhammad were forbidden. And Muslims have to follow the example of Muhammad, which is why I don't really give a damn about the stupid drawings. It is obviously to anger Muslims but Muhammad taught us to be tolerant against hate and not to retaliate. Plus it's just the drawing of a random arabic dude since Charlie Hebdo has no idea how Muhammad looked like. The intention was to mock so if you don't react, no one will care to do it again. I do understand why people would be angry though.

But I am angry against Macron because he is stoking flames and causing further hate to be directed towards muslims while he is also causing more Muslims to hate France and the west. He is an idiot.

Regarding multiple wives, there are rules to that and it's restricted to 4 for Muslims but only if you can treat them all fairly so the default is still 1 marriage and it's more or less encouraged. Regarding the age of one of his wives, people of that region at that time reached puberty early and were married off early. Age difference wasn't emphasized as much in the Arab society. His first wife was like 15 years older than him.  This is why the critique of the age of the wives is a modern thing and you can't find such critique from Islam sceptics even a few centuries back. People of the past had no concept of teenage years. It was just kid to adult and children as young as 12 went to war and some even ruled empires. 



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

dark_gh0st_b0y said:
Macron is the world's most sensible leader at the moment

care how you use the word 'religion', you can't put all faiths in a bucket just because you are atheist, it is not religious extremism, it is Islamic extremism

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48146305

https://providencemag.com/2020/04/world-ignoring-christian-genocide-nigeria/

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/new-calls-for-us-sanctions-on-turkey-for-christian-persecution-31519

we have freedom of speech and beliefs in Europe, but I'm sure many Christians are now scared to go to church, I am scared to go to church, and this is not something that is supposed to happen in today's 'forward moving' Europe

Macron is a big idiot who would be the most stupid leader if it wasn't for Modhi, Imran Khan, Netenyahu, Bolsanaro, Bolsanaro and Trump. Trudeau is smarter than Macron, Merkel is smarter than Macron and the new Zealand PM is most certainly smarter and up there as the most sensible one. Macron is a Jackass



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also