True that, and its exactly why the Series X's May event got so much crap. Everything they showed was targeting 4k/60fps and it didn't leave much room for improving overall fidelity compared to current gen. 

I think you are exaggerating. As long as they look better then the best of the best this gen then it’s a upgrade. Not like we gonna get 360 levels of graphics to hit those benchmarks. Like I said of Gears 5 looks like one of the best games this gen at 60fps then I am hopeful. 

You missed Astro's Playroom wink wink.

I think it have more to do with the dev competency than the target resolution.

I'm sure it will be an upgrade, no doubts about that. What I am saying is when comparing both PS5 and XSX. If MS games are 4k60fps the overall graphical will be inferior on looks compared to a 1440p (upscalled with temporal reconstruction) and 30fps because XSX is only 10-20% stronger, so it can't really have twice the pixels, twice the framerate and still have more effects and other elements.

I used to think the resolution was the most important aspect, but after several CGI threads I saw other important aspects for IQ and seem cases where it is good to sacrifice resolution to get better IQ. No doubt that for multiplats if both system devs choose same pixel count and framerate XSX have the potential to look better. But on exclusives, and that is were Sony have been showing better graphics since PS3, if they go for lower framerate and pixel count they will have better looking games. Will that be noticeable enough for most people? Not sure. Will it be more important than 60fps? For some yes, for others nope. But for my taste it probably aligns better and for yours Xbox will have it better.

I wonder if those banging on about native 4K 60 fps having to be the standard, also only watch movies and tv shows on 4K blu-ray with high end frame interpolation. Streaming 4K is worse than 1440p checkerboarded, so must be unwatchable.

I stuck with blu-ray, simply don't see the benefits of 4K from the couch. Blu-ray does look significantly better than 1080p streaming, often on par with 4K streaming yet as long as you don't pause the movie and walk up to the screen to count the pixels, I don't notice.

60fps vs 30fps, another 'waste' for many titles. Stability and low input lag is more important than actual frame count. But for some genres, shooters, racing, VR, 60 fps is definitely better. Flight simulator and Age of Empires 4 could be 20 fps for all I care.

Anyway I wonder what happens when Lockhart becomes the majority console. The pro versions didn't catch on this gen, so chances are the cheaper console will become the dominant one and will also become the one to develop for, leaving the XSX with options to run the same game in quality mode native 4K, or performance mode 60fps or 120fps. Which is what a lot of people seem to want anyway, but in the end games will be made for a 4tf console and 7.5GB ram.

Don: I agree with everything you said. Just that we’ve been taking about hitting the fabled 4K/60 for several years. I mean industry leaders as well as hopeful gamers. Now we on the cusp of it and it looks like MS is the only one actually trying to hit it and others are seemingly backing away from it.

It strikes me as odd to say the least given how both factions cared so much about pushing both in the past

You're essentially halving performance when targeting 60fps. The games that are going all out on visuals will go 30FPS. And that will be the majority of major devs. Thinking you'll see the majority next games at 60fps is frankly quite optimistic and I dare say naive. With raytracing you can forget 4K 60. Not even RTX 2080 Ti can handle that on current gen games. Just look at Cyberpunk 2077, that demo was running on a high end PC with RT @1080P.

I would bet big money that the next GTA will be 4k 30. Its by design and up for developers, unless you just want an evolutionary jump from last generation. With more pixels and effects.

Thats the thing. I dont care about buzz or what anyone else thinks about either presentation. For me, I wasnt impressed with the ps5 presentation and Microsoft can "do better" pretty easily to appeal TO ME. At the end of the day, that is all that matters to each individual person.

Never cared for 60fps. But you are right. We even had one Sony figure head saying "give me 60fps or give me death", I think he is still alive even with Sony not putting many 60fps games at all =p

And sure I think it would be fine to allow gamers three toggles (at least), resolution, framerate, effects. So people can choose what is the best option for them. And with Series S on the way it is quite possible that we get it, just hope that the stronger consoles don't get the same low effort that they got gen 8.

Who ever said 4k/60fps is the holy grail of gaming? I remember playing games like Far Cry 3 in 4k back in 2012 on a GTX970. It's not like 4k and 60fps is something completely new. It's just that it's hard to do with more demanding games.

I have to say things are a bit confusing now that Lockhart seems to really be a 4Tflops next gen console. If that is the case, developers could target it as the base console and all of those 12Tflops can be used for little more than just a boost in resolution and framerate. I just pray to the gaming gods that isn't the case and that Lockhart will be more like the ps5 digital only console. 

You really can’t chime in with “I’m a pc gamer” when this was clearly something console gamers and console industry leaders were predicting to come with great excitement. 

I’m not gonna have this endless debate with you on the second paragraph. You firmly stuck in your beliefs so we gotta see the proof when it comes. We all know Lockhart will sacrifice specs for price so you can pray to your gods for something else you can thank me later :)