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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Do you think Nintendo killed off the Wii too early

 

Was the Wii killed off too early?

Yes 41 53.95%
 
No, Nintendo needed to move on 35 46.05%
 
Total:76
RolStoppable said:
Soundwave said:

The fact is none of the GBA, GCN, or Wii U got satisfying 5 year support cycles yet all of their successors had tremendous success. 

You can't argue that point because it's a fact. 

You can't argue the point that the most successful XBox system also succeeded the original XBox that was replaced on market after only 3 years. 

That's not an opinion that's fact. 

Even same thing for the Sega Genesis really. The Master System released in 1986 and was replaced just three years later by the Genesis which is by a country mile Sega's most successful platform.

I'm not seeing any corrleation here between short product cycles and a large impact on the successor, if that's a fact this shouldn't be the case. 

The GBA "had great support" for 2005 and 2006 is also a very dubious statement ... if Nintendo released a Switch 2 in fall 2020 (3 1/2 years just like GBA got) but said "don't worry guys we'll still make an enhanced version of Pokemon Sword/Shield (not even a full new game) and one Fire Emblem for the OG Switch and then a small handful of farmed out titles for 2021 and then dick all for 2022" I'm sure Rol would shit a literal brick, but apparently for GBA that constitutes "great support", lol. 

You aren't any good in discussions, Soundwave. That's why you come up with strawman arguments all the time. Here's the actual argument:

1. A successful console is supposed to be supported by its manufacturer even beyond the launch of its successor, because the high installed base of the hardware means that there's a strong interest in purchases of new software for a long time. The GBA received first party support beyond the launch of the DS, but the Wii did not receive first party support beyond the launch of the Wii U. Therefore Nintendo had abandoned the Wii too early. Remember, Just Dance 2020 still released on the Wii because it made sense financially.

2. For a failed console it's the opposite. There's no big active installed base that buys software late in the lifecycle because owners have in large part already moved on to other platforms. In such cases it's rational for the console manufacturer not to support the console beyond the launch of its successor. The GC, Wii U and Xbox all fall into this category, because all of them were indisputable failures. They were killed off at the right time.

But apparently such short points are too much for you to comprehend and you keep going on about impact on the successor. You keep missing the point consistently and it's very probable that it's deliberate on your part, unless you want to argue that you really are that dense.

The GBA got token support for a year because even by Nintendo standards cutting it after 3 1/2 years was pushing it.

Nintendo doesn't have some magic button they can push where they can magically make games out of nowhere. The Wii had 5 full years of software support, they had to move on and support 3DS and Wii U, that's just the way it goes. You cannot live in the past. 

The NES did not get all that much support after the SNES launched, tough shit. That's how it goes. The PS2 did not get much support from Sony after the PS3 launched. The SNES got very little support after the N64 launched.  

There's nothing special about the Wii that warranted it being treated any differently. The system was declining hard well before 2012 anyway.  

Companies only have finite resources they can't fixate on declining end of product cycle systems with major games, it's a stupid waste of resources. Yes you can squeeze some extra juice out of the orange, that's not anything magically exclusive to the Wii. You can make Super Mario World on the NES and release it in 1991, it would also be a very stupid thing to do in the big picture. 



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Soundwave said:

The GBA got token support for a year because even by Nintendo standards cutting it after 3 1/2 years was pushing it.

Nintendo doesn't have some magic button they can push where they can magically make games out of nowhere. The Wii had 5 full years of software support, they had to move on and support 3DS and Wii U, that's just the way it goes. You cannot live in the past. 

The NES did not get all that much support after the SNES launched, tough shit. That's how it goes. The PS2 did not get much support from Sony after the PS3 launched. The SNES got very little support after the N64 launched.  

There's nothing special about the Wii that warranted it being treated any differently. The system was declining hard well before 2012 anyway.  

Companies only have finite resources they can't fixate on declining end of product cycle systems with major games, it's a stupid waste of resources. Yes you can squeeze some extra juice out of the orange, that's not anything magically exclusive to the Wii. You can make Super Mario World on the NES and release it in 1991, it would also be a very stupid thing to do in the big picture. 

Your argumentation lacks consistency. You point out previous successful consoles which all saw support after the launch of their respective successor and then continue to say that there was nothing special about the Wii that warranted it being treated any differently. Yet the Wii was treated differently, with its support being cut sooner than for other successful consoles.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Shipments

RolStoppable said:
Soundwave said:

The GBA got token support for a year because even by Nintendo standards cutting it after 3 1/2 years was pushing it.

