Forums - Gaming Discussion - Apple removes Fortnite from app store, cant connect to servers. Epic Games Sues.

kirby007 said:
Darwinianevolution said:
So Epic is suing Apple for their monopolistic business model. It's like the pot calling the kettle black.

Question for you, how does that invalidate the point epic makes?

It doesn't, that's the thing. This is a monopolistic company denouncing another one for being even more monopolistic. Neither one is fully in the right, though. Epic can't just ignore or play around the platform's rules because they consider them bad, and Apple (and Google as well I assume, I imagine this extra paying system must be on Android as well) can't just push their weight around everyone else and don't expect anti-trust measures.

I feel like Apple has the legal upper hand in this, while Epic has the better point, but again, pot and kettle.



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All this talk in here about companies having their own stores.

I hope not, it's bad enough on PC as it is, on consoles and mobile a plethora of stores and launchers would be one royal mess and the opposite of 'consumer friendly' to my experience. I want all my stuff in one place d*mnit.



Apple is such a trash company , one of the upper class worst.

(outside of their need to control for profit they are also very inhumane behind all the pretence )



Darwinianevolution said:

It doesn't, that's the thing. This is a monopolistic company denouncing another one for being even more monopolistic. Neither one is fully in the right, though. Epic can't just ignore or play around the platform's rules because they consider them bad, and Apple (and Google as well I assume, I imagine this extra paying system must be on Android as well) can't just push their weight around everyone else and don't expect anti-trust measures.

I feel like Apple has the legal upper hand in this, while Epic has the better point, but again, pot and kettle.

Going by the words from lawyers on Youtube, I'd say Apple has the right to even counter-sue, and win. 

I seriously hope those in favour of Epic look at what lawyers are saying, because so far they are making a far better case than some rando on a gaming forum.



               

S.Peelman said:

All this talk in here about companies having their own stores.

I hope not, it's bad enough on PC as it is, on consoles and mobile a plethora of stores and launchers would be one royal mess and the opposite of 'consumer friendly' to my experience. I want all my stuff in one place d*mnit.

That depends though. If you have companies buying up exclusives for their store/launcher *cough* Epic *cough* then it's not consumer friendly. However if it doesn't mean things are restricted to certain places only then it would actually be better for the consumer. More choice is a good thing.



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Immersiveunreality said:

Apple is such a trash company , one of the upper class worst.

(outside of their need to control for profit they are also very inhumane behind all the pretence )

Can think of worse.



Has Sony released a statement on the situation yet?

It'd be interesting to know their stance given they have a minority stake in Epic.



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Ka-pi96 said:
S.Peelman said:

All this talk in here about companies having their own stores.

I hope not, it's bad enough on PC as it is, on consoles and mobile a plethora of stores and launchers would be one royal mess and the opposite of 'consumer friendly' to my experience. I want all my stuff in one place d*mnit.

That depends though. If you have companies buying up exclusives for their store/launcher *cough* Epic *cough* then it's not consumer friendly. However if it doesn't mean things are restricted to certain places only then it would actually be better for the consumer. More choice is a good thing.

But that never happens, it's always like the former.



https://wccftech.com/google-follows-apple-and-removes-fortnite-from-the-google-play-store/

Excuse me while I just



               

Ryuu96 said:

Conflicted...

I dislike Apple and Epic almost equally.

I do want some of Apple's app store policies to change, however, Epic will almost certainly lose this lawsuit, legally I don't see how Apple did anything wrong, they have a ToS, which Epic broke, it's as simple as that.

I'd rather Epic worked with EU on an antitrust against Apple to try to change some of their store policies because that is honestly the only way Apple is going to change, they will likely win the lawsuit Epic has filed against them and they won't really give a crap about angry Fortnite users when they continue being one of the richest companies in the world.

I also really don't like how Epic is essentially doing a "Gamers Rise Up" with it's fanbase, it feels wrong and kinda fucked up, Epic is basically setting attack dogs in the form of gamers against companies they have a disagreement with, bunch of angry rabid fans will not really help anything, settle it in the courts.

