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Forums - Microsoft - Microsoft Has Put Themselves Back In The Game!

Cerebralbore101 on 01 October 2020
smroadkill15 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Talking about raising brand awareness, and raising the userbase beyond just Xbox customers is just vague business-speak. It's as convincing as Enron's Mark to Market accounting was.

You're not sitting down and doing an objective look at the math. Show me a mathematical formula that proves that the revenue from Gamepass + PC Sales + Xbox Sales > PC Sales + PS4 Sales + Switch Sales + Xbox sales.


I have never stated Bethesda games would sell better being only on the Xbox ecosystem. I never have made this claim, and I won't make this claim. But the point of MS buying Bethesda isn't to sell as many copies as possibly, it's to make the ecosystem more attractive for gamers. 

Sony could release Spider-man and God of War on PC, Xbox, etc and it would sell way more than making it only ps4, but that's not why they do it. Sony want to make Playstation the best place to play, just like MS want's Xbox to be to best place to play.

50 million Gamepass subs would bring in roughly 6 billion in revenue annual, and that's not accounting Ultimate subs. Then include in revenue from game sales, 30% cut on 3rd party games, Xbox live gold, steam sales, etc. The 50 million subs is a continues amount of revenue. I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion game sales would bring in more revenue. Even Sony's best selling year of ps4 exclusives total doesn't come close to this. 

I didn't mean to imply that you were making that claim.

@bolded That wouldn't make their ecosystem more attractive to gamers. It would just make Sony's ecosystem less attractive to gamers. Xbox doesn't become a more enticing brand by going from having Bethesda games to having Bethesda games.

The real question here is how much does MS have to pay each game individually to get it into gamepass? If that $10 monthly Gamepass sub is split between a lot of different developers and games, then is that really profitable?

I think you're forgetting that PS4 makes its money on more than just exclusives. 3rd Party royalty fees are the bread and butter of a console business.



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smroadkill15 on 01 October 2020
Cerebralbore101 said:
smroadkill15 said:

I have never stated Bethesda games would sell better being only on the Xbox ecosystem. I never have made this claim, and I won't make this claim. But the point of MS buying Bethesda isn't to sell as many copies as possibly, it's to make the ecosystem more attractive for gamers. 

Sony could release Spider-man and God of War on PC, Xbox, etc and it would sell way more than making it only ps4, but that's not why they do it. Sony want to make Playstation the best place to play, just like MS want's Xbox to be to best place to play.

50 million Gamepass subs would bring in roughly 6 billion in revenue annual, and that's not accounting Ultimate subs. Then include in revenue from game sales, 30% cut on 3rd party games, Xbox live gold, steam sales, etc. The 50 million subs is a continues amount of revenue. I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion game sales would bring in more revenue. Even Sony's best selling year of ps4 exclusives total doesn't come close to this. 

I didn't mean to imply that you were making that claim.

@bolded That wouldn't make their ecosystem more attractive to gamers. It would just make Sony's ecosystem less attractive to gamers. Xbox doesn't become a more enticing brand by going from having Bethesda games to having Bethesda games.

The real question here is how much does MS have to pay each game individually to get it into gamepass? If that $10 monthly Gamepass sub is split between a lot of different developers and games, then is that really profitable?

I think you're forgetting that PS4 makes its money on more than just exclusives. 3rd Party royalty fees are the bread and butter of a console business.

I don't agree with that. Anything that's on Xbox and not on Playstation would definitely make it a more enticing brand. If someone loves Fallout and Elder Scrolls, and they knew it could only be played on Xbox, I'm confident it they would at least consider buying an Xbox/gamepass. I've already seen enough comments on Youtube, and other sites from gamers feeling this way. 

Right now, Xbox is getting roughly 1.8 billion in revenue from gamepass subs. Of course some of this goes to 3rd party fees and I have no idea what it could be because it varies. It could be anywhere from 200 million to 400 million, I really can't say. This still leaves them with a substantial amount of revenue, and this will only continue to grow going into next gen. 

I know yeah, Ps4 gets sales from 3rd party royalties, but so does Xbox along with Gamepass subs. 



Dgc1808 on 02 October 2020

I take it you're not into pc gaming?

Also, I to hope they gave sony some serious competition. Make em' sweat, MS!



4 ≈ One

Cerebralbore101 on 02 October 2020
smroadkill15 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

I didn't mean to imply that you were making that claim.

@bolded That wouldn't make their ecosystem more attractive to gamers. It would just make Sony's ecosystem less attractive to gamers. Xbox doesn't become a more enticing brand by going from having Bethesda games to having Bethesda games.

The real question here is how much does MS have to pay each game individually to get it into gamepass? If that $10 monthly Gamepass sub is split between a lot of different developers and games, then is that really profitable?

I think you're forgetting that PS4 makes its money on more than just exclusives. 3rd Party royalty fees are the bread and butter of a console business.

I don't agree with that. Anything that's on Xbox and not on Playstation would definitely make it a more enticing brand. If someone loves Fallout and Elder Scrolls, and they knew it could only be played on Xbox, I'm confident it they would at least consider buying an Xbox/gamepass. I've already seen enough comments on Youtube, and other sites from gamers feeling this way. 

Right now, Xbox is getting roughly 1.8 billion in revenue from gamepass subs. Of course some of this goes to 3rd party fees and I have no idea what it could be because it varies. It could be anywhere from 200 million to 400 million, I really can't say. This still leaves them with a substantial amount of revenue, and this will only continue to grow going into next gen. 

I know yeah, Ps4 gets sales from 3rd party royalties, but so does Xbox along with Gamepass subs. 

