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Forums - Sony Discussion - PS5 Showcase - Wednesday Sept 16

sales2099 on 17 September 2020
Runa216 said:
I don't understand why some people are having conniption fits about some games being cross-gen. Yeah, I know Sony said they were gunning for making the next generation feel weighty and important and I get that this is a slight change from that...

...But you all know that being willing to adapt when it's best for your business and for your customers is the better thing to do than sticking to your guns. Change and adaptation are important in literally every aspect of your life, being stagnant and unwilling to learn or change is how you get stuff like MySpace and Blockbuster. Jesus people, some of you need to learn basic economics.

Plus, some games (like Ratchet and Clank) ARE utilizing the super fast SSD and can likely only really work with the intended effect on PS5. IT's called balance.

The difference between what Sony is doing and what Microsoft is doing is that Microsoft said that ALL of their games would be cross-gen for the first few years, thus devaluing the XSX, whereas Sony - while still not as dedicated to their initial goal as some of us would like - still have games exclusive to next gen. Again, it's called balance.

Balance, change, and adaptability are all very important. circumstances change, the world changes, customer needs change, supply chains change, everything changes, this is inevitable. The best companies are the ones that are willing to change and adapt with the times to do the best they can in the current situation. This isn't even like Xbox going from stuff like Forced Kinect and Always-Online DRM to...neither of those things, since that was pretty much murder. this is Sony going from a good idea to a better or more appropriate idea.

I think this is good. It's a nice balance between pushing the value of next gen and allowing those who need it to ease into next gen by getting games on the current gen. There's no way one can argue this is a bad thing except to point and go 'SONY LIED', when that's just not what happened. They changed. They adapted. They did what was best for their customers. this isn't a bad thing, stop trying to paint it as such.

This sounds like damage control. You can’t say “we believe in generations”, show games only on PS5 and then low key slip in that they are cross gen. It makes sense, how a new install base can possibly make as much profit as a base of 110 million...but that’s not the point. Sony positioned themselves as the traditional alternative to MSs “leave nobody behind” approach. And now they are arguably worse offenders then Xbox. 

The difference between what Sony and MS are doing is that MS is transparent from the start where as Sony is being shady. Sure people like us are informed. But that damage is done and many casuals get a false message. 

You going on a nice rant saying they adapted and it’s for the greater good. That’s nice and all but what about all the flak Xbox got for their cross gen initiative? We just gonna forget about that and pretend PS fans weren’t smug and elitist? Narratives change on a dime and this is no exception. I’d appreciate you at least own up to it before you accept Sony doing a MeToo of what Xbox is doing. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

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Intrinsic on 17 September 2020
sales2099 said:

This sounds like damage control. You can’t say “we believe in generations”, show games only on PS5 and then low key slip in that they are cross gen. It makes sense, how a new install base can possibly make as much profit as a base of 110 million...but that’s not the point. Sony positioned themselves as the traditional alternative to MSs “leave nobody behind” approach. And now they are arguably worse offenders then Xbox. 

The difference between what Sony and MS are doing is that MS is transparent from the start where as Sony is being shady. Sure people like us are informed. But that damage is done and many casuals get a false message. 

You going on a nice rant saying they adapted and it’s for the greater good. That’s nice and all but what about all the flak Xbox got for their cross gen initiative? We just gonna forget about that and pretend PS fans weren’t smug and elitist? Narratives change on a dime and this is no exception. I’d appreciate you at least own up to it before you accept Sony doing a MeToo of what Xbox is doing. 

You can take it however you want to take it. But let's be honest here.

PS Studio Releases in the first year:

  1. GOW2 (PS5)
  2. Ratchet (PS5)
  3. Demon Soul's (PS5)
  4. Destruction All-Stars (PS5)
  5. Returnal (PS5)*
  6. GT7 (PS5)*
  7. SpiderMan:MM (PS5 + PS4)
  8. Sackboy Adventures (PS5 + PS4)
  9. Horizon FW (PS5 + PS4)

If those 9 games listed, only 3 of them are cross-gen. If that doesn't tell you that they are focusing on next-gen I don't know what else would. All only said was that they believe in generations, and went onto to say "f going to the trouble of making a new console they believe that they should give people reasons to buy it". 