Imagine Epic having a disagreement with Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft, no matter how small and thus they set their fanbase on them, it's a pretty shitty tactic.

Ngl the whole thing is pretty funny though, both companies suck, Android is probably loving it, I still think only EU will change Apple so let Apple/Epic have their little fight, won't really change much I don't think, both companies suck but I hope Apple changes some policies.

I'm gonna have to repeat myself alot of times, but here goes: Epic knows they are breaching Apples ToS. They also did this knowing this would happen, and were prepared to go to court. They will obviously not argue that they are not breaching Apples ToS - they will argue that Apples ToS are illegal. They are also obviously aware of the EU's anti-trust investigation into Apple's practices, and they will certainly help as much as they can with info, but that case is the EU vs Apple, not EU + other companies vs Apple.

To be clear, I don't know where this lawsuit will go, but it's not as simple as "Epic breached Apple's ToS, they are legally in the wrong".

RolStoppable said:
JRPGfan said:

I think they actually lowered the ingame prices on the microtransactions (ei. passed on the saveings, they wouldnt be paying apple, onto the end users).

Also, its not a matter of "they will pay the same as before".
Its now a matter of, "I cannot play fornite on my phone anymore" for iphone users (apple removed it from store, and made it so it cannot connect to servers).

If they lowered the prices of the microtransactions, then that's just a temporary sale to garner mindshare. Once Epic has succeeded in breaking free from royalty fees, they are bound to return the prices to their original values.

This entire situation is caused by Epic's deliberate breach of contract, but Epic is doing what they can to frame it as the fault of Apple. Why? Because Epic wants more money.

Of course it's about money. You of all people should know and shouldn't really care. It IS about money for Epic, but if Apple was forced to allow competing storefronts on iOS, it would still be good for consumers

shikamaru317 said:

This is an interesting dilemma . On the one hand, Epic is clearly in the wrong here, you can't just circumvent a store to avoid paying the store that is hosting your game whatever percentage they ask for, imagine if a developer did this on Xbox Store or Playstation Store. On the other hand though, the 30% cut that Apple charges is ridiculous, Epic themselves charge 12% on their PC store (which is less than Valve charges on Steam), while Microsoft takes I think between 5 and 15% depending on how many sales/downloads.

If Apple would allow you to download apps from other sources it would be fine. Microtransactions for downloads through the app store? Apple gets their cut. If you wanna publish your app elsewhere and not pay Apple (but also not get the visibility from being on the App store, that should be fine. If people buy games through PS Store or Xbox Store, sure microtransactions should also go through there, and they could get their cut. But why shouldn't other storefronts be allowed on consoles? It's completely arbitrary and the only reason to be against it is through force of habit or some strange financial loyalty to console makers.

Ryuu96 said:

I don't see how they have a case Tbh.

Apple has very clear ToS which Epic would have had to agree to, Epic broke the ToS, Apple removed the app for the violation.

I feel like this lawsuit is going to be a waste of time and Epic will lose.

Fair enough if they attacked Apple's ToS and tried to get them to change them, I feel like the only way that is happening is with EU though, I genuinely believe the only way Apple will change is from an antitrust from EU.

This little fight though? Apple will live, they'll move on, they rolled in money before Fortnite, they'll continue to do after and I want Apple's policies to change but eh...I'm not sure this is the best way to do it.

See my previous reply to you. Breaching the ToS is unimportant if the ToS are illegal.

twintail said:

How is it bad practice? No store front is under obligation to allow your content if I violates said stores rules.

Unless under misinterpreted your question.

It's fine to not allow content on your store if it violates the rules. The problem is that Apple won't allow you to make your own store (with your own rules) either. The physical analogy would be if you want to sell something, but Apple doesn't allow you to sell it from their physical locations. Okay, fine, I'll make my own shop you think. But Apple also owns all the real-estate there is and won't allow you to make a shop anywhere.