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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Do you think Nintendo killed off the Wii too early

 

Was the Wii killed off too early?

Yes 41 53.95%
 
No, Nintendo needed to move on 35 46.05%
 
Total:76
Soundwave said:

Pokemon isn't really a great example because it's a massive outlier, a once in a 50 year type phenomenon that came out of nowhere. You can't really say "well see Wii, Pokemon boosted Game Boy 8 years after launch, why can't you do the same", like that's not a realistic ask for a software library. 

The fact is even when the Wii had major releases like NSMB Wii and Super Mario Galaxy 2, the system still was on a sales decline. 

I think XBox 360 getting Kinect also hurt the Wii, because really it stripped the Wii of being a unique system which the only go to place to play Wii Sports type games. All of the sudden you gave consumers a choice between one console that can play Wii (well Kinect) Sports + Call of Duty for the teenager in the house versus the Wii which had Wii Sports and didn't have the "real" Call of Duty. 

For a mom trying to make her kids happy and wanting to have some bowling fun when the grandparents came over, by 2010, honestly the XBox 360 was the better option and also quite affordable. Instead of having to buy the Wii for Wii Sports/Fit and then get a 360 for your 13 year old, you could just buy one that basically did both things. For a lot of families I think once that option was presented to them it became more attractive than the Wii. Why buy two different systems spending several hundred dollars more when you don't have to. 

I mean IIRC the XBox 360 very rarely beat the Wii in NPD sales prior to Kinect releasing, but after Kinect released they were no.1 on the NPD chart for the majority of the time. This is also the danger of banking so heavily on simplistic games ... that can copied eventually by other companies (Brain Training, Wii Sports, etc.). It's not so easy to copy Mario or Zelda or even Pokemon. 

To be honest the Sony Wii Sports ripoff (can't even remember the name) was the best one from what I played. The controller was really accurate and felt like your movements were really accurately reflected on screen. 

We're talking about Nintendo here. Don't ask me to give examples, the Wii itself was a knock-off hit.

Whatever Xbox and Playstation did, Nintendo was king in motion controls. They let the thunder slip out of their hands, it's really time to face the music.

The best you could argue is that motion were going out of style. In which case, again, this is Nintendo. They had knock-off hits in pretty much every type of game imaginable.



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padib said:
Soundwave said:

Pokemon isn't really a great example because it's a massive outlier, a once in a 50 year type phenomenon that came out of nowhere. You can't really say "well see Wii, Pokemon boosted Game Boy 8 years after launch, why can't you do the same", like that's not a realistic ask for a software library. 

The fact is even when the Wii had major releases like NSMB Wii and Super Mario Galaxy 2, the system still was on a sales decline. 

I think XBox 360 getting Kinect also hurt the Wii, because really it stripped the Wii of being a unique system which the only go to place to play Wii Sports type games. All of the sudden you gave consumers a choice between one console that can play Wii (well Kinect) Sports + Call of Duty for the teenager in the house versus the Wii which had Wii Sports and didn't have the "real" Call of Duty. 

For a mom trying to make her kids happy and wanting to have some bowling fun when the grandparents came over, by 2010, honestly the XBox 360 was the better option and also quite affordable. Instead of having to buy the Wii for Wii Sports/Fit and then get a 360 for your 13 year old, you could just buy one that basically did both things. For a lot of families I think once that option was presented to them it became more attractive than the Wii. Why buy two different systems spending several hundred dollars more when you don't have to. 

I mean IIRC the XBox 360 very rarely beat the Wii in NPD sales prior to Kinect releasing, but after Kinect released they were no.1 on the NPD chart for the majority of the time. This is also the danger of banking so heavily on simplistic games ... that can copied eventually by other companies (Brain Training, Wii Sports, etc.). It's not so easy to copy Mario or Zelda or even Pokemon. 

To be honest the Sony Wii Sports ripoff (can't even remember the name) was the best one from what I played. The controller was really accurate and felt like your movements were really accurately reflected on screen. 

We're talking about Nintendo here. Don't ask me to give examples, the Wii itself was a knock-off hit.

Whatever Xbox and Playstation did, Nintendo was king in motion controls. They let the thunder slip out of their hands, it's really time to face the music.

The best you could argue is that motion were going out of style. In which case, again, this is Nintendo. They had knock-off hits in pretty much every type of game imaginable.

