Forums - Gaming Discussion - Console-WAR becomes Religion oO Meta in big criticism, needs new rules!

Chazore said:

I wouldn't even boycott TLOU2, I just think it's another movie based game, with bad writing, and I've noticed Hiku avoided saying that for some reason, and some others on different sites as well. 

Because I had only played 3-4 hours of the game. How many hours have you played?

Why do you want me to pass judgement on the writing when I've barely started the game? That seems to be what a number of people are doing, considering the insane amount of user reviews that poured in 1 minute after the game launched. 
I've said before that I expect not to like this game. But I'm not in a hurry to make premature statements.

Last edited by Hiku - on 20 June 2020

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Hiku said:

Because I had only played 3-4 hours of the game. How many hours have you played?

Should I pass judgement on the writing when I've barely started the game? That seems to be what a number of people are doing, considering the insane amount of user reviews that poured in 1 minute after the game launched. 
I've said before that I expect not to like this game. But I'm not in a hurry to make premature statements.

I'm talking in general of bad writing, that many others, who have already played the game, have pointed out.

I don't ened to see a movie, that's been critically panned and cited for "the writing was bad", to know it has bad writing, it does exist. Yes I've also watched movies with bad writing before, but ignored for various reasons, but I can accept that said film/comic/song/game can be badly written.

That one scene in particular, that's circling around the net for example, screams bad writing, if not borderline cringe inducing. Couldn't really care less if it's my opinion, but I know there are far better ways and mediums out there, that have doe better than that scene, and there wasn't any good reason why said directors/devs, couldn't make it as amazing as other films have done said scene before, no excuse. There's a reason why that scene is being meme'd and laughed at.



               

kazuyamishima said:
Statements like“the scores are coming from fans that are displaced with the game” are far from the whole True when the minute the user score went live the review bombing started for a game that is 25-30 hours or more longer.

Around 6-7 hours into it, I can say that it’s improved in most ways compared to the original, hence there’s no explanation why people are just giving it 0/10 and 1/10 with only using the same words as “forced agenda” or “ND destroyed my childhood”

I was one of the many not happy about the leaks, but once you play it you can clearly see that ND put a lot of effort on it.
There are many crappy games that don’t have user scores so low as this game.

But at the end, user scores, troll or not, are just opinions.


The ones I find funny are they state the game is beautiful and the game play is great but they don't like the story and give it a 0/10 maybe they should just say why in my case I would give what I played a 9/10,my dislikes are not the diversity or the characters sexual mores, it is the heavy handed nature of how they handled it, so it comes across as we will adapt the game to our world view now there's nothing wrong with just causes and reflecting society's diversity but there are better ways to accomplish that while bringing the public along with you of cause you won't please everyone but if done right  shouldn't make it controversial  an example is The Last of Us where Bill was gay but it was used in a natural manner where Bill the person was the focus.



Does this kind of review bombing happen with every Sony release? I really don't recall it being so (correct me if I'm wrong), but if the reviews were because of Nintendo/Microsoft fans, you'd expect them to do it on all major Sony releases.

From my experience as a Nintendo fan, review bombing generally happens when the Nintendo fanbase is for some reason unhappy about something. Pokemon with the reduced national dex, or animal crossing due to its save file stuff. Don't know why we'd assume the negative reviews are from fans of other platforms. Scrolling through the first page of user reviews, nobody mentions Nintendo or Microsoft, but plenty mention the first game and how the franchise was "ruined".



Chazore said:
Hiku said:

Because I had only played 3-4 hours of the game. How many hours have you played?

Should I pass judgement on the writing when I've barely started the game? That seems to be what a number of people are doing, considering the insane amount of user reviews that poured in 1 minute after the game launched. 
I've said before that I expect not to like this game. But I'm not in a hurry to make premature statements.

I'm talking in general of bad writing, that many others, who have already played the game, have pointed out.

Ah, the 'in general' of bad writing that people who have already played the game have pointed out.
My mistake. Next time I won't judge a story after I experience it, but rather after reading opinions devoid of any context.

Also, you said that 'for some reason' I didn't have the same opinion as you on the story I had barely just started.
I'll be sure to express the same opinion as you next time.

I wasn't trying to share my thoughts on the writing in that post, but I have in a previous post where I said that "I don't have a lot of faith in the writing now, but I'll see where it goes."
I'll remove the last part about seeing where it goes, and just post what you think instead.

Last edited by Hiku - on 20 June 2020

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ClassicGamingWizzz said:
sales2099 said:

Why do you think it’s mostly Xbox gamers? If you read them and not cherry pick, they are complaining about the story and Neil Druckman in general. An Xbox gamer has no reason to crap on Neil Druckman. 

You blind, drunk or smoked too Much of that good stuff?

First i didnt even talked about Xbox gamers second do you think i give three shits to bother to read What some loser that didnt even played the game as too say in their 0/10 "review"?

