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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Microsoft: Xbox Series S and X only next-gen consoles with full RDNA 2 feature set

shikamaru317 said:
This matches with the rumors that PS5 was originally designed as a 2019 console, but had to be delayed into 2020, full RDNA 2 wouldn't have been ready if PS5 was designed as a 2019 console originally. Also explains why PS5 has a 350 watt power supply compared to 320 watt for Xbox Series X, even though Xbox Series X is more powerful and has locked clocks compared to variable clocks on PS5; if PS5 is only RDNA 1.5 (RDNA 1 with some RDNA 2 features), we know that RDNA 2 is more power efficient, which would explain why Xbox Series can get away with a smaller power supply in spite of the console being more powerful.

Its more like custom RDNA 2 versus full RDNA 2 for the Series X. The PS5 is stated to be RDNA 2 in the teardown video. 



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I've been seeing this rumor running around online for a while now, but these are the things that you cannot mention in here bcuz it is considered "console war,"
But anyway, my suspicions that the rumor might've been true started when MS kept mentioning DirectML while Sony did not. I'm really intrigued to see how this feature will be utilized in the future. The most logical thing would be to use it to implement its own version of DLSS.



Interesting. It would explain why Sony hasn't revealed much about their SoC compared to MS. Can't wait for technical analysis of these consoles.



             

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Thread was locked in Gaf as RDNA2 has DX12 support and that's why XBOX is the only one which can support all the features of RDNA2.



jardesonbarbosa said:
I have no idea what that means, but if it means better looking games, I'm all in.

It means they don't have any games to show so they talk up tech stuff ;)

Compare the games, not the tech babble. Not that Sony has much to show. I might just hold off on these next-gen consoles for a while, not all that excited about anything coming out. Weakest Q4 for me in forever, maybe I finally got old.



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Bandorr said:
Machiavellian said:

It should be interesting to see how each system uses ray tracing and the results in quality and performance.  If Sony implementation is custom, how much custom is it and at what level of quality and performance are we going to see compared to AMD RDNA2 feature set.  If we go by Spiderman for the PS5, the quality of the RT reflections were pretty low.  Hopefully we have an example between both systems to get a good understanding the differences between implementations.

Wonder which version I saw on the DMC website.  It isn't coming to PC so probably not that one.

It isn't on S and has to be patched on X later. So I'm guessing the PS5 version then?

I found that pretty impressive.

Then again my only real first-hand impression of ray-tracing is Control on PC. That was amazing but very taxing.

I love a good comparison though. We could see Control vs Control. Or DMC vs DMC (post patch).  I think Watch dogs has it also?

I'll have to go back and watch the spider-man one. I thought the reflections looked good but maybe I have forgotten.  What is a good example of "good" RT reflections that I can watch?

Not sure, I just saw the DF article talk about the reflection and the cost of getting it done depending on budget.  Not sure if the hardware in the PS5 is Sony own custom piece or AMD custom piece that was a stop gate for RT.  Should be interesting to see down the line.  At the end of the day, I highly doubt it will mean very much.



This could explain the reports of delayed Xbox dev kits, they were waiting on AMD. Wonder what impact this could have had on launch window X|S titles.



In the end, this isn't going to matter. MS is basically just taking what AMD is handing out as the RDNA 2 standard, while Sony took the RDNA 2 base (yes, it's still RDNA 2, diehards) and used their own custom versions of certain tech. We'll have to wait and see which is better, but more than likely, they will have near identical results.



shikamaru317 said:

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/10/28/a-closer-look-at-how-xbox-series-xs-integrates-full-amd-rdna-2-architecture/

"The long-term strategic relationship between Xbox and AMD over the past 15 years, beginning with the Xbox 360, is at the heart of the Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S. With the upcoming launch of the Xbox Series X|S on November 10, together we are ushering in the next generation of gaming delivering a level of power, performance and compatibility never before seen in console gaming, powered by AMD’s latest “Zen 2” and RDNA 2 architectures. Xbox Series X|S are the only next-generation consoles with full hardware support for all the RDNA 2 capabilities AMD showcased today."

The full list of RDNA 2 features on Xbox Series S and X:

  • Hardware accelerated DirectX raytracing (showcased in Watch Dogs Legions), which allows improved lighting, reflections, and acoustics.
  • Mesh shaders, which allow developers to manipulate game geometry in real-time, providing a higher level of fidelity and immersion than was previously possible.
  • Sampler Feedback, which only loads the portions of textures that are visible to the player into the RAM, offering 2.5x greater RAM efficiency (effectively a 2.5x increase to the amount of RAM available to developers)
  • Variable Rate Shading, which allows developers to focus GPU resources on the portions of any given frame that most need those resources

MS also talks about their partnership with AMD to work on DirectML, which is a set of hardware accelerated machine learning features that can be used to improve NPC AI, make more lifelike animations, and enhance resolution with ML powered Super Resolution (Microsoft's counter to Nvidia's DLSS).

What does "full RDNA 2 feature set" mean?
Which one of the listed RDNA 2 features does PS5 not have? And who decides what full means between custom chips that have unique properties that the other doesn't have?

Seems like standard PR here, where MS are playing off the fact that only AMD call theirs straight up RDNA2, while Sony and MS call theirs RDNA2-based.
And in this case they may just be referring to the DirectX part, since that's Microsoft's technology. Because we know PS5 has hardware accelerated raytracing.

shikamaru317 said:


This matches with the rumors that PS5 was originally designed as a 2019 console, but had to be delayed into 2020, full RDNA 2 wouldn't have been ready if PS5 was designed as a 2019 console originally. Also explains why PS5 has a 350 watt power supply compared to 320 watt for Xbox Series X, even though Xbox Series X is more powerful and has locked clocks compared to variable clocks on PS5; if PS5 is only RDNA 1.5 (RDNA 1 with some RDNA 2 features), we know that RDNA 2 is more power efficient, which would explain why Xbox Series can get away with a smaller power supply in spite of the console being more powerful.


The teardown and deep dive video's both says that PS5 is RDNA2 based.

There are a too many differences between PS5 and XSX that can lead to different power consumption to jump to conclusions about a baseless rumor. Sony would be the last to want to cut the generation short, with the amount of software they're selling.

Sony also helped AMD to develop RDNA 2.

So the idea that they'd somehow miss out on something they developed together sounds extremely unlikely.

I think the reason people got confused is because these chips were designed while AMD were still working on their PC mass market RDNA2. So in that sense both Microsoft's and Sony's solutions could be called RDNA 1.5. Not because they are inferior to RDNA 2, but because they are custom, different, and finalized around the same time as AMD's PC version. (Al three launch in the same week of November.)

But because 99.99% of people will look at 1.5 and think it means something negative, Sony and MS would want to call them RDNA2 based.

Last edited by Hiku - on 29 October 2020

Pretty sure this is mostly down to DirectX support.

Sony has confirmed RDNA2 (both in the teardown and by Cerny) which doesn't only mean a feature set but also architectural changes etc.

Majority of the gain will be down to architectural changes as described by AMD today. Well at least this is my understanding.

I don't see how you get a 50-60% performance improvement simply because of the listed features.



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