Go look at 360 vs Wii NPD pre-Kinect and post-Kinect. MS starts to win almost every month. What a magical coincidence don't you think? 

There is no king of motion gaming because it's an idea that can be copied. It's like saying Nintendo was the king of brain training ... this is an idea now that has been copied in so many shovelware apps on smartphones and online websites that it's really not special. 

Switch won't have this problem though because you can't copy a portable console with a full blown software ecosystem (no half assing it like Vita) as a concept very easily. 

Anyone can make a brain training/brain teaser game or a sports compilation with bowling. The Sony bowling one was pretty much as good as the Wii Sports one from what I remember, the tennis was better. 



Soundwave said:
padib said:

We're talking about Nintendo here. Don't ask me to give examples, the Wii itself was a knock-off hit.

Whatever Xbox and Playstation did, Nintendo was king in motion controls. They let the thunder slip out of their hands, it's really time to face the music.

The best you could argue is that motion were going out of style. In which case, again, this is Nintendo. They had knock-off hits in pretty much every type of game imaginable.

Go look at 360 vs Wii NPD pre-Kinect and post-Kinect. MS starts to win almost every month. What a magical coincidence don't you think? 

There is no king of motion gaming because it's an idea that can be copied. It's like saying Nintendo was the king of brain training ... this is an idea now that has been copied in so many shovelware apps on smartphones and online websites that it's really not special. 

Switch won't have this problem though because you can't copy a portable console with a full blown software ecosystem (no half assing it like Vita) as a concept very easily. 

Anyone can make a brain training/brain teaser game or a sports compilation with bowling. The Sony bowling one was pretty much as good as the Wii Sports one from what I remember, the tennis was better. 

So Nintendo should have made an EyeToy instead of the WiiU? Makes sense.



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Soundwave said:

Go look at 360 vs Wii NPD pre-Kinect and post-Kinect. MS starts to win almost every month. What a magical coincidence don't you think? 

There is no king of motion gaming because it's an idea that can be copied. It's like saying Nintendo was the king of brain training ... this is an idea now that has been copied in so many shovelware apps on smartphones and online websites that it's really not special. 

Switch won't have this problem though because you can't copy a portable console with a full blown software ecosystem (no half assing it like Vita) as a concept very easily. 

Anyone can make a brain training/brain teaser game or a sports compilation with bowling. The Sony bowling one was pretty much as good as the Wii Sports one from what I remember, the tennis was better. 

Is PS the king of "core" (read maintstream adult) console gaming?

Let's not kid ourselves, Nintendo had a massive lead and advantage over the other two. Like I said, they let it slip, let's just admit what happened.

Still it's really funny how you use a rule for one thing and not for the other. If it could (UNLIKELY) happen for Wii, then it could potentially happen for Switch.

That's the strange thing about talking sales, is that people always rest on assumptions.

Last edited by padib - on 10 August 2020

Pyro as Bill said:
Soundwave said:

Go look at 360 vs Wii NPD pre-Kinect and post-Kinect. MS starts to win almost every month. What a magical coincidence don't you think? 

There is no king of motion gaming because it's an idea that can be copied. It's like saying Nintendo was the king of brain training ... this is an idea now that has been copied in so many shovelware apps on smartphones and online websites that it's really not special. 

Switch won't have this problem though because you can't copy a portable console with a full blown software ecosystem (no half assing it like Vita) as a concept very easily. 

Anyone can make a brain training/brain teaser game or a sports compilation with bowling. The Sony bowling one was pretty much as good as the Wii Sports one from what I remember, the tennis was better. 

So Nintendo should have made an EyeToy instead of the WiiU? Makes sense.

No they did the correct thing. The reality just is that pre-2010 the Wii was unique and special but after Kinect and Move came out it really wasn't. Just like Brain Training isn't really special anymore because there's like 20 apps on your phone you can get for free that approximate the same thing. 

Kinect Sports was relatively fun and polished, so was the Sony one, you can't really say "well only Wii Sports was fun". 

I think that had an impact on Wii sales for sure. Why buy two systems if you really don't have to. 

You can't really stop other companies from copying such ideas eventually though and having their own polished product, it's simply a matter of spending money. 



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Soundwave said:
Pyro as Bill said:

So Nintendo should have made an EyeToy instead of the WiiU? Makes sense.

No they did the correct thing. The reality just is that pre-2010 the Wii was unique and special but after Kinect and Move came out it really wasn't. Just like Brain Training isn't really special anymore because there's like 20 apps on your phone you can get for free that approximate the same thing. 

