Forums - Sony Discussion - (SPOILER ALERT) Free discussion of TLOU2 with story included

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How do you rate TLOU2 story

1 8 15.69%
 
2 1 1.96%
 
3 5 9.80%
 
4 3 5.88%
 
5 5 9.80%
 
6 6 11.76%
 
7 3 5.88%
 
8 4 7.84%
 
9 6 11.76%
 
10 10 19.61%
 
Total:51

Finished the game, and seem like 21.3% of the people who purchased it also did, so about 1M people have seem the end. I can say I'm very satisified with it.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

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Ok from where I am right now, pacing feels a bit slow. I just finished the Ellie part where she finds Glenn, and the Joel flashback in the lodge.
Yaknow, I've heard a lot of criticisms, but man, there are some really transcendent moments. The whole dinosaur museum flashback gave me chills, the analogy was so delicately done. And the way they made Joel act so out of place in the lodge flashback, building tension for the firefly reveal.
Really a shame that some can't enjoy these amazing moments, bc so far, there are moments in this game that far surpass anything in TLOU.
Hope it keeps up.

Edit: Also just to be fair, I have extreme OCD when it comes to looting and found the pacing and enjoyment way better when I stopped trying to find every little scrap of paper or material

Last edited by theprof00 - on 27 June 2020

Spoiler!
I finished the game, and liked the story. They were doing to Abby what Game of Thrones did to Jamie Lannister through seasons 1-5. She started out as a villain, and slowly, but surely you were made to like her. The two highpoints of the game were when Abby discovered her dead friends in the aquarium, and the theater fight. We as the players already knew that Ellie had killed everyone in the aquarium. We already knew that Abby was coming back to find all her friends dead. That made the suspense and anticipation all that greater. I loved the theater fight! Both these characters had good reasons at this point to kill the other. Playing as Abby I didn't know what to do, because I was like, "I can't kill Ellie! She's the main character!". I wasn't sure whether the game would have Abby kill Ellie and end there or not. Then there was the fact that Ellie was such a badass in this fight. You try  throwing bottles or bricks at her, and she just dodges them, and blasts you in the gut. You try listening for her and she's deadly quiet.

Ellie sparing Abby at the end made sense, because Lev was there, and because Abby had already spared Ellie twice. Not to mention that Abby didn't even want to fight in the first place. Abby knew full well that what she did to Ellie (by killing Joel in front of her) was a horrible thing to do. Abby is the sort of character that makes stupid decisions and then later comes to regret them or even hate herself for those choices. Just look at how she got together with her ex, despite knowing full well that her friend and her ex were having a kid together.

Abby couldn't kill Ellie, because she knew full well that she was Ellie's Joel (Abby was Ellie's villain, just like how Joel was Abby's villian). Abby was the person that killed Ellie's adoptive father one, just like how Joel killed Abby's father.

I can't believe the number of people that want to rate this game a 1/10 based solely on them not liking the story. Gameplay, Graphics, Sound, Controls, and Length all play a part in how good a game is. I mean, I could see reasonable people rating this a 7/10 or 6/10 because they really hated the story. But even then that's stretching it.



The sentence below is false. 
The sentence above is true. 

 

Cerebralbore101 said:
Spoiler!
I finished the game, and liked the story. They were doing to Abby what Game of Thrones did to Jamie Lannister through seasons 1-5. She started out as a villain, and slowly, but surely you were made to like her. The two highpoints of the game were when Abby discovered her dead friends in the aquarium, and the theater fight. We as the players already knew that Ellie had killed everyone in the aquarium. We already knew that Abby was coming back to find all her friends dead. That made the suspense and anticipation all that greater. I loved the theater fight! Both these characters had good reasons at this point to kill the other. Playing as Abby I didn't know what to do, because I was like, "I can't kill Ellie! She's the main character!". I wasn't sure whether the game would have Abby kill Ellie and end there or not. Then there was the fact that Ellie was such a badass in this fight. You try  throwing bottles or bricks at her, and she just dodges them, and blasts you in the gut. You try listening for her and she's deadly quiet.