Well it seemed to have been implied. If you didn’t mean that then nm. Alone there is no reason to take a 0/10 seriously. That said if there’s a lot it can say there is something beneath the surface that official reviewers aren’t addressing. To that end I’d say it’s true. It’s not just trolling people are legit not happy. 



 

 

JWeinCom said:
Does this kind of review bombing happen with every Sony release? I really don't recall it being so (correct me if I'm wrong), but if the reviews were because of Nintendo/Microsoft fans, you'd expect them to do it on all major Sony releases.

From my experience as a Nintendo fan, review bombing generally happens when the Nintendo fanbase is for some reason unhappy about something. Pokemon with the reduced national dex, or animal crossing due to its save file stuff. Don't know why we'd assume the negative reviews are from fans of other platforms. Scrolling through the first page of user reviews, nobody mentions Nintendo or Microsoft, but plenty mention the first game and how the franchise was "ruined".

Yeah, the bombing is definitely not because of console war fanboyism. If you look at the user reviews for other big Sony exclusives from this gen, they were usually only barely below the critic scores, and a few games even had higher user scores than critic scores:

  • God of War- 94 critic/91 user
  • Horizon: Zero Dawn- 89 critic/84 user
  • Spider-Man: 87 critic/86 user
  • Days Gone- 71 critic/81 user
  • Until Dawn- 79 critic/83 user
  • Death Stranding- 82 critic/72 user
  • Uncharted 4- 93 critic/85 user
  • Uncharted: Lost Legacy- 84 critic/79 user
  • The Order: 1886- 63 critic/67 user
  • Dreams- 89 critic/88 user
  • Gran Turismo Sport- 75 critic/60 user
  • Driveclub- 71 critic/63 user
  • Infamous: Second Son- 80 critic/80 user
  • Infamous: First Light- 73 critic/74 user
  • Killzone: Shadowfall- 73 critic/68 user
  • The Last Guardian- 82 critic/79 user

The largest gap between critic and user out of the above games is 15 points on GT Sport. By comparison TLOU 2 is sitting at 95 critic/36 user, a gap of 59 points between critic and user. That is a huge discrepancy. That is an even bigger gap than we saw on Star Wars The Last Jedi a few years ago, which got an 81 average from critics and a 54 average from users on Rotten Tomatoes.

Alot of these low user reviews for TLOU 2 are clearly from actual fans of the first game disappointed by the story direction in the sequel. I've read several detailed and well written low user reviews that clearly were from people who actually played the game based on the things they were saying. Their scores might not be all that fair, because the game is clearly not so bad that it deserves all of the 0 and 1 reviews, but they are so displeased that they want to make their voices heard by Sony and Naughty Dog, and giving it a fairer user score of like a 6 or 7 is far less noticeable to Sony/ND than a 0 or 1. 

Others are from people mad about the political agenda of the game, or about other things like Sony having HD, mo-capped, nude sex scenes in the game yet censoring Japanese games. A few are probably from Xbox, PC, or Nintendo fanboys, but very few most likely.

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 20 June 2020

Kyuu said:
I think the story stinks and the feelings are justified. "us vs them" is a minor-ish factor this time. Neil Drukmann (a self-described "character torturer" who also views diversity as a "pillar" of equal importance to gameplay, visuals, and story) cheaply evoked the wrong kind of emotions from the player, and it backfired big time. Many of us just can't fully appreciate the amazing aspects of the game coz we're carrying those feelings of anger, disappointment, sadness etc as we play through it. I for one started feeling numb and somewhat nauseous just 2 or 3 hours in, and it only got worse from there on. It's especially bad for those who saw the leaks and later the major plot points and ending.

Yeah, I'm thinking this in particular is a widespread issue. Because I was feeling the same way as you described.

It's hard to appreciate fun and good moments when something disturbing is constantly lingering in your mind. You no longer pay attention to or notice things you normally would, because part of your mind is constantly processing something else. Because your emotions keep reminding you.

And while I find that some people seem to have missed the point of certain things, or at least don't mention them, that's not necessarily their fault if they did.
I think Naughty Dog's goal was to unsettle the players while still maintaining their interest and enthusiasm. But I think they may have commonly failed on the last part because of how over the top they went.



Religions are typically about establishing rituals and morality codes of conduct. I don't think outrage culture applies. Religions aren't any more about console wars than nations or cities are about console wars.

hinch said:

Salty fanboys and outrage culture. Its pathetic.

This is pretty much it. They take some trivial elements and launch a revolution... in the metacritic comment user review section.

As we know, it's a major issue. Animal Crossing New Horizons flopped because of these little Outraged Spartacuses.

Last edited by Jumpin - on 20 June 2020

I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

its the sequel to the last of us, anyone going for user scores is a fool