Kinect Sports was relatively fun and polished, so was the Sony one, you can't really say "well only Wii Sports was fun". 

I think that had an impact on Wii sales for sure. Why buy two systems if you really don't have to. 

You can't really stop other companies from copying such ideas eventually though and having their own polished product, it's simply a matter of spending money. 

It had an impact, that's undoubted. But the loss of the casual marketshare is in majority due to Nintendo letting it go. And like I said, if it was not motion controls, it was another knock-off hit, that Nintendo has proven time and time again capable of creating out of thin air.

Like many say, only Nintendo can kill Nintendo.



padib said:
Soundwave said:

No they did the correct thing. The reality just is that pre-2010 the Wii was unique and special but after Kinect and Move came out it really wasn't. Just like Brain Training isn't really special anymore because there's like 20 apps on your phone you can get for free that approximate the same thing. 

Kinect Sports was relatively fun and polished, so was the Sony one, you can't really say "well only Wii Sports was fun". 

I think that had an impact on Wii sales for sure. Why buy two systems if you really don't have to. 

You can't really stop other companies from copying such ideas eventually though and having their own polished product, it's simply a matter of spending money. 

It had an impact, that's undoubted. But the loss of the casual marketshare is in majority due to Nintendo letting it go. And like I said, if it was not motion controls, it was another knock-off hit, that Nintendo has proven time and time again capable of creating out of thin air.

Like many say, only Nintendo can kill Nintendo.

How do you lose a market that rapidly in like 6 months though, because most people admit through 2010 the Wii had a "good library".

2011 even you still have Zelda: Skyward Sword, Just Dance selling like a big ticket ever green, and by that point the system like more than a thousand software titles. 

I really doubt the consumer who buys a console when its 5 years old is really up to speed on the system's month to month release schedule. 

If you didn't have a Wii by 2011, it was more than a good enough value software wise, that means you didn't have Super Mario Galaxy 1 or 2, Smash Bros. Brawl, Mario Kart Wii, Zelda: Twilight Princess (well unless you had the GameCube version which is like 10 regular people minus the collectors), Metroid Prime 3, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Sin & Punishment 2, Wii Sports Resort, Wii Fit Plus, Wii Party, How Much Fucking Wii Can you Wii (kidding), Punch-Out, Red Steel 2, Monster Hunter Tri, GoldenEye 007, ... plus hundreds and hundreds of other games. 

If you're still at that point saying "no, sorry Nintendo I saw your June/July release schedule and I won't buy because of that" ... you really are some strange niche of a consumer. 

The enthusiast gamer who's buying a system in like 2007 maybe looks at stuff like that, but the person in the market for a system in year 5/6/7 is not that person. 



Soundwave said:

How do you lose a market that rapidly in like 6 months though, because most people admit through 2010 the Wii had a "good library".

2011 even you still have Zelda: Skyward Sword, Just Dance selling like a big ticket ever green, and by that point the system like more than a thousand software titles. 

I really doubt the consumer who buys a console when its 5 years old is really up to speed on the system's month to month release schedule. 

If you didn't have a Wii by 2011, it was more than a good enough value software wise, that means you didn't have Super Mario Galaxy 1 or 2, Smash Bros. Brawl, Mario Kart Wii, Zelda: Twilight Princess (well unless you had the GameCube version which is like 10 regular people minus the collectors), Metroid Prime 3, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Sin & Punishment 2, Wii Sports Resort, Wii Fit Plus, Wii Party, How Much Fucking Wii Can you Wii (kidding), Punch-Out, Red Steel 2, Monster Hunter Tri, GoldenEye 007, ... plus hundreds and hundreds of other games. 

If you're still at that point saying "no, sorry Nintendo I saw your June/July release schedule and I won't buy because of that" ... you really are some strange niche of a consumer. 

The enthusiast gamer who's buying a system in like 2007 maybe looks at stuff like that, but the person in the market for a system in year 5/6/7 is not that person. 

Hehe, I like it :)

THere were a lot of great games that came out, that's true, and it seems like there were like two types of audiences on the Wii. Most of the games you mentioned were Switch-type games, that didn't necessarily involve motion controls, still as good as some were, they didn't have the selling power of the games we see on Switch, and they stopped coming out by 2010/2011. In order to sustain momentum, the console needs to continue to stay relevant. I think we're all agreeing that something made the Wii go stale, and it might be either a lack of a marketing push, a lack of new fresh game experiences, or both.

