By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Microsoft Has Put Themselves Back In The Game!

Cerebralbore101 said:
chakkra said:

It is quite possible that Game Pass is not turning a profit yet; I don't think it is a secret for anybody that Subscription-based models don't tend to turn profits in the first few years of existence.

Now, since you seem to be so much interested in this topic, here is a short article that might help alleviate your concerns about Game Pass.

https://www.tweaktown.com/news/74188/game-pass-defines-entire-xbox-generation-drives-year-by-revenues/index.html

"Xbox Game Pass has consistently raised Microsoft's gaming revenues every year since launch, leading to new 2020 record highs."

Basically, MS's revenue went from $9.25b in 2014 to $11.57b in 2020. Now, I want you to think for a second how much less hardware (and software) Xbox sold in 2020 compared to 2014 and yet revenue still went up more than $2b in that timeframe.

And just to give you a little bit more perspective, Nintendo's revenue in 2020 was $12.1b. Let that sink in for a moment, Switch has outsold the Xbox about 7:1 in this past year, and had Animal Crossing and Pokemon in its roster, and yet Nintendo's revenue was just half a billion more than Microsoft's.

Revenue is not profit though.

I... did not say it was?

We already know that your concerns about Game Pass will not be alleviated, but let me throw you another line, just for fun:
“Digital content on console platforms, mobile content, and subscription spending were among the largest growth segments”

https://venturebeat.com/2020/09/14/august-2020-npd-madden-and-ufc-supercharge-u-s-game-sales/



Around the Network

@Cerebralbore I'm going to leave this quote from Phil Spencer for ya. I suggest taking his advice. 

"Gamers in general, there is sometimes a tendency that the more walls we put up around things, the more valuable it is. But if we're focused on growing the games industry, we should not be less accessible. We should be more accessible. We had this argument for years over cross-play. Should we allow people to play across different platforms? Or does that somehow diminish the value of an individual platform?

The thing at the highest level, which will probably get me in trouble, is as gamers you should focus on what you want, not focus on, like, my P&L [profit and loss statement], or the P&L of the console you chose to invest in. I see this dialogue about somebody worried that somehow Xbox is gonna make less money, or their console is gonna make less money if they tell me a game is going to be on a different platform before it actually comes out, or it's gonna be in a subscription, which is really what I want, but somehow that's gonna mean less money for them so I don't want them to do that because I'd rather pay more money so...

You should focus on you as a gamer and the things that matter to you. We as the people running the business - I am incented to run a good business inside of Microsoft and in the long term. I've been here for 31 years. I don't know that I'll make 31 more, but I'm not going anywhere tomorrow. We're building an Xbox business for the long run. I'll tell you, Game Pass today is a strong part of that, and it continues to get stronger, and it supports the building of great IP."

Here is one last article for you. I'm not going to discuss this more because I personally don't care and neither should you. 

https://stevivor.com/features/interviews/phil-spencer-xbox-game-pass/



I'm a PlayStation fan but this is a move you have to respect. Microsoft's console's problems started with the launch of Kinect. They lost sight of their identity. With this acquisition in addition to the previous ones, MS has a strong WRPG/Western gamer experience to fall back on. I always hated how they didn't get the chance to buy Bioware, but this more than makes up for it. Especially if they force Bethesda to change engines and focus on quality control.

Jesus they can drop New Vegas 2 whenever they want with the original talent. Microsoft can do to Star Wars what Sony did to Spider-Man. We might get a KOTOR 3.



Black Women Are The Most Beautiful Women On The Planet.

"In video game terms, RPGs are games that involve a form of separate battles taking place with a specialized battle system and the use of a system that increases your power through a form of points.

Sure, what you say is the definition, but the connotation of RPGs is what they are in video games." - dtewi

Cerebralbore101 said:
LudicrousSpeed said:
Why does it even matter if GamePass turns a profit for MS? It’s not the type of service you launch expecting quick profits. These services take time before you start to see a real return.

Well all I wanted was for people to admit MS is burning money now to hopefully make a ton of money in the future. See my post a few days ago, that pretty much agrees with what you just said. https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9224201

It just irks me that MS hides behind financial smoke and mirrors, for the purposes of marketing. Microsoft's marketing department is the epitome of this meme...

Edit: Just imagine if Nintendo was this loudmouthed, and arrogant during the Wii U era.

We all know they are burning money now as an investment for the future. Who has argued otherwise? I mean, they just announced a deal where they spent $7,500,000,000. 

Also, it irks you that their marketing does exactly what marketing is supposed to do? They’re going to twist everything to paint their business in the best light possible. That’s what PR is for. What exactly is “loud mouthed” or “arrogant” about it? 

Companies routinely do whatever legal maneuvering they can to hide losses in divisions or from products that they want to be murky on. It’s just how the world works. Sony is no stranger to that. As a gamer and a consumer of Xbox content, why should I care? They’re investing in their gaming division, it’s here to stay and will be very well supported, that’s all any of us should care about.



MS isn't being "loud mouthed" they're making big moves and have the money to do so. It's not their problem Sony is small potatoes by comparison.

Sony's success was always predicated on MS treating gaming like a hobby, if they ever decided to take it serious and use their cash backing, Sony was always going to be in trouble. Looks like Game Pass being the Netflix of gaming as potential finally sold MS' board of directors to go big.



Around the Network

You know what really proves that Microsoft is back in the game? This thread. When people argue page after page it shows you Microsoft is in a better position this gen than last gen. It's the same with Nintendo: Whenever Nintendo unveils a console with high sales potential people argue forever why that console will fail.

