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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Microsoft: Xbox Series S and X only next-gen consoles with full RDNA 2 feature set

Goatseye said:
Shinobi-san said:

haha i guess so.

But that doesn't mean Sony has the full feature set of RDNA 2, but I would imagine that Sony would have had the choice to include or exclude as they see fit. We do know for sure though that Cerny directly made reference to Mesh Shaders and a variant of Sampler Feedback. He however, made no reference to Variable Rate Shading or anything similar as far as I know.

I’m pretty sure Cerny mentioned Primitive Shader and not Mesh.

Same thing :)



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KratosLives said:
Shinobi-san said:

haha i guess so.

But that doesn't mean Sony has the full feature set of RDNA 2, but I would imagine that Sony would have had the choice to include or exclude as they see fit. We do know for sure though that Cerny directly made reference to Mesh Shaders and a variant of Sampler Feedback. He however, made no reference to Variable Rate Shading or anything similar as far as I know.

Well ofcourse, they don't directx12, they have their own api, they have their own mesh shading tech and so on. I remember hearing mark cerny talking about something similar to VrS. But it's funny how in AMD's presentation they spoke about the features that will be in xbox consoles, and then showcased a ps5 exclusive Godfall. 

Godfall is on PC as well.



Goatseye said:
KratosLives said:

Well ofcourse, they don't directx12, they have their own api, they have their own mesh shading tech and so on. I remember hearing mark cerny talking about something similar to VrS. But it's funny how in AMD's presentation they spoke about the features that will be in xbox consoles, and then showcased a ps5 exclusive Godfall. 

Godfall is on PC as well.

Will be interesting to see how Godfall on ps5 compares to Pc and whether difference in tech the AMd/microsoft colloborated with will result in advantages to the pc version, or if it's too early to see games to take on the full set of advantages. 



It would only matter if PS5 had all the RDNA 2 features and Xbox Series X was missing features.



Hiku said:
chakkra said:

I think it means that there are some RDNA2 features that the other next-gen consoles don't have.

Might not have understood my question, since you just repeated the statement. =p

Xbox Series X, PS5 and AMD's GPUs all have different RDNA2 solutions that have unique features that the others don't have.
And both Sony and MS developed RDNA2 together with AMD. So who gets to decide what a list of 'full features' means?

I guess it's just based on what AMD are using, because they're the only ones that call it RDNA2. PS5 and XSX call theirs RDNA2 based, because they're custom.

But the thing is, AMD's version is missing several features that PS5 has.
A PS5 engineer described it like this:

"More features, and one less."
I take it that means there's one feature that AMD are using in their GPUs now that PS5 is not. But PS5 has several more features that AMD doesn't.

MS may just be referring to DirectX Raytracing here, because DirectX is MS technology, so Sony use a different type of Raytracing.

chakkra said:
We don't really know, but one thing is certain; MS is not legally allowed to make such a statement if it wasn't true, and I'm 100% sure that the other console manufacturers would not just stay quiet if what was said wasn't true, even if it is just a technicality.

Probably. (Although they still advertised Destiny when they weren't legally allowed to.) Just trying to figure out what it means.
But I'm guessing it's just based on what AMD use, because people will read it and think RDNA2 is a standard, rather than one of three different approaches that were co-developed alongside each other, for different systems.

You might be correct in saying that the PS5 might have features of their own not included in RDNA2, but it is not Microsoft's job (nor interest) to talk about that. They are only interested in letting people know that their console has the full RDNA2 set of features.

As to which are the features pertaining to X series? This Anandtech article about RDNA2 might give us some clues:

"AMD has previously disclosed that RDNA2 would be a DX12 Ultimate-level architecture..
Overall, DirectX 12 Ultimate focuses on 4 major features (and some minor spec changes): Ray tracing, tier 2 variable-rate shading, mesh shaders, and sampler feedback."

"Finally, AMD today is also confirming that they will offer support for Microsoft's DirecStorage API. Derived from tech going into the next-gen consoles, DirectStorage will allow game assets to be streamed directly from storage to GPUs, with the GPUs decompressing assets on their own. This bypasses the CPU, which under the current paradigm has to do the decompression and then send those decompressed assets to the GPU."

https://www.anandtech.com/show/16202/amd-reveals-the-radeon-rx-6000-series-rdna2-starts-at-the-highend-coming-november-18th/2



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LudicrousSpeed said:
No doubt Sony has custom alternatives to RDNA2 features but they won’t be as good.

They both have 'custom alternatives' to RDNA2 features. Because they're both custom chips designed for consoles.
And AMD have their own solution for PC.

Microsoft, Sony and AMD developed this technology together, and chose whatever they thought was best suited for their solution.
So there's no reason why Sony's features 'wouldn't be as good', or vice versa.

With perhaps the exception of DirectX. That's Microsoft's technology and Sony may not have been allowed to use it even if they wanted to. So what this article highlights is that AMD and MS's decisions aligned more closely than Sony and AMD. But that could just mean the DirectX part for all we know.
And I guess that makes sense because Microsoft probably wouldn't know exactly what was in the PS5 chip. (Or at least they wouldn't be allowed to confirm anything that hasn't been made public yet.)
But they can of course know if Sony isn't using their DirectX technology.

XSX and PS5 have features that AMD's RDNA2 doesn't have though. Not necessarily better or worse, but they're custom chips for a different system.

Last edited by Hiku - on 28 October 2020

chakkra said:

You might be correct in saying that the PS5 might have features of their own not included in RDNA2, but it is not Microsoft's job (nor interest) to talk about that. They are only interested in letting people know that their console has the full RDNA2 set of features.

As to which are the features pertaining to X series? This Anandtech article about RDNA2 might give us some clues:

"AMD has previously disclosed that RDNA2 would be a DX12 Ultimate-level architecture..
Overall, DirectX 12 Ultimate focuses on 4 major features (and some minor spec changes): Ray tracing, tier 2 variable-rate shading, mesh shaders, and sampler feedback."

"Finally, AMD today is also confirming that they will offer support for Microsoft's DirecStorage API. Derived from tech going into the next-gen consoles, DirectStorage will allow game assets to be streamed directly from storage to GPUs, with the GPUs decompressing assets on their own. This bypasses the CPU, which under the current paradigm has to do the decompression and then send those decompressed assets to the GPU."

https://www.anandtech.com/show/16202/amd-reveals-the-radeon-rx-6000-series-rdna2-starts-at-the-highend-coming-november-18th/2

Of course.

And I think DirectX is a safe bet. Was curious if there was anything else of the 4 bullet points mentioned.

Come to think of it, MS probably wouldn't know, or wouldn't be allowed to confirm anything that is in the PS5 chip that they haven't made public.
But MS would know if Sony isn't using their (DirectX) technology.

So I'm guessing that's what MS are referring to here.

Last edited by Hiku - on 28 October 2020

yvanjean said:
It would only matter if PS5 had all the RDNA 2 features and Xbox Series X was missing features.

I think it would have been a major talking point, had Cerny not spent the majority of his presentation talking about these exact features.

Seems like a bit of a misleading info that only serves a purpose for teh console warz.



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I'm more curious if the DirectML upscaling could actually render games running on the Series S to 4K resolutions without looking choppy. If it can, then it might make the console a much more popular thing, even if some games skip on some features (I'm looking at you Vergil!)



An info-graph to help people visualize.
The chips were developed at the same time.