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Forums - Politics Discussion - A French teacher beheaded, chaos ensues, EU warns Turkey of sanctions

JWeinCom said:
Eagle367 said:

Islam doesn't have a central organized thing like the papacy. It's very decentralized so there are more so local leaders than global leaders of the entire Muslim community ( not islamic community). But a lot of scholars have condemned these sorts of acts hundreds upon thousands of times. Any legitimate scholar of Islam condemns these acts.

That's a no true Scotsman fallacy. You can't just discount anyone who doesn't condemn it as not representative of Islam.

I don't know if I buy that these people are merely a fringe group. There are currently 16 Islamic countries where blasphemy can be punished by imprisonment or death. I'm not saying all of them would necessarily endorse beheading for drawing Muhammed, but that's a big chunk of the Muslim world where it would be illegal, and it's not surprising that kind of backdrop can foster extremism.

Islam is based on the Abrahamic faith.. More specifically the same religious context as the Bibles old testament and the Jewish Torah (Which was the first of the 3 religions.)

Where the Bible differs is with the New Testament.

The religion isn't the problem... It's the fact most Islamic nations are developing nations... And developing nations tend to have poorer human-rights standards... I mean you have a plethora of African nations which are primarily Christian and they use that religion to recruit child soldiers, behead people and more.

The religion isn't the problem. Religious extremism is the problem, ironically it's a right-wing religious problem. - Terrorists tend to be right-wing religious extremists... And that should be shut down.

TheBraveGallade said:
people are talking like cristianity wasn't this bad three centuries ago...
islam needs to be reformed, just as christianity has.

Not all Christian denominations have reformed though, you do have denominations which interpret the Bible or more specifically the Old Testament in it's literal form. Like the 7th day Adventists.

sales2099 said:

The religion needs reforming in the west at the very least. Sharia Law is not compatible with modern western civilization. Don’t get me started on women’s rights within it. People make fun of Jesus all the time but make fun of Islam and you risk getting your head chopped off. Radical minority or not this is the modern era not the dark ages. You don’t decapitate people in a modern society because someone made fun of your prophet. 

The French PM was right to condemn the attack for what it was. The crime was done with religious motivations plain and simple, being a radical minority aside.  

The Quran is based on the Bibles Old Testament... Ergo Sharia Law is based on the laws found in the Bibles Old Testament... Or more specifically has allot of commonality with the Law of Moses.
And the Bibles laws also have some harsh penalties like stoning for adultery in those laws.

I would argue religion in general is simply not compatible with modern western civilization, it holds progress back for something that has no evidence to substantiate any of it's claims anyway. (I.E. Equality for example.)



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Pemalite said:
JWeinCom said:

That's a no true Scotsman fallacy. You can't just discount anyone who doesn't condemn it as not representative of Islam.

I don't know if I buy that these people are merely a fringe group. There are currently 16 Islamic countries where blasphemy can be punished by imprisonment or death. I'm not saying all of them would necessarily endorse beheading for drawing Muhammed, but that's a big chunk of the Muslim world where it would be illegal, and it's not surprising that kind of backdrop can foster extremism.

Islam is based on the Abrahamic faith.. More specifically the same religious context as the Bibles old testament and the Jewish Torah (Which was the first of the 3 religions.)

Where the Bible differs is with the New Testament.

The religion isn't the problem... It's the fact most Islamic nations are developing nations... And developing nations tend to have poorer human-rights standards... I mean you have a plethora of African nations which are primarily Christian and they use that religion to recruit child soldiers, behead people and more.

The religion isn't the problem. Religious extremism is the problem, ironically it's a right-wing religious problem. - Terrorists tend to be right-wing religious extremists... And that should be shut down.

TheBraveGallade said:
people are talking like cristianity wasn't this bad three centuries ago...
islam needs to be reformed, just as christianity has.

Not all Christian denominations have reformed though, you do have denominations which interpret the Bible or more specifically the Old Testament in it's literal form. Like the 7th day Adventists.

sales2099 said:

The religion needs reforming in the west at the very least. Sharia Law is not compatible with modern western civilization. Don’t get me started on women’s rights within it. People make fun of Jesus all the time but make fun of Islam and you risk getting your head chopped off. Radical minority or not this is the modern era not the dark ages. You don’t decapitate people in a modern society because someone made fun of your prophet. 