You can only passionately argue about Microsoft vs. Sony when both companies are competitive.



Cerebralbore101 said:

Well all I wanted was for people to admit MS is burning money now to hopefully make a ton of money in the future. See my post a few days ago, that pretty much agrees with what you just said. https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9224201

It just irks me that MS hides behind financial smoke and mirrors, for the purposes of marketing. Microsoft's marketing department is the epitome of this meme...


Edit: Just imagine if Nintendo was this loudmouthed, and arrogant during the Wii U era.

Welcome to how Nintendo fans felt between 1996 and 2004: It's absolutely normal for a bigger company to wield their resources and use them towards its success. Same thing happened between Sony and Nintendo in the 1990s. Nintendo had to totally re-align its business strategy with the DS (Blue Ocean Strategy) and Wii (Disruptive Innovation) because Sony would always crush them in direct competition when it came to money. I can't remember people complaining how unfair that is. But I can remember countless threads over literal decades on why Nintendo consoles are bad because they are less powerful or versatile than Sony's consoles. Hint: Sony had more money to pour into its consoles and could sell them at a loss.

Some (not all!) Sony fans have been going on about this since I joined this site in 2007. We had countless threads on why the Switch would fail and it ultimately all boiled down to Nintendo having less money than Sony: The Switch was too expensive, not powerful enough, Nintendo couldn't keep up with western AAA games apparently... all things that come down to Nintendo being a smaller company.

Welcome to the club. This time Sony is the small company.



Every negative narrative has been squashed.

Xbox One weaker: Series X stronger (and unlike Xbox X which came too late to make a difference, this is day 1).
Xbox more expensive: Series S $299 day 1. Almost impulse buy territory.
Non gaming direction: Kinect dropped, Phil Spencer adopting a “gamers first” approach
Value: Day One 1st party on Game Pass, plus the streaming and EA Play added for free. Cross gen free upgrades and save transfers
Backwards Compatibility: Goes back to OG Xbox. Series X optimizes old games resolution/FPS/load times without dev input.
1st Party: Went from 7 to 23 studios in 2 years. Crazy commitment to 1st party content with more studios to come.

The only negative narratives left that I can think of are that “the games aren’t out yet” and “Game Pass is not sustainable”. To me if these are the best people can think of then Xbox gonna go great next gen. Once things get going Xbox will have more exclusives per year then Sony, this is a mathematical certainty. Not like 2021 is lacking with heavy hitters like Halo Infinite and rumoured Starfield. As for Game Pass, people being “armchair economists” is just not a good argument. It’s false concern. If you can’t argue the value proposition, act like the business will go bankrupt any day now lol.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 said:
Every negative narrative has been squashed.

Xbox One weaker: Series X stronger (and unlike Xbox X which came too late to make a difference, this is day 1).
Xbox more expensive: Series S $299 day 1. Almost impulse buy territory.
Non gaming direction: Kinect dropped, Phil Spencer adopting a “gamers first” approach
Value: Day One 1st party on Game Pass, plus the streaming and EA Play added for free. Cross gen free upgrades and save transfers
Backwards Compatibility: Goes back to OG Xbox. Series X optimizes old games resolution/FPS/load times without dev input.
1st Party: Went from 7 to 23 studios in 2 years. Crazy commitment to 1st party content with more studios to come.

The only negative narratives left that I can think of are that “the games aren’t out yet” and “Game Pass is not sustainable”. To me if these are the best people can think of then Xbox gonna go great next gen. Once things get going Xbox will have more exclusives per year then Sony, this is a mathematical certainty. Not like 2021 is lacking with heavy hitters like Halo Infinite and rumoured Starfield. As for Game Pass, people being “armchair economists” is just not a good argument. It’s false concern. If you can’t argue the value proposition, act like the business will go bankrupt any day now lol.

No, they really haven't, because of the second bolded part. The games aren't out yet. Some people expected Crackdown to be great, some people expected Sea of thieves to be great, some people expected Days Gone to be great, some people expected No Man's Sky to be great. Until the games are out, all the promises in the world mean nothing at all. Until the games are actually out, it's all hear-say, hope, and goodwill. They have no goodwill from me because, as I've stated dozens of times in this thread and others, they have not done anything to impress me over the past 10 years or so. 

Them buying all these companies is great, sure. It sounds good on paper, but time and time again they prove they can't create or maintain things. Hell, Halo was made by Bungie and was in development before Microsoft bought them out, then as soon as Bungie was gone the quality dipped. Bungie makes great Halo games, not Microsoft. Gears was Epic Games, not a Microsoft studio. It was essentially third party, and parts 4 and 5 have not been all that well recieved compared to the first three. Rare is a company I don't have to repeat since they've only done one worthwhile game in the past 10 years and that game was trashed at launch and took years to not completely suck. Nothing tells me that ANY of these promises matter. 

You can't just say 'they're doing everything right' without any actual data and numbers to back it up. They've messed up thoroughly and consistently over the past 10 years, and until they prove me and many others wrong, all their promises are empty. Until they actually start releasing games, all they have is goodwill from folks like you. They're doing the opposite of crying wolf. They keep declaring all manner of success and intent and not delivering; eventually, people gotta see through the smokescreen to see there's just a block of dry ice and no substance. It's all smoke and mirrors, no substance. Until proven, it's all hot air.



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

all 4 games you mention turned out great what the fuck are you talking about



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.