That is very very very different from MS saying, we don't believe in generations and everything from us over the next 2 years will be cross-gen.

Now if your issue is the messaging, I am with you on that, and just like back in March, I will say it again, sony's messaging sucks. It not that they lie or are misleading, but they simply do not give enough information or information in a transparent way. Even with all this, right there on the PS Blog, they mention the only games that are going to be cross-gen but go about it in a way that leaves it open to interpretation. 

Either way, this is very different from what MS is doing and you know it. Look at it this way, Sony showed Spiderman and HFW, and showed off the next-gen versions of those games (which we know now cause we know they are cross-gen), and they "looked" next-gen. MS showed Halo and it looked last gen. That's why MS was getting flak. Looking at the games I mentioned, its easier to believe or convince someone that the PS cross-gen games were built for the PS5 than it is to convince someone that Halo infinite was built for the XSX.

And this thing about casuals, it's honestly a forum thing. The casuals do not care one bit. The thing has sold out everywhere and no one outside the forums talking about this shit. Hell, casuals are actually happy that they get to play spiderman on their PS4. 

*games rumored to be 2021 but maybe 2022.

One last thing, I will say it again, and I even said it here when I was of the impression DS was also rose gen that I would just hold out on buying a PS5 until GOW is released. If everything sony announced was slated to be cross-gen, I would not buy a PS5 anytime soon. And that sentiment still applies to Xbox, because everything they are pushing out is expected to be cross-gen.

Last edited by Intrinsic - on 17 September 2020

Skeeuk on 17 September 2020

The whole world will want a ps5 there's no chance an xbox or pc will compete with this



...not much time to post anymore, used to be awesome on here really good fond memories from VGchartz...

PSN: Skeeuk - XBL: SkeeUK - PC: Skeeuk

really miss the VGCHARTZ of 2008 - 2013...

0D0 on 17 September 2020
Signalstar said:
The cross gen announcements are a huge letdown. Sony's messaging is so confusing. They seem as though they want people to migrate from PS4 to PS5 swiftly yet don't give exclusive incentives to do so. The PS4 is still priced way too high so why are they still supporting it with their most high profile upcoming software. Bad move IMO.

Agreed. The idea was to move on, but now we've got all those exclusive games on PS4.

I'm not upset tho. I'll probably play them on PS4.

Mike321 said:
Thank you Sony, you made my decision to get an xbox much easier.

Exactly. As much as I'm a PS fan, the idea of trying out the new Xbox (with better pre-order period) instead of jumping the PS4 ship seems very reasonable. Besides, there isn't many games that excited me, except GoW and FF.

I'll sleep on it, but high chance I'll be preordering an Xbox.

Full disclosure: I tried to secure a PS5 order, but no success.



God bless You.

My Total Sales prediction for PS4 by the end of 2021: 110m+

When PS4 will hit 100m consoles sold: Before Christmas 2019

There were three ravens sat on a tree / They were as blacke as they might be / The one of them said to his mate, Where shall we our breakfast take?


Runa216 on 17 September 2020
sales2099 said:

This sounds like damage control. You can’t say “we believe in generations”, show games only on PS5 and then low key slip in that they are cross gen. It makes sense, how a new install base can possibly make as much profit as a base of 110 million...but that’s not the point. Sony positioned themselves as the traditional alternative to MSs “leave nobody behind” approach. And now they are arguably worse offenders then Xbox. 

The difference between what Sony and MS are doing is that MS is transparent from the start where as Sony is being shady. Sure people like us are informed. But that damage is done and many casuals get a false message. 

You going on a nice rant saying they adapted and it’s for the greater good. That’s nice and all but what about all the flak Xbox got for their cross gen initiative? We just gonna forget about that and pretend PS fans weren’t smug and elitist? Narratives change on a dime and this is no exception. I’d appreciate you at least own up to it before you accept Sony doing a MeToo of what Xbox is doing. 

But I didn't say that. Sony did, then they changed as they realized they wouldn't be able to get as many consoles out there as initially thought. I always thought it was dumb to just cut off the generation right at the launch date by not having some games cross gen. It's not damage control, it's good business. it's what they should have done all along. some exclusive to next gen, some cross gen. That's logical. 

