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Forums - Politics Discussion - Ruth Bader Ginsburg dead

sc94597 said:

My guess is this is what will happen: 

1. Trump will nominate somebody before the election that gets conservatives and fascists excited to vote for him. 

2. McConnell will say the Senate will vote for the nominee after the election to protect swing-state senators. 

3a. If Biden wins and the swing-state senators lose reelection they'll vote for Trump's nominee. 

3b. If Biden loses, regardless of what the swing-state senators said before the election, they'll say "the majority decided" and vote for the nominee. 

3c. If Biden wins, but swing-state senators win reelection -- it'll be trickier for them, but Trump's nominee will squeak by with about half of the swing state Republicans + Joe Manchin + Pence, if necessary before January. 

Either way I don't expect Republicans to not vote for a conservative justice. They are well aware that their numbers are dwindling over time as Silents and Boomers die off, and their party alienates people who would otherwise be young conservatives with their far-right fascist sympathies. The rewards are too great for them not to sacrifice some of their people, and swing-state voters depend on GOP voters as much as they do "independents" and "moderates." 

4a/4c. Biden wins and doesn't do anything to change the courts. People are disenchanted with his presidency as it does nothing to address the current crises and the U.S continues the trends it has been going on. 

4b. Trump consolidates his control over government and empowers fascists. 

5a./5b./5c. Tom Cotton becomes president in 2024 as a counter to a threat of growing calls for localized socialist insurrections/syndicalism, and the incompetence of Biden/Trump to address the crises. He brings in coordinated fascism unlike Trump's incompetent, uncoordinated pseudo-fascism. The U.S starts the path toward balkanization as many regions are repulsed by Tom Cotton's more competent fascism. 

6a/6b./6c. By 2035 at the earliest thru 2050 at the latest the U.S has balkanized into different republics after a warm (neither cold nor hot) pseudo-civil war. Some states join Canada (whose population has ballooned with refugees), but most create/join their own federations. In the interim roughly 1% (~ 4 million) of the U.S population dies from the warm civil war and its effects. More people die from the camps at the border with Mexico, but the number remains unknown for decades. A third of the country by population are controlled by fascists. Meanwhile the world is in disarray due to the failing of American hegemony. China and Russia start spreading their influence in their regional spheres, but they can't replace the U.S as a hegemony. Europe also starts to fall apart if it can't reform. 

That is the future the political-bureaucratic class and capitalists have handed us. 

I went from wanting to argue with you (because BOTH parties are overly controlling like fascists on different issues, not just conservatives), to not wanting to comment because you started to go off the deep end, to wanting you to make this into a book that I would buy and read. I'd also take a movie, but I believe a book would be a better format for indulging your unlikely fantasy in more depth.



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RolStoppable said:
Dulfite said:

Thankfully this is a Republic and not a Democracy, then.

Indeed. The thought that the majority could decide over the fate of a country is terrifying.

It truly is, and should be to everyone. People are ignorant and believe what they are fed. The media could come out with some crazy thing tomorrow, and go on a campaign for it for a month, and you'd see the public opinion change in the polls over it because people are easily manipulated.

Our elected officials, for all their flaws, are considerably less manipulated than the average joe, and therefore are able to make better decisions than the average joe. Stories like "The Circle" like to romanticize the idea of direct democracy without realizing the MASSIVE issues it will have. What happens if 51% of the population wants one thing one day, and change their mind literally the next day? Do laws get changed everyday then, going back and forth depending on who is alive today and who watched the news and was fed lies today, or some some lying facebook ad today?

As a conservative, I would rather have President Bernie Sanders, with Speaker of the House AOC and a 6-3 liberal Supreme Court than I would mob rule with direct democracy. I hope the POPULAR vote count is abolished one day, and we only see the electoral results.



im actually a fan of hers (RIP Ruth) but geez does anyone else feel we need age limit on supreme justices, i dont like the idea of such elderly people making decisions for the whole country, is that bad to think that way?



Dulfite said:
RolStoppable said:

Indeed. The thought that the majority could decide over the fate of a country is terrifying.

It truly is, and should be to everyone. People are ignorant and believe what they are fed. The media could come out with some crazy thing tomorrow, and go on a campaign for it for a month, and you'd see the public opinion change in the polls over it because people are easily manipulated.

Our elected officials, for all their flaws, are considerably less manipulated than the average joe, and therefore are able to make better decisions than the average joe. Stories like "The Circle" like to romanticize the idea of direct democracy without realizing the MASSIVE issues it will have. What happens if 51% of the population wants one thing one day, and change their mind literally the next day? Do laws get changed everyday then, going back and forth depending on who is alive today and who watched the news and was fed lies today, or some some lying facebook ad today?

As a conservative, I would rather have President Bernie Sanders, with Speaker of the House AOC and a 6-3 liberal Supreme Court than I would mob rule with direct democracy. I hope the POPULAR vote count is abolished one day, and we only see the electoral results.

Politicians getting elected via popular vote is not direct democracy. Where did you even get the crazy idea from that it is? The media?



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Shipments

Dulfite said:

Our elected officials, for all their flaws, are considerably less manipulated than the average joe, and therefore are able to make better decisions than the average joe.

I don't think I would say 'considerably' any more.
And those those elected officials you speak of are elected by the average joe manipulated masses.

Dulfite said:

What happens if 51% of the population wants one thing one day, and change their mind literally the next day? Do laws get changed everyday then

The same thing that happens if 51% of the senate, or anyone, wants one thing one day, and change their mind the next.
There's generally a designated period in between voting on any issue for a reason.



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Dulfite said:
RolStoppable said:

Indeed. The thought that the majority could decide over the fate of a country is terrifying.