Go back to the game boy, it never really stopped pumping out games and stayed relevant. The power of Software, imho, is greatly underrepresented in our debates, and I find that the PS2, Game boy and even NES showed us that it's possible.



padib said:
Soundwave said:

No they did the correct thing. The reality just is that pre-2010 the Wii was unique and special but after Kinect and Move came out it really wasn't. Just like Brain Training isn't really special anymore because there's like 20 apps on your phone you can get for free that approximate the same thing. 

Kinect Sports was relatively fun and polished, so was the Sony one, you can't really say "well only Wii Sports was fun". 

I think that had an impact on Wii sales for sure. Why buy two systems if you really don't have to. 

You can't really stop other companies from copying such ideas eventually though and having their own polished product, it's simply a matter of spending money. 

It had an impact, that's undoubted. But the loss of the casual marketshare is in majority due to Nintendo letting it go. And like I said, if it was not motion controls, it was another knock-off hit, that Nintendo has proven time and time again capable of creating out of thin air.

Like many say, only Nintendo can kill Nintendo.

Because good motion control is the logic evolving around some arcade games. Nintendo is the last major arcade producer in the console market. Sega gone, Atari gone. The arcade type game is the Nintendo mastercraft. And aways explode in sales when evolved the arcade type of game. Nintendo master racing arcade (mk) game, fighting arcade games(smash), open-world arcade games (botw), etc. Wii sports and wii fit is arcade games applied with motion control. The motion control response, with Microsoft and sony, is more computer games like visualized motion control and fewer arcade games, that is one the major drawback around Microsoft and sony initiative: their origins is around computer games and not arcade games. Nintendo stop producer big arcade games in 2011, Zelda is the worst Zelda ever and less arcade game ever. Metroid Other M is a cinematograph computer game in a console arcade type. The last medium-big game is Donkey Kong Returns and the last to sells more than 5 million. The switch has better motions controls and betters motion feedback. 



Soundwave said:
RolStoppable said:
When I saw that this thread had one new post without a blue icon on my forum buddy, I suspected that Soundwave fell back on his usual tactic when his arguments are done for. Avoid a direct quote to increase the chances to have the last word, make ample use of strawman arguments and go off on a tangent. Nothing new here.

The fact is none of the GBA, GCN, or Wii U got satisfying 5 year support cycles yet all of their successors had tremendous success. 

You can't argue that point because it's a fact. 

You can't argue the point that the most successful XBox system also succeeded the original XBox that was replaced on market after only 3 years. 

That's not an opinion that's fact. 

Even same thing for the Sega Genesis really. The Master System released in 1986 and was replaced just three years later by the Genesis which is by a country mile Sega's most successful platform.

I'm not seeing any corrleation here between short product cycles and a large impact on the successor, if that's a fact this shouldn't be the case. 

The GBA "had great support" for 2005 and 2006 is also a very dubious statement ... if Nintendo released a Switch 2 in fall 2020 (3 1/2 years just like GBA got) but said "don't worry guys we'll still make an enhanced version of Pokemon Sword/Shield (not even a full new game) and one Fire Emblem for the OG Switch and then a small handful of farmed out titles for 2021 and then dick all for 2022" I'm sure Rol would shit a literal brick, but apparently for GBA that constitutes "great support", lol. 

You aren't any good in discussions, Soundwave. That's why you come up with strawman arguments all the time. Here's the actual argument:

1. A successful console is supposed to be supported by its manufacturer even beyond the launch of its successor, because the high installed base of the hardware means that there's a strong interest in purchases of new software for a long time. The GBA received first party support beyond the launch of the DS, but the Wii did not receive first party support beyond the launch of the Wii U. Therefore Nintendo had abandoned the Wii too early. Remember, Just Dance 2020 still released on the Wii because it made sense financially.

2. For a failed console it's the opposite. There's no big active installed base that buys software late in the lifecycle because owners have in large part already moved on to other platforms. In such cases it's rational for the console manufacturer not to support the console beyond the launch of its successor. The GC, Wii U and Xbox all fall into this category, because all of them were indisputable failures. They were killed off at the right time.

But apparently such short points are too much for you to comprehend and you keep going on about impact on the successor. You keep missing the point consistently and it's very probable that it's deliberate on your part, unless you want to argue that you really are that dense.



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