It sounds less like Sony fucked up and more like folks like you will twist anything to make a good decision look bad because tribalism and other nonsense. 

As I said there's a world of difference between Microsoft's 'next gen doesn't mean much, everything for the first two years is cross gen' and Sony's 'we want next gen to mean something, so we're making games that are exclusive to next gen and can only be had with the new hardward but some stuff is going to be cross gen since we know a lot of people won't have PS5 consoles in the first year'. It's easy to twist it, and I guess we'll see who's right when the sales come out, won't we? 

oh, wait. PS5 is sold out everywhere within minutes and I can still get an Xbox Series X or S at my local gamestop (They tried offering). So yeah, do all the mental gymnastics you want, Sony's doing it right. If they weren't...they'd have the hype levels of Xbox right now.



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

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Runa216 on 17 September 2020
Intrinsic said:

You can take it however you want to take it. But let's be honest here.

PS Studio Releases in the first year:

  1. GOW2 (PS5)
  2. Ratchet (PS5)
  3. Demon Soul's (PS5)
  4. Destruction All-Stars (PS5)
  5. Returnal (PS5)*
  6. GT7 (PS5)*
  7. SpiderMan:MM (PS5 + PS4)
  8. Sackboy Adventures (PS5 + PS4)
  9. Horizon FW (PS5 + PS4)

If those 9 games listed, only 3 of them are cross-gen. If that doesn't tell you that they are focusing on next-gen I don't know what else would. All only said was that they believe in generations, and went onto to say "f going to the trouble of making a new console they believe that they should give people reasons to buy it". 

That is very very very different from MS saying, we don't believe in generations and everything from us over the next 2 years will be cross-gen.

Now if your issue is the messaging, I am with you on that, and just like back in March, I will say it again, sony's messaging sucks. It not that they lie or are misleading, but they simply do not give enough information or information in a transparent way. Even with all this, right there on the PS Blog, they mention the only games that are going to be cross-gen but go about it in a way that leaves it open to interpretation. 

Either way, this is very different from what MS is doing and you know it. Look at it this way, Sony showed Spiderman and HFW, and showed off the next-gen versions of those games (which we know now cause we know they are cross-gen), and they "looked" next-gen. MS showed Halo and it looked last gen. That's why MS was getting flak. Looking at the games I mentioned, its easier to believe or convince someone that the PS cross-gen games were built for the PS5 than it is to convince someone that Halo infinite was built for the XSX.

And this thing about casuals, it's honestly a forum thing. The casuals do not care one bit. The thing has sold out everywhere and no one outside the forums talking about this shit. Hell, casuals are actually happy that they get to play spiderman on their PS4. 

*games rumored to be 2021 but maybe 2022.

One last thing, I will say it again, and I even said it here when I was of the impression DS was also rose gen that I would just hold out on buying a PS5 until GOW is released. If everything sony announced was slated to be cross-gen, I would not buy a PS5 anytime soon. And that sentiment still applies to Xbox, because everything they are pushing out is expected to be cross-gen.

your response was much better than mine. Now I feel bad. 



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

DroidKnight on 17 September 2020
Runa216 said:

 

But I didn't say that. Sony did, then they changed as they realized they wouldn't be able to get as many consoles out there as initially thought. I always thought it was dumb to just cut off the generation right at the launch date by not having some games cross gen. It's not damage control, it's good business. it's what they should have done all along. some exclusive to next gen, some cross gen. That's logical. 

It sounds less like Sony fucked up and more like folks like you will twist anything to make a good decision look bad because tribalism and other nonsense. 

As I said there's a world of difference between Microsoft's 'next gen doesn't mean much, everything for the first two years is cross gen' and Sony's 'we want next gen to mean something, so we're making games that are exclusive to next gen and can only be had with the new hardward but some stuff is going to be cross gen since we know a lot of people won't have PS5 consoles in the first year'. It's easy to twist it, and I guess we'll see who's right when the sales come out, won't we? 

oh, wait. PS5 is sold out everywhere within minutes and I can still get an Xbox Series X or S at my local gamestop (They tried offering). So yeah, do all the mental gymnastics you want, Sony's doing it right. If they weren't...they'd have the hype levels of Xbox right now.