@bolded. That's the thing though. Nobody knows how much it is costing them. Nobody knows whether they are paying a percentage of revenue, a one time flat fee, or a recurring flat fee. Nobody on these forums can prove that Gamepass actually turns a profit. MS refuses to divulge that information. They've also refused to divulge Total XBL Gold users,  Lifetime Total Sales of Certain Games, and Lifetime Total Sales of Xbox 1. What do those three pieces of information have in common? They are embarrassing to MS. If Gamepass was actually turning a profit MS would shout it from the rooftops. Their silence is damning evidence that it's a moneypit.



smroadkill15 on 02 October 2020
Cerebralbore101 said:

@bolded. That's the thing though. Nobody knows how much it is costing them. Nobody knows whether they are paying a percentage of revenue, a one time flat fee, or a recurring flat fee. Nobody on these forums can prove that Gamepass actually turns a profit. MS refuses to divulge that information. They've also refused to divulge Total XBL Gold users,  Lifetime Total Sales of Certain Games, and Lifetime Total Sales of Xbox 1. What do those three pieces of information have in common? They are embarrassing to MS. If Gamepass was actually turning a profit MS would shout it from the rooftops. Their silence is damning evidence that it's a moneypit.

I mean, does it really matter how much MS pays each developer? We've already found out MS pays developers a one time fee for each game, and that amount varies on the game. 

This is a lot of information that really shouldn't even be our concern. This is MS after all, the trillion dollar company. If Gamepass, Xbox, and those other numbers were so terrible, Satya Nadella wouldn't be so support of Xbox considering now gaming is one of the main Pillars of MS, and how much they have been investing.

Btw, Xbox was profitable this gen so it couldn't have been that embarrassing. 



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Cerebralbore101 on 04 October 2020
smroadkill15 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

@bolded. That's the thing though. Nobody knows how much it is costing them. Nobody knows whether they are paying a percentage of revenue, a one time flat fee, or a recurring flat fee. Nobody on these forums can prove that Gamepass actually turns a profit. MS refuses to divulge that information. They've also refused to divulge Total XBL Gold users,  Lifetime Total Sales of Certain Games, and Lifetime Total Sales of Xbox 1. What do those three pieces of information have in common? They are embarrassing to MS. If Gamepass was actually turning a profit MS would shout it from the rooftops. Their silence is damning evidence that it's a moneypit.

I mean, does it really matter how much MS pays each developer? We've already found out MS pays developers a one time fee for each game, and that amount varies on the game. 

This is a lot of information that really shouldn't even be our concern. This is MS after all, the trillion dollar company. If Gamepass, Xbox, and those other numbers were so terrible, Satya Nadella wouldn't be so support of Xbox considering now gaming is one of the main Pillars of MS, and how much they have been investing.

Btw, Xbox was profitable this gen so it couldn't have been that embarrassing. 

@Bolded Source? 



smroadkill15 on 04 October 2020
Cerebralbore101 said:
smroadkill15 said:

I mean, does it really matter how much MS pays each developer? We've already found out MS pays developers a one time fee for each game, and that amount varies on the game. 

This is a lot of information that really shouldn't even be our concern. This is MS after all, the trillion dollar company. If Gamepass, Xbox, and those other numbers were so terrible, Satya Nadella wouldn't be so support of Xbox considering now gaming is one of the main Pillars of MS, and how much they have been investing.

Btw, Xbox was profitable this gen so it couldn't have been that embarrassing. 

@Bolded Source? 

https://mspoweruser.com/microsoft-reports-higher-gaming-revenue-xbox-live-users-last-quarter/

https://www.geekwire.com/2018/microsofts-record-setting-10b-gaming-year-compares-rivals-sony-nintendo/

Right now Gamepass is profitable, even if it's not by much according to Greenberg in July when they announced Gamepass was at 10 million subs. Now it's at 15 million subs, and may even hit 20 million by the end of the year with the way it's growing. 



Soundwave on 04 October 2020

lulz at people thinking Bethesda IP will be on PS5. Maybe *years* later if ever. Minecraft and Cuphead are kids centric IP that MS wants to see kids merchandising on like Cuphead recently getting a fast food tie in.

When it comes to older centric IP like Halo and Forza, they have not shared any of those with even Nintendo and certainly not Sony.



sales2099 on 04 October 2020
smroadkill15 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

@Bolded Source? 

https://mspoweruser.com/microsoft-reports-higher-gaming-revenue-xbox-live-users-last-quarter/

https://www.geekwire.com/2018/microsofts-record-setting-10b-gaming-year-compares-rivals-sony-nintendo/

Right now Gamepass is profitable, even if it's not by much according to Greenberg in July when they announced Gamepass was at 10 million subs. Now it's at 15 million subs, and may even hit 20 million by the end of the year with the way it's growing. 

Very promising times ahead. This is with Xbox One pulling up the rear this gen. Launching on the right foot with GP users carrying over should yield much faster growth.  



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Cerebralbore101 on 04 October 2020
smroadkill15 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

@Bolded Source? 

https://mspoweruser.com/microsoft-reports-higher-gaming-revenue-xbox-live-users-last-quarter/

https://www.geekwire.com/2018/microsofts-record-setting-10b-gaming-year-compares-rivals-sony-nintendo/

Right now Gamepass is profitable, even if it's not by much according to Greenberg in July when they announced Gamepass was at 10 million subs. Now it's at 15 million subs, and may even hit 20 million by the end of the year with the way it's growing. 

The first article is from 2017. I'm sure they were somewhat profitable back then, since Gamepass wasn't full steam yet.

The second article doesn't list profits but rather revenue.

From Investopedia: Revenue is known as the top line because it appears first on a company's income statement. Net income, also known as the bottom line, is revenues minus expenses. There is a profit when revenues exceed expenses.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/revenue.asp

I'd just like proof that Gamepass turns a profit. That's all.