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Forums - Sony Discussion - Some TLOU2 Haters Are Nut Jobs CONFIRMED!

padib said:
LivingMetal said:

No, it didn't.

Something's definitely wrong with the title, and pretty much the whole situation. The title's ambiguous by saying that "Haters are nut jobs CONFIRMED", because it reads as if anyone that dislikes the game is a hater, and all haters are crazy.

This issue with TLOU2 highlighted the following problems:

  • It is currently impossible to criticize the game without being personally attacked or called a hater.
  • It is currently impossible to worry about the bashing of the white male "patriarchal" figure without being called a bigot.
  • It is currently impossible to tell people that bigotry, on all sides, is unacceptable, and be believed, because only bigotry on one side nowadays is untolerable. In other words, if I say that I am not happy with how the patriarchy is being portrayed in movies, I automatically become a bigot, but if someone says that they are not happy with how people are negatively reacting to feminism, homosexuality and transgenderism in media, by saying that it's arguably forced and not natural to the characters and plot and alters the characters from their original form, then that's okay (Examples in Star Wars, Ghostbusters and possibly TLOU2). Double-standards are not right.
  • It is currently impossible to have a personal opinion without being attacked, or being shamed for it.
  • It is almost currently impossible to have a reasonable dialogue on the matter because people are so personally involved in all of it.

What's the solution?

  • We stop bullying each other, insulting each other, and hating each other.
  • We start listening to each other, for once.
  • We give the benefit of the doubt and allow people to explain themselves without vilifying them.
  • We understand that people are different, have different lifestyles and those need to be respected. That includes homosexuality, conservativism, religion, feminism, patriarchy, progressivism, and everything in between.
  • We start respecting that everyone has their own opinion, and unless they are intentionally trying to hurt others (on all sides!), then people have a right to their thoughts, and to express them, just like you are free to express yours.
  • We stop trying to fit everyone into our mold, as if it is the only right way to see the world.
  • We start trying to actually build a community together where we can be different from the rest, and foster dialogue.
  • We start caring for each other, our personal issues and testimonies about things that actually bothered us in the past.
  • We learn to use some discernment and read into subtleties, such as the difference between being critical of something and hating it.
  • We use logic and sensibility, in order to all become better and smarter.
  • We take a moment before we post to make sure we are in a good head-space and are fostering the right attitude.

If we don't, we will just perpetuate the cycle of hatred just like everyone else does and we all clearly don't want that.

Unless your impossible means there is going to be at least one person that don't like what you say, which would make basically anything you say impossible to not have someone that disagree, then you are wrong on it. Several people had criticized the game on the threads I created without being called names by most other participants, but sure there was one or two that would label then because of it, still that would be done for basically any thread with any opinion.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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shikamaru317 said:
KratosLives said:

Did you see the way angry joe reacted to the leaks and abby, and his mindset going into the game?? He did not give the game a fair chance. Same with skill up and their reactions to pre launch. Atleast try to act professional when going in to review a game. 

But they're not professional critics, and they have never claimed to be. There is a reason why their reviews don't show up on Metacritic. They are just gamers like you and I, who happen to do fan reviews on Youtube, not professional reviews.

Spoiler!
As fans of the first game, they were understandably pissed when it was leaked that the main character of the first game gets killed early in the 2nd game, and then you are forced to play as his killer. 

Almost everybody who read that leak was pissed about the decisions Naughty Dog made, they were no different from the rest. But just because they were initially angry at Naughty Dog after the leak, doesn't make their reviews any less valid. Having watched both reviews myself, you can tell that both played the game all the way through, so their criticism is absolutely valid. Their reviews would have been the same rather the leak happened or not, somebody isn't going to suddenly like writing that was specifically designed to be divisive, leak or no leak.  

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 08 July 2020

Ka-pi96 said:
Yeah, because you need the "right" mindset to enjoy a game. Let's re-educate people to force them to like what I like because if they don't then they're wrong!

Still if you are determined to hate something beforehand there is a good change you will succeed.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Ka-pi96 said:
Yeah, because you need the "right" mindset to enjoy a game. Let's re-educate people to force them to like what I like because if they don't then they're wrong!