Preorders for Xbox Series X and S doesn't start till the 22nd. 



...to avoid getting banned for inactivity, I may have to resort to comments that are of a lower overall quality and or beneath my moral standards.

hinch on 17 September 2020

Lets be honest here, Sony ripped Xbox a new one in terms of upcoming games. Especially next year. I still can't believe GoW is coming next year... fully expecting a delay on this one.



0D0 on 17 September 2020
Otter said:

The price of the games is going to make me wait until next year to start buying PS5 titles. Even if I get it this year I think I will only play current gen games and wait for PSN deals next year

My 2020 titles would be Cyberpunk & Immortals, both experienced through boost mode

John2290 said:
Omg, if it's true Ps5 games are going to be 80 euro here in Europe, if that is true I'm done with console gaming and going the 3070 or 3080 route.

Intrinsic said:
John2290 said:
Omg, if it's true Ps5 games are going to be 80 euro here in Europe, if that is true I'm done with console gaming and going the 3070 or 3080 route.

Wait...

So you really believe that prices will go up with consoles and then those same publishers would still keep their games priced at $50 on PC? If so you are in for a shock very soon then.

And all that €80 stuff is just a lot of hot air and nonsense. The prices will all come in line. There is no reason games will be $70 but in turn, be €80 but then the $ vs € price of the hardware itself is the same.

I think full prices will be back to $60 later next year when all this cross gen shenanigans end.

Having said that, no matter how inflation is real and the "games have been cheap for 20 years" argument, I'm still not ok with paying $70. The industry has been getting richer and they've been relying on the engines where they reuse a lot of stuff. I'm not convinced by the "games a tougher to make, gimme more money" mentality.

$70 for sports games is nonsense. Sports games should be cheaper. They reuse almost 90% of everything for 10 years and want more quid?



God bless You.

My Total Sales prediction for PS4 by the end of 2021: 110m+

When PS4 will hit 100m consoles sold: Before Christmas 2019

There were three ravens sat on a tree / They were as blacke as they might be / The one of them said to his mate, Where shall we our breakfast take?


Raven on 17 September 2020
Runa216 said:
sales2099 said:

This sounds like damage control. You can’t say “we believe in generations”, show games only on PS5 and then low key slip in that they are cross gen. It makes sense, how a new install base can possibly make as much profit as a base of 110 million...but that’s not the point. Sony positioned themselves as the traditional alternative to MSs “leave nobody behind” approach. And now they are arguably worse offenders then Xbox. 

The difference between what Sony and MS are doing is that MS is transparent from the start where as Sony is being shady. Sure people like us are informed. But that damage is done and many casuals get a false message. 

You going on a nice rant saying they adapted and it’s for the greater good. That’s nice and all but what about all the flak Xbox got for their cross gen initiative? We just gonna forget about that and pretend PS fans weren’t smug and elitist? Narratives change on a dime and this is no exception. I’d appreciate you at least own up to it before you accept Sony doing a MeToo of what Xbox is doing. 

But I didn't say that. Sony did, then they changed as they realized they wouldn't be able to get as many consoles out there as initially thought. I always thought it was dumb to just cut off the generation right at the launch date by not having some games cross gen. It's not damage control, it's good business. it's what they should have done all along. some exclusive to next gen, some cross gen. That's logical. 

It sounds less like Sony fucked up and more like folks like you will twist anything to make a good decision look bad because tribalism and other nonsense. 

As I said there's a world of difference between Microsoft's 'next gen doesn't mean much, everything for the first two years is cross gen' and Sony's 'we want next gen to mean something, so we're making games that are exclusive to next gen and can only be had with the new hardward but some stuff is going to be cross gen since we know a lot of people won't have PS5 consoles in the first year'. It's easy to twist it, and I guess we'll see who's right when the sales come out, won't we? 

oh, wait. PS5 is sold out everywhere within minutes and I can still get an Xbox Series X or S at my local gamestop (They tried offering). So yeah, do all the mental gymnastics you want, Sony's doing it right. If they weren't...they'd have the hype levels of Xbox right now.

I'm curious how you can do that when Microsoft hasn't even officially started taking preorders... 



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