The French PM was right to condemn the attack for what it was. The crime was done with religious motivations plain and simple, being a radical minority aside.  

The Quran is based on the Bibles Old Testament... Ergo Sharia Law is based on the laws found in the Bibles Old Testament... Or more specifically has allot of commonality with the Law of Moses.
And the Bibles laws also have some harsh penalties like stoning for adultery in those laws.

I would argue religion in general is simply not compatible with modern western civilization, it holds progress back for something that has no evidence to substantiate any of it's claims anyway. (I.E. Equality for example.)

Religion itself is not the issue, it's the people who want to interpret something and use it /manipulate as an excuse for some other gain. Could be low iq, bad socio economic circumstances who are easily manipulated.  Before religion, wars, barbaric actions and conquering of lands and people happened, it's evolution and nothing would have changed it.  We don't know how society would be today without the old Testament, new, and so on. Would earth be a better place or even worse offn with other factions or groups of people with extremism. So we can't blame religion, if humans can't getit right collectively, some day, then we have failed.



KratosLives said:

Religion itself is not the issue, it's the people who want to interpret something and use it /manipulate as an excuse for some other gain. Could be low iq, bad socio economic circumstances who are easily manipulated.  Before religion, wars, barbaric actions and conquering of lands and people happened, it's evolution and nothing would have changed it.  We don't know how society would be today without the old Testament, new, and so on. Would earth be a better place or even worse offn with other factions or groups of people with extremism. So we can't blame religion, if humans can't getit right collectively, some day, then we have failed.

Did it? Religion is pretty damn old, there wasn't much "before religion".

And yes, bad things would still happen regardless, but religion definitely makes it easier for those things to happen. It's like saying "Guns don't kill people, people do" where religion is the gun. It's correct in a way, some killing still happens regardless, but the gun (religion) is definitely a contributing factor. And societies with less guns are almost always safer, just like societies with less religion are usually safer too.



Eagle367 said:
The actual problem is that Macron called Islam "a religion in crisis" and he wanted to "reform" Islam. Who is he to tell all the Muslims what their religion is and that he is capable enough to "reform" out religion. He is an idiot. All Muslims would have backed him if he just talked against the terrorists but no, he chose to attack the religion and blame it, not the terrorists. The only Muslims he made happy are the terrorists who can use his statements for their brainwashing and propaganda. Also the attack in Nice has been confirmed to be done by far right extremists, not Muslim extremists so make a correction to the thread mate.

Freedom of speach should be a basic human right.

If muslims cannot except that your allowed to make fun of, or critize, anyone (even muhammed) they can use words, or argue about it.
You are not allowed to go around and behead people (because you dont like things they have said).

Islam needs a reform.
its liveing in a the past (like the world was still back in the 1400 centuray).

Condeming terrorist doesnt do anything.
Radiacal Muslims still keep doing terror attacks (and have been for like 100 of years).

If muslims cannot live in a free society, one with freedom of speach they are free to leave it tbh.
All these extreme muslims can just move right out of france of where ever, and go back to a society that suits them more.
Do they want to live under a preist ruled dictatorship? with Sharia laws? cool just move out of the EU.

Its tireing that theres attacks by muslims so often.
Bending over backways to suit them, when they moved to other countried and are trying to change the country they moved in..... isnt how things should be. A minority shouldnt be able to bully their way to change, by use of force/fear.



TheBraveGallade said:
people are talking like cristianity wasn't this bad three centuries ago...
islam needs to be reformed, just as christianity has.

this, cristianity was out of controll 300-400 years ago.
That was along time ago though. We changed.

Islam is liveing in the past, it needs a reform now.
We in the modern times, cannot accept a world with shaira laws, honor killings, denial of free speach, and people that go around killing for seemingly no reason (apart from hate, due to teachings of their religion).

Muslims need to own up to it.