It truly is, and should be to everyone. People are ignorant and believe what they are fed. The media could come out with some crazy thing tomorrow, and go on a campaign for it for a month, and you'd see the public opinion change in the polls over it because people are easily manipulated.

Our elected officials, for all their flaws, are considerably less manipulated than the average joe, and therefore are able to make better decisions than the average joe. Stories like "The Circle" like to romanticize the idea of direct democracy without realizing the MASSIVE issues it will have. What happens if 51% of the population wants one thing one day, and change their mind literally the next day? Do laws get changed everyday then, going back and forth depending on who is alive today and who watched the news and was fed lies today, or some some lying facebook ad today?

As a conservative, I would rather have President Bernie Sanders, with Speaker of the House AOC and a 6-3 liberal Supreme Court than I would mob rule with direct democracy. I hope the POPULAR vote count is abolished one day, and we only see the electoral results.

The person who got the most votes should hold office. Anything other than that is just bureaucratic tyranny. You don't actually know what a direct democracy is.



Dulfite said:

I went from wanting to argue with you (because BOTH parties are overly controlling like fascists on different issues, not just conservatives), to not wanting to comment because you started to go off the deep end, to wanting you to make this into a book that I would buy and read. I'd also take a movie, but I believe a book would be a better format for indulging your unlikely fantasy in more depth.

Well, as a left-wing Independent, I don't necessarily disagree that "BOTH parties" have fascist-enablers in them, although I would say that only the GOP has proud fascists voting for it and running for office under its label. Democrats are mostly neo-liberals who enable fascism, but don't believe in it. 

The rest of my predictions are quite realistic. The post-New Deal consensus created a bias where people thought we were in some End of History and when that consensus fell apart, it became apparent that history was still happening. A Great Depression level crisis would just expedite the events I was talking about, and that isn't entirely unlikely to happen in the following decades, but I think they'll happen nevertheless. We already are about where the U.S was in the late 1920's, a period right before one when there were indeed syndicalist insurrections and prominent fascist political-economic actors. 

There just isn't any FDR-esque figure to "save capitalism from itself" this time, and I don't suspect one will arise. Late-stage capitalism will continue to get horrible, unfortunately. 



Dulfite said:
RolStoppable said:

Indeed. The thought that the majority could decide over the fate of a country is terrifying.

It truly is, and should be to everyone. People are ignorant and believe what they are fed. The media could come out with some crazy thing tomorrow, and go on a campaign for it for a month, and you'd see the public opinion change in the polls over it because people are easily manipulated.

Our elected officials, for all their flaws, are considerably less manipulated than the average joe, and therefore are able to make better decisions than the average joe. Stories like "The Circle" like to romanticize the idea of direct democracy without realizing the MASSIVE issues it will have. What happens if 51% of the population wants one thing one day, and change their mind literally the next day? Do laws get changed everyday then, going back and forth depending on who is alive today and who watched the news and was fed lies today, or some some lying facebook ad today?

As a conservative, I would rather have President Bernie Sanders, with Speaker of the House AOC and a 6-3 liberal Supreme Court than I would mob rule with direct democracy. I hope the POPULAR vote count is abolished one day, and we only see the electoral results.

Ya know what, I'll step out of the shadows for this one.

This is a real subtle way of implying that states with smaller populations are smarter/ more educated than the more populous states.  I guess me as a Californian is 3.6x dumber than someone from Wyoming.  And don't even get me started on those Puerto Ricans.  Clearly the 3.2 million of them are all too stupid to be able to have a say in who the next president is.

/sarcasm

You have no idea how INFURIATING it is to live in a COUNTY that has a larger population than 43 states, but only represents 1/4 of the votes for 2 senators.  California has 1/9 the population of the US, and should represent 1/9 of the government.  Under the circumstances, we are ignored, or at worst, we face political retaliation.  For example, Republicans know they'll never win any statewide elections, and since the popular vote does not matter, they have no intention to court voters here.  The Trump administration has repeatedly retaliated against my state and it has made it more blue.  But that doesn't matter to them.

The Electoral College is about disenfranchisement.  Places with less people are given more say in governance, which flies in direct contradiction to the saying:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Under the current system, the only states that get special treatment and attention during elections are swing states.



NightlyPoe said:
numberwang said:

Who decided to play the music?

Just playing something to send a crowd home.  He'd been speaking at a rally when the news broke.

Reminds me a lot of the videos of Trump when he was younger while being interviewed professionally. Don't get the chance to see that side of him much anymore unfortunately.



RolStoppable said:
Dulfite said:

It truly is, and should be to everyone. People are ignorant and believe what they are fed. The media could come out with some crazy thing tomorrow, and go on a campaign for it for a month, and you'd see the public opinion change in the polls over it because people are easily manipulated.

Our elected officials, for all their flaws, are considerably less manipulated than the average joe, and therefore are able to make better decisions than the average joe. Stories like "The Circle" like to romanticize the idea of direct democracy without realizing the MASSIVE issues it will have. What happens if 51% of the population wants one thing one day, and change their mind literally the next day? Do laws get changed everyday then, going back and forth depending on who is alive today and who watched the news and was fed lies today, or some some lying facebook ad today?

As a conservative, I would rather have President Bernie Sanders, with Speaker of the House AOC and a 6-3 liberal Supreme Court than I would mob rule with direct democracy. I hope the POPULAR vote count is abolished one day, and we only see the electoral results.

Politicians getting elected via popular vote is not direct democracy. Where did you even get the crazy idea from that it is? The media?

Of course I know that. But there are people that wish we would have a direct democracy (with no representatives or electoral college) and that's what I'm against.