Ellie sparing Abby at the end made sense, because Lev was there, and because Abby had already spared Ellie twice. Not to mention that Abby didn't even want to fight in the first place. Abby knew full well that what she did to Ellie (by killing Joel in front of her) was a horrible thing to do. Abby is the sort of character that makes stupid decisions and then later comes to regret them or even hate herself for those choices. Just look at how she got together with her ex, despite knowing full well that her friend and her ex were having a kid together.

Abby couldn't kill Ellie, because she knew full well that she was Ellie's Joel (Abby was Ellie's villain, just like how Joel was Abby's villian). Abby was the person that killed Ellie's adoptive father one, just like how Joel killed Abby's father.

I can't believe the number of people that want to rate this game a 1/10 based solely on them not liking the story. Gameplay, Graphics, Sound, Controls, and Length all play a part in how good a game is. I mean, I could see reasonable people rating this a 7/10 or 6/10 because they really hated the story. But even then that's stretching it.

I don't think it's stretching it, everyone is different, I'd rate the story a 6, the game an 8 and overall I'd say a solid 7 but with asterisk stating that it ruins established characters. 5 is mediocre on my scale, 6 is decent, 7 is solid/good, 8 is great, 9 is stellar & addictive, 10 is when the stars align and make a game that is all a 9 is but also has very little problems and is finely crafted. This is not a 10, it's not a 9 either and at times I want to drop the story to less than a 5, a 4 maybe (poor) but somehow it manages to stil rise above it despite all the problems and writibg issues, somehow ot manages to be decent enough with the shear magnitude of production, VA and the brutality of it among other things. There are times I wanted to drip the gamepkay to a 5 like this... 

... yeah, it gets even worse than that at times like whole monster boxes just desending on you and you can run left and right or in a circle and regain stealth to takr them out or just pop them if you feel like wasting ammo or even worse, have them all come at you and beat them with a melee weapon, they drop a melee weapon and you pick it up to kill the next guy who drops a melee weapon and so on. I was playing on hard with companions on survivor and materials on moderate and the majority of my deaths were one hit kills, a boss, a stupid just scare where enemies are attached to walls and grab you or taking an arrow in the open. Still, the game despite all it's issues manages to push past all that and rise to being great, I can't explain how so besides it being so well crafted, the level design being great at times and the core gameplay and feel being, well, great

Idk, a 7 for me and I wouldn't even question someone with a 5 or a 4 because I can see why. I don't question peoples 8s or 9s either but 10's, nah, there are glaring issues you can't ignore and I can't believe anyone would rate this a 10, as long as they aren't a kid, a teen or a massive casual who cosumes very little media. You'd have to ignore so many problems, your rating of 10 becomes a joke like the 1s, 2s and 3's. 

Last edited by John2290 - on 27 June 2020

 

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Wman1996 said:

I just finished the story. Now I understand why people are mad. But I can't fathom how people would give this game (story or overall) a 1 or 2 out of 10. It has enough redeeming factors to get AT LEAST get a 3 or 4 out of 10. I'd give the game as a whole a 6/10, and the story a 4/10.
I will say that I have not too many problems with the gameplay. It's just as great, or better than the first. So on to the story, which is why this thread is here.
The story sequencing is all wrong.

Spoiler!
You play roughly a 1/3 of the game as Abby, and most of that is all in a row. It's an insult to have the cover just show Ellie. It's false advertising. It should have her and Abby on the cover. At least the releases of the first game showed both Joel and Ellie. I understand you played as Joel for at least 2/3 of the game (or more) but Ellie was a huge part too.
The first game wasn't particularly long (12-18 hours roughly depending on difficulty and the player's skill). This game is about 20-30 hours. I would've rather just had virtually all of Abby's story cut and fixed the ending. I think that would fix some things.
I don't despise Abby or find her very compelling. She just makes me feel numb, which is what the story as a whole did. I don't see many of the character choices or ideas political, despite this game being labeled as such. 