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Macron is the world's most sensible leader at the moment

care how you use the word 'religion', you can't put all faiths in a bucket just because you are atheist, it is not religious extremism, it is Islamic extremism

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48146305

https://providencemag.com/2020/04/world-ignoring-christian-genocide-nigeria/

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/new-calls-for-us-sanctions-on-turkey-for-christian-persecution-31519

we have freedom of speech and beliefs in Europe, but I'm sure many Christians are now scared to go to church, I am scared to go to church, and this is not something that is supposed to happen in today's 'forward moving' Europe



don't mind my username, that was more than 10 years ago, I'm a different person now, amazing how people change ^_^

JRPGfan said:
TheBraveGallade said:
people are talking like cristianity wasn't this bad three centuries ago...
islam needs to be reformed, just as christianity has.

this, cristianity was out of controll 300-400 years ago.
That was along time ago though. We changed.

Islam is liveing in the past, it needs a reform now.
We in the modern times, cannot accept a world with shaira laws, honor killings, denial of free speach, and people that go around killing for seemingly no reason (apart from hate, due to teachings of their religion).

Muslims need to own up to it.

the most basic in Christianity is living like Jesus Christ lived, as close as you can at least since none of us will ever be perfect

so it wasn't Christianity really, but some evil men that took advantage of the church's influence to ensure they remain in control of everything by force

with Islam it's a very different story, Mohammed being the highest human in the faith was a warlord

"Muhammad attacked other groups as well. In 629, Muslims attacked a Jewish settlement in the oasis of Khaybar in Northwestern Arabia. Shortly after the conquest of Mecca, Muhammad received Surah 9:29, which ordered Muslims to fight non-Muslims (including Christians and Jews) until they submit to Islam"
https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/historical-muhammad-the-good-bad-downright-ugly/

check the faith map in Africa and the Middle East, where Islam rules no other faith survives, but southern Africa for example is Christian mainly with many other smaller faiths



don't mind my username, that was more than 10 years ago, I'm a different person now, amazing how people change ^_^

dark_gh0st_b0y said:
Macron is the world's most sensible leader at the moment

care how you use the word 'religion', you can't put all faiths in a bucket just because you are atheist, it is not religious extremism, it is Islamic extremism

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48146305

https://providencemag.com/2020/04/world-ignoring-christian-genocide-nigeria/

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/new-calls-for-us-sanctions-on-turkey-for-christian-persecution-31519

we have freedom of speech and beliefs in Europe, but I'm sure many Christians are now scared to go to church, I am scared to go to church, and this is not something that is supposed to happen in today's 'forward moving' Europe

I would argue Jacinda Ardern is probably the most sensible...



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

dark_gh0st_b0y said:
JRPGfan said:

this, cristianity was out of controll 300-400 years ago.
That was along time ago though. We changed.

Islam is liveing in the past, it needs a reform now.
We in the modern times, cannot accept a world with shaira laws, honor killings, denial of free speach, and people that go around killing for seemingly no reason (apart from hate, due to teachings of their religion).

Muslims need to own up to it.

the most basic in Christianity is living like Jesus Christ lived, as close as you can at least since none of us will ever be perfect

so it wasn't Christianity really, but some evil men that took advantage of the church's influence to ensure they remain in control of everything by force

with Islam it's a very different story, Mohammed being the highest human in the faith was a warlord

"Muhammad attacked other groups as well. In 629, Muslims attacked a Jewish settlement in the oasis of Khaybar in Northwestern Arabia. Shortly after the conquest of Mecca, Muhammad received Surah 9:29, which ordered Muslims to fight non-Muslims (including Christians and Jews) until they submit to Islam"
https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/historical-muhammad-the-good-bad-downright-ugly/

check the faith map in Africa and the Middle East, where Islam rules no other faith survives, but southern Africa for example is Christian mainly with many other smaller faiths

He also had multiple wives, and married a 12yo.
But apparently hes a holy man, who if you make a depiction of him (a drawing) other muslims will hunt you down and kill you for it.



Someone should declare himself the last prophet and remove violent or intolerant verses from Quran explaining they were evilly and deceptively suggested to Muhammad by Satan after Khadijah died and could not defend and help him anymore.



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