Nintendo doesn't have some magic button they can push where they can magically make games out of nowhere. The Wii had 5 full years of software support, they had to move on and support 3DS and Wii U, that's just the way it goes. You cannot live in the past. 

The NES did not get all that much support after the SNES launched, tough shit. That's how it goes. The PS2 did not get much support from Sony after the PS3 launched. The SNES got very little support after the N64 launched.  

There's nothing special about the Wii that warranted it being treated any differently. The system was declining hard well before 2012 anyway.  

Companies only have finite resources they can't fixate on declining end of product cycle systems with major games, it's a stupid waste of resources. Yes you can squeeze some extra juice out of the orange, that's not anything magically exclusive to the Wii. You can make Super Mario World on the NES and release it in 1991, it would also be a very stupid thing to do in the big picture. 

Your argumentation lacks consistency. You point out previous successful consoles which all saw support after the launch of their respective successor and then continue to say that there was nothing special about the Wii that warranted it being treated any differently. Yet the Wii was treated differently, with its support being cut sooner than for other successful consoles.

Which systems had significant support from their console manufacturers after the release of the successor? Can you point them out? 

Developer support isn't a luxury, it's a very valuable and finite resource, Nintendo in particular does not have freebie resources where they can take care of two newborn game consoles (3DS and Wii U) that need constant early gen support and oh by the way also support the declining Wii too. Why not ask for continued DS support too while we're at it since the DS was far more successful than the Wii. 

This is like asking a parent to look after newborn twins while also having two older children that are so useless they can't do anything for themselves even though they're at an age where they shouldn't need constant attention. The parent is going to collapse from exhaustion. 

I'm sure Iwata could've just pulled all the design teams for all these magical projects out of his ass. Asking any company, even MS or Sony, to simultaneously provide significant support for 3-4 platforms at once is just a flat out stupid thing to ask for. It's not even remotely realistic. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 11 August 2020

Soundwave said:
RolStoppable said:

Your argumentation lacks consistency. You point out previous successful consoles which all saw support after the launch of their respective successor and then continue to say that there was nothing special about the Wii that warranted it being treated any differently. Yet the Wii was treated differently, with its support being cut sooner than for other successful consoles.

Which systems had significant support from their console manufacturers after the release of the successor? Can you point them out? 

Developer support isn't a luxury, it's a very valuable and finite resource, Nintendo in particular does not have freebie resources where they can take care of two newborn game consoles (3DS and Wii U) that need constant early gen support and oh by the way also support the Wii too. Why not ask for continued DS support too while we're at it since the DS was far more successful than the Wii. 

I'm sure Iwata could've just pulled all the design teams for all these magical projects out of his ass. 

I see, you are trying to upgrade "support" to "significant support" now. A good indicator that you are losing the argument at hand.

The DS received first party support beyond the launch of the 3DS. You should have checked the facts before submitting your post.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Shipments

RolStoppable said:
Soundwave said:

Which systems had significant support from their console manufacturers after the release of the successor? Can you point them out? 

Developer support isn't a luxury, it's a very valuable and finite resource, Nintendo in particular does not have freebie resources where they can take care of two newborn game consoles (3DS and Wii U) that need constant early gen support and oh by the way also support the Wii too. Why not ask for continued DS support too while we're at it since the DS was far more successful than the Wii. 

I'm sure Iwata could've just pulled all the design teams for all these magical projects out of his ass. 

I see, you are trying to upgrade "support" to "significant support" now. A good indicator that you are losing the argument at hand.

The DS received first party support beyond the launch of the 3DS. You should have checked the facts before submitting your post.

Lets check your facts then. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nintendo_products#Nintendo_DS

That lists a whopping 4 Nintendo published games for the DS after February 2011 (Japanese launch of the 3DS). 

Is there missing software?  



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Soundwave said:

Lets check your facts then. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nintendo_products#Nintendo_DS

That lists a whopping 4 Nintendo published games for the DS after February 2011 (Japanese launch of the 3DS). 

Is there missing software?  

So it's a proven fact that the DS got first party games after the 3DS had already launched. It's also self-evident that the number 4 is bigger than 0. Remember, the Wii got no first party games after the Wii U had launched.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Shipments

RolStoppable said:
Soundwave said:

Lets check your facts then. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nintendo_products#Nintendo_DS

That lists a whopping 4 Nintendo published games for the DS after February 2011 (Japanese launch of the 3DS). 

Is there missing software?  