Just stupid people would do it. Makes no sense except vent your frustration. A game is comprised of several different things, story being one of them. Of course since this is a story driven game it has a bigger weight when calculating a score, but less than a 5 for this game considering everything makes no sense at all.

This is why it would be interesting to have on metacritic some kind of "weighted" score, excluding those scores that are just trolling.

Anyway even if you do it it seems we would not get to a user score of 94. 

I believe PSN and Amazon would more more trustworthy scores.



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theprof00 said:
iron_megalith said:

Suspension of disbelief does not apply in this scenario. There are boundaries to that. When your characters act so out of place, that is not an excuse that you can use. That's outright bullshit.

My problem with your argument is that you're simply exerting your opinion as the final word.

It's odd how people can defend Joel becoming morally ambiguous after going through apocalypse, but can't allow a hint of understanding that he also may have softened. Even if he is the exact same Joel from 4 years prior, we never have evidence of Joel being difficult to convince. Despite everyone's referencing of Henry and Sam, it literally took 1 minute for Joel to vet Henry, a person who ambushed them. Ellie offers to join up, Joel rebuts, and then Henry says "we have a hideout, we can rest up there"......and Joel says "alright, take us there".

Or consider this, Joel grew this town from 20 to 400 in 4 years. That means over 300 strangers and wanderers and survivors. Given Joel's standing in the community, it's not hard to imagine that he brought a major chunk of those people in from the wilderness. Sure he may have vetted them all in some super cautious way, but like I said, we have no evidence of that. On top of which, even the size of the town and the love and respect overly displayed towards Joel would serve as positive reinforcement to a "gather and grow" mentality, so perhaps in 4 years his priorities have changed.

But all of this is irrelevant in the long run, I could list myriad reasons. I never even considered Joel to have made some mistake because like I said earlier, these people wouldn't even have killed him before learning his name. I've even beaten TLOU a dozen times, and played it on stream twice the week before part 2 came out. To me, nothing felt out of place about him going to Abby's hideout.

I feel that all you really wanted in the story was a definitive reason as to how he would end up in that situation, but even if the writers came out and gave you the explanation and background or put it in the game as DLC, would you even be able to accept it? 

It just reeks of "We need to kill Joel, how do we do that? Hey, maybe someone that he killed in the first game has a relative who comes to take revenge? Yeah, let's do that." And it's not even that really, but they were in a real hurry to erase Joel so early in the game and in the most aggressive and disrespectful way possible. Why not have Joel die while saving Abby? It would still suck for us Joel fans, but even that would have been much better, with elements of irony and redemption right there. But no, just bash, revenge, done, now care about the basher, please. Of course then we wouldn't have the whole motivation for Ellie to seek retribution and in the end get her satisfaction.. which was never fulfilled either. Pointless. Dumb.



EnricoPallazzo said:
Wman1996 said:

I just finished the story. Now I understand why people are mad. But I can't fathom how people would give this game (story or overall) a 1 or 2 out of 10. It has enough redeeming factors to get AT LEAST get a 3 or 4 out of 10. I'd give the game as a whole a 6/10, and the story a 4/10.
I will say that I have not too many problems with the gameplay. It's just as great, or better than the first. So on to the story, which is why this thread is here.
The story sequencing is all wrong.

Spoiler!
You play roughly a 1/3 of the game as Abby, and most of that is all in a row. It's an insult to have the cover just show Ellie. It's false advertising. It should have her and Abby on the cover. At least the releases of the first game showed both Joel and Ellie. I understand you played as Joel for at least 2/3 of the game (or more) but Ellie was a huge part too.
The first game wasn't particularly long (12-18 hours roughly depending on difficulty and the player's skill). This game is about 20-30 hours. I would've rather just had virtually all of Abby's story cut and fixed the ending. I think that would fix some things.
I don't despise Abby or find her very compelling. She just makes me feel numb, which is what the story as a whole did. I don't see many of the character choices or ideas political, despite this game being labeled as such. 