So you are saying i'm wrong?. State of mind and distractions alters a game experience completely. There are different factors that can heighten and lower the experience. How you approach a game is huge factor.  What i'm saying is the game itself isn't the issue, there is a reason many love it. Those that don't and reacted like joe, is unfortunately on their own doing and the way they chose to play the game and the mindset they went in with in the first place. I loved thed first game, played it multiple times, platinumed it, so how is it  some one like myself can be proud with what the team did on the sequel? I saw no real flaws in the game, everything was done in painstakingly detail and there was a though process behind everything implemented. When all this drama settles, they will look back at this game and time, and as a gem badly misinterpreted. 



DonFerrari said:
Ka-pi96 said:
Yeah, because you need the "right" mindset to enjoy a game. Let's re-educate people to force them to like what I like because if they don't then they're wrong!

Still if you are determined to hate something beforehand there is a good change you will succeed.

Yeah, reminds me of when people jumped on death stranding " it's a walking simulator" bandwagon. 



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KratosLives said:
DonFerrari said:

Still if you are determined to hate something beforehand there is a good change you will succeed.

Yeah, reminds me of when people jumped on death stranding " it's a walking simulator" bandwagon. 

Yep, and for all it is worth I liked Death Stranding even if the mechanics were simplistic and story twisted as expected. And also of course unfortunately before 1/4 of the game I had already a very good guess of the end.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

shikamaru317 said:
DonFerrari said:

Still if you are determined to hate something beforehand there is a good change you will succeed.

Perhaps, but there is also the opposite argument. That if you went in with high expectations because the first TLOU was so good, only to find the majorly divisive writing in the sequel, people might have have hated TLOU 2 even more. The leaks may have lowered the sky-high expectations some people had for the sequel, allowing them to enjoy the sequel.

There is definitely something to be said about going into a game with low expectations instead of high expectations. I know I had majorly high expectations for RDR2, because the first RDR was tied with Witcher 3 for my best game of all-time, but perhaps because my expectations for the sequel were so high, it ended up falling far short of my expectations.

Sure you having high-expectation can lead to disapointment, also going on it wanting to like may also make you more prone to like or if you invested a lot may make you defensive of it. I was just disputing the notion that the mindset while trying something can't influence the result.

Myself I usually tend to temper my expectations. As we say here "create chickens and not expectations".



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

KratosLives said:
shikamaru317 said:

But they're not professional critics, and they have never claimed to be. There is a reason why their reviews don't show up on Metacritic. They are just gamers like you and I, who happen to do fan reviews on Youtube, not professional reviews.

Spoiler!
As fans of the first game, they were understandably pissed when it was leaked that the main character of the first game gets killed early in the 2nd game, and then you are forced to play as his killer. 

Almost everybody who read that leak was pissed about the decisions Naughty Dog made, they were no different from the rest. But just because they were initially angry at Naughty Dog after the leak, doesn't make their reviews any less valid. Having watched both reviews myself, you can tell that both played the game all the way through, so their criticism is absolutely valid. Their reviews would have been the same rather the leak happened or not, somebody isn't going to suddenly like writing that was specifically designed to be divisive, leak or no leak.  

When i said act professional, i meant be a little civilized. Mindset is the most important thing going into the game, and if you watch how angry joe was behaving and talking through out, you can tell mentally he set himself up to not like the game. He did not give the game and abby a fair chance. I know this because i was exactly like joe when i first saw the leaks. I had to shut everything from my mind prior to release, try to forget what i know and and to remind myself the kindof world this game takes place is, the brutality and what theyre accustomed to, how the last game ended, and who joel really is and the things he has done that most fans probably aren't aware. I had to prepare myself mentally for it. If i had gone in that joel is a hero and such a great man, i probably would have been devastated. But if you keep an open mind knowing death awaits joel at any time and anything can happen, then you can deal with it better and move on, and allow the story to tell itself without your mind being stuck at a certain past unable to fully process and accept what comes after. If you think about it it can be argued the first game was darker. You had joel's daughter getting shot and killed right at the start, suicide, friends who died, the main characters escaped death narrowily, canibilism, and ellie almost got  sexually assaulted (many think it was implied, through davids actions). I honestly don't know what joe expected for the sequel, and for joel. They didn't just write him off like many haters think. The past segments of ellie and joel were done to great effect, and those quirky,funny,emotional moments between them were there. It served it's purpose right till the end which made ellie's story complete. Even abby's story chapters were done well, and if you managed to accept and mourn joel's death and keep playing, you would love the game by the end of it, like many people who do. It's just a shame with joe and others, that they just couldn't come to terms with certain aspects of the game. Joe also should have played the game on his own, instead of with his budies and critiquing. 