So it's a proven fact that the DS got first party games after the 3DS had already launched. It's also self-evident that the number 4 is bigger than 0. Remember, the Wii got no first party games after the Wii U had launched.

So you're basically crying over 4 games. That can be counted on one hand. LOL. 

Like Nintendo had bigger concerns at that point than making sure Rol got a token 4 games for Wii. Tough shit, but there are development realities that you're being naive to. Nintendo didn't have "spare resources" to work on token Wii projects, the 3DS and Wii U launch windows were in dire straights as it was, diverting resources to unnecessary Wii projects would've been about the dumbest thing they could have done at that point. 

Even the 4 games on DS, tiny as that is was probably a stupid idea, they needed every hand on deck for the 3DS and Wii U because they had huge issues getting enough software out for those machines quickly enough. 



Soundwave said:

So you're basically crying over 4 games. That can be counted on one hand. LOL. 

Like Nintendo had bigger concerns at that point than making sure Rol got a token 4 games for Wii. Tough shit, but there are development realities that you're being naive to. Nintendo didn't have "spare resources" to work on token Wii projects, the 3DS and Wii U launch windows were in dire straights as it was, diverting resources to unnecessary Wii projects would've been about the dumbest thing they could have done at that point. 

Even the 4 games on DS, tiny as that is was probably a stupid idea, they needed every hand on deck for the 3DS and Wii U because they had huge issues getting enough software out for those machines quickly enough. 

I said multiple times before that successful consoles still have a large userbase actively buying games late in the lifecycle, so this Wii problem is nowhere close to just being about me.

Nintendo created all the time constraints for themselves by rushing out successors in order to launch before Sony and Microsoft. No reason to pity Nintendo for their deliberate and bad decision-making. What remains is that Nintendo killed off the Wii too early.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Shipments

RolStoppable said:
Soundwave said:

So you're basically crying over 4 games. That can be counted on one hand. LOL. 

Like Nintendo had bigger concerns at that point than making sure Rol got a token 4 games for Wii. Tough shit, but there are development realities that you're being naive to. Nintendo didn't have "spare resources" to work on token Wii projects, the 3DS and Wii U launch windows were in dire straights as it was, diverting resources to unnecessary Wii projects would've been about the dumbest thing they could have done at that point. 

Even the 4 games on DS, tiny as that is was probably a stupid idea, they needed every hand on deck for the 3DS and Wii U because they had huge issues getting enough software out for those machines quickly enough. 

I said multiple times before that successful consoles still have a large userbase actively buying games late in the lifecycle, so this Wii problem is nowhere close to just being about me.

Nintendo created all the time constraints for themselves by rushing out successors in order to launch before Sony and Microsoft. No reason to pity Nintendo for their deliberate and bad decision-making. What remains is that Nintendo killed off the Wii too early.

6 years is not a "short life cycle" for any system. At worst it's above average. 

3-4 years is where one can cry about a short life cycle. 

The Wii U or Wii 2 or whatever they wanted to designate it as would've failed in 2013 or 2014 or whatever. The brand was stale and every system had the same mini-game motion games, if anything Sony's Move controller was by far the best motion controller any of the three released.

If there was any market juice there, they would've just copied whatever it was, things were never going back to the way they were pre-2010 when Wii was the only real motion gaming platform and you had no choice but to buy it to get that type of experience. 

It's not a blue ocean when every other console manufacturer is doing the same thing. It's not a blue ocean if everyone and their grandma has touch screen games on their smartphone sitting in their pocket at all times. 

I don't think delaying the 3DS and Wii U for a year would've changed anything and you can't redesign a hardware concept in a year's time either. 



Soundwave said:
Pyro as Bill said:

So Nintendo should have made an EyeToy instead of the WiiU? Makes sense.

No they did the correct thing. The reality just is that pre-2010 the Wii was unique and special but after Kinect and Move came out it really wasn't. Just like Brain Training isn't really special anymore because there's like 20 apps on your phone you can get for free that approximate the same thing. 

Kinect Sports was relatively fun and polished, so was the Sony one, you can't really say "well only Wii Sports was fun". 

I think that had an impact on Wii sales for sure. Why buy two systems if you really don't have to. 

You can't really stop other companies from copying such ideas eventually though and having their own polished product, it's simply a matter of spending money. 

So even with 20:20 hindsight, you still think WiiU was the right move. Fair enough.

Also, it isn't just Brain Training that can be done on other ecosystems. Minecraft, PUBG, CoD, Pokemon, FIFA and Fortnite are all on smartphones too.



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