Just stupid people would do it. Makes no sense except vent your frustration. A game is comprised of several different things, story being one of them. Of course since this is a story driven game it has a bigger weight when calculating a score, but less than a 5 for this game considering everything makes no sense at all.

This is why it would be interesting to have on metacritic some kind of "weighted" score, excluding those scores that are just trolling.

Anyway even if you do it it seems we would not get to a user score of 94. 

I believe PSN and Amazon would more more trustworthy scores.

They have 5 star ratings for a reason, it gives tge impression of better scores. I was forced to give the game 3 out of 5 stars on but in reality my score is 7 out of 10. Which looks better on paper? The 3 out of 5 stars  oddly enough, which is a 6 out of 10. 



 

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hinch said:

Anyone else think the story should have ended at the farm? That would have been a better ending imo to finish the game on. The epilogue felt long and drawn out by that time.

Not a big complaint though.. since we got more game time, and this will be the last ND game we're gonna get for years :P

Are we considering the Santa Barbara entirely as epilogue? It kinda make sense, Ellie couldn`t release herself from the bad feelings so it needed a little more on the story before she was able to.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

theprof00 said:
iron_megalith said:

Suspension of disbelief does not apply in this scenario. There are boundaries to that. When your characters act so out of place, that is not an excuse that you can use. That's outright bullshit.

My problem with your argument is that you're simply exerting your opinion as the final word.

It's odd how people can defend Joel becoming morally ambiguous after going through apocalypse, but can't allow a hint of understanding that he also may have softened. Even if he is the exact same Joel from 4 years prior, we never have evidence of Joel being difficult to convince. Despite everyone's referencing of Henry and Sam, it literally took 1 minute for Joel to vet Henry, a person who ambushed them. Ellie offers to join up, Joel rebuts, and then Henry says "we have a hideout, we can rest up there"......and Joel says "alright, take us there".

Or consider this, Joel grew this town from 20 to 400 in 4 years. That means over 300 strangers and wanderers and survivors. Given Joel's standing in the community, it's not hard to imagine that he brought a major chunk of those people in from the wilderness. Sure he may have vetted them all in some super cautious way, but like I said, we have no evidence of that. On top of which, even the size of the town and the love and respect overly displayed towards Joel would serve as positive reinforcement to a "gather and grow" mentality, so perhaps in 4 years his priorities have changed.

But all of this is irrelevant in the long run, I could list myriad reasons. I never even considered Joel to have made some mistake because like I said earlier, these people wouldn't even have killed him before learning his name. I've even beaten TLOU a dozen times, and played it on stream twice the week before part 2 came out. To me, nothing felt out of place about him going to Abby's hideout.

I feel that all you really wanted in the story was a definitive reason as to how he would end up in that situation, but even if the writers came out and gave you the explanation and background or put it in the game as DLC, would you even be able to accept it? 

Joel was a bit careless and Abby was cunning to wait until safe and them lash out, but it was totally believable that it would happen.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

I gave it a 9.

While the game is amazing with great gameplay, amazing visuals and an amazing story, I find the pacing and sequencing a bit off. I feel like if they introduced Abby from the beginning and included scenes of her discovering her dad's body while Joel was telling the story to Tommy it would have been much better as it would show us the consequences of Joel's actions and how his death was an immediate result of his act of love/selfishness. Then interchanged Ellie's journey of revenge with Abby's journey of healing and the aftermath of her own revenge. That would have been much more complex to do given that ND was trying to show the blindness of revenge with Ellie's plot and the emotional tournament that comes with it with Abby's. All said and done I believe ND was off with their sequencing choices and did a disservice to both characters by not pacing the story properly. But still it was a great story nonetheless.