Spoiler!

Most people do not have a problem with Joel dieing but with the deliverance,the wrongdoings of Joel in the first game had build up and made you feel for the character that did it while the fireflies were never a perfect organisation and had testsubjects before that failed to deliver a cure(Ellie was not unique), so there was a deeper connection that made his choices more meaningfull for the player,and surely after the whole father/daughter buildup.

This absolutely had almost no buildup and there are so many coincidences and out of character things happening to even get to the point of the brutality that comes too early for letting it feel justified for the story,it felt like the game wanted to cover major plotpoints without much care how to get to them.At the end it was a simple revenge story written badly,even Stephen King his worst books stand miles above what this was imo.

I do not applaud this just being shocking and daring while it comes of as uninspiring and lazy,the only positive about the writing for me personally is that while i disliked most characters by the end i finally started to feel something for Abby and i'm happy she got away cause what would be left without that? Just the terrible Ellie and nothing to return to.



Ka-pi96 said:
KratosLives said:

So you are saying i'm wrong?. State of mind and distractions alters a game experience completely. There are different factors that can heighten and lower the experience. How you approach a game is huge factor.  What i'm saying is the game itself isn't the issue, there is a reason many love it. Those that don't and reacted like joe, is unfortunately on their own doing and the way they chose to play the game and the mindset they went in with in the first place. I loved thed first game, played it multiple times, platinumed it, so how is it  some one like myself can be proud with what the team did on the sequel? I saw no real flaws in the game, everything was done in painstakingly detail and there was a though process behind everything implemented. When all this drama settles, they will look back at this game and time, and as a gem badly misinterpreted. 

You're definitely wrong.

People like different things and have different opinions. Stop putting yourself on a pedastal, your opinion isn't the "one true" opinion. If people don't like the game it's not "their fault" it's not because they played it with "the wrong mindset" they just don't like the game.

I have you to come across someone who didn't like the game and went in with an open mind knowing what kind of game this is and having pretext from the first game.  Joe's review and score is an insult to the naughtydog team and all the hard work they put it, which in my opinion is one of their biggest achievements. He did not give the game a fair assessment. 



KratosLives said:
Ka-pi96 said:
Yeah, because you need the "right" mindset to enjoy a game. Let's re-educate people to force them to like what I like because if they don't then they're wrong!

So you are saying i'm wrong?. State of mind and distractions alters a game experience completely. There are different factors that can heighten and lower the experience. How you approach a game is huge factor.  What i'm saying is the game itself isn't the issue, there is a reason many love it. Those that don't and reacted like joe, is unfortunately on their own doing and the way they chose to play the game and the mindset they went in with in the first place. I loved thed first game, played it multiple times, platinumed it, so how is it  some one like myself can be proud with what the team did on the sequel? I saw no real flaws in the game, everything was done in painstakingly detail and there was a though process behind everything implemented. When all this drama settles, they will look back at this game and time, and as a gem badly misinterpreted. 

You're wrong.

shikamaru317 said:

Almost everybody who read that leak was pissed about the decisions Naughty Dog made, they were no different from the rest. But just because they were initially angry at Naughty Dog after the leak, doesn't make their reviews any less valid. Having watched both reviews myself, you can tell that both played the game all the way through, so their criticism is absolutely valid. Their reviews would have been the same rather the leak happened or not, somebody isn't going to suddenly like writing that was specifically designed to be divisive, leak or no leak.  

Specifially designed to be divisive.

Or do you, @KratosLives, suggest NaughtyDog/Neil Druckmann didn't know what it will lead up to? You're saying they were completely oblivious to the reactions that were bound to happen?



Hunting Season is done...