I was going to reply with my arguments but to be honest I think this discussion leads nowhere. If people think tlou2 is not a woke game and the story is good and it is a 10 game, its ok there is nothing wrong with it. praise democracy. Some people think different and that is also ok, at least for now.

Why would anyone think she's a trans when you also see her in her younger years without the muscles? There was a whole scene where Abby bailed on Owen because training was more important to her than spending time with him. Its why their relationship never worked out.

Man if you can't keep civil without dishing out accusations, say you don't care about the thread and don't name who you are talking to I would ask you to stop posting in the thread since you are going against all that was asked on the OP. You are doing much worse than the people you are accusing. Dunno if you have a personal stake being either a minority or loving ones are, but you are taking it to personal.

Maybe Abby betters themself, becomes important/famous, but get's cancelled because their past comes to light?

We have seem male, female, white, black, asian, straight, gay, cis and trans doing acts of good and bad, acting like heroes and villains so I have no Idea why someone would think they decided that only white males could be villains... and in UC and TLOU1 that also would be the case, ND have not decided to make all heroes or villains in the same format.

Why in the world do you feel the need to constantly berate me for being too cynical or not giving people the benefit of the doubt? I spent the last 30 years giving people the benefit of the doubt in most cases, and when it comes to shitty, bigoted, ignorant, backwater bullshit arguments about progress and tolerance I'm always shown to be naive about it. When it comes to issues of representation in the media, equality, and social progress, I've learned that 90% of the time people are just closet bigots trying to justify their beliefs by any means necessary. 

The funny thing is that I grew up in Canada, where even conservative Christian types were weirdly okay with gay/trans/bi people. I grew up in a community where they were very similar to American republicans without any of the bigotry. It wasn't until the internet happened to me and I met Americans that I realized that...holy shit prejudice is still a thing and its hiding in plain view. Bigotry like this - where people will bend over backwards to justify their own narratives just so they can be offended by inclusion - is the worst kind because it's masquerading as reason when it's got nothing of the sort fuelling it. 

I'm so vigilant against 'subtle bigotry' because I'm sick of terrible people getting away with racism, sexism, homophobia, and xenophobia by hiding behind whatever the excuse du jour is. "Oh, we're just keeping bloodlines pure" has turned to "I just don't want pandering media companies pushing propaganda". What used to be "We just want to keep the races separate" has become "We don't want them making our kids gay". 

I'm not going to pretend that this subtle, low-key bigotry isn't real becuase it makes you uncomfortable or because you don't personally have to deal with it or were too sheltered to see that it's a very real issue that needs to be addressed and complacency is NOT the way to fix it. 

I am a white male with blonde hair and blue eyes, Straight (ish) for most of my life. I am not a minority in any way (or wasn't until I came to terms with a whole lot of gender/sexuality confusion over the past few years.) This isn't personal to me, I'm just sick and tired of people getting away with low-key bigotry becuase they're not screaming 'burn the fags' or other cultural slurs that I'm not going to repeat. 

bigotry is bigotry, regardless of whether or not it has a fancy coat on. 

This thread? IT's a whole lot of intolerance masquerading as pretty much everything else. 

There's a world of difference between the toxicity that is bigotry and intolerance, and the supposed 'toxicity' that is reacting negatively to bigots and those who are intolerant. If you honestly equate "I hate fags" to "I hate homophobes" (in a roundabout way, not saying you directly said this), then the problem certainly isn't me. 

Because I do hate homophobes. The difference is that I'm not trying to hide it under a veneer of faux-sincerity and gussied-up language. I do hate racists and I'm right to do so. 

I know this is invoking Godwin's law and all that, but you'd punch a nazi or two, why not punch a neo-nazi? Some people are bad and don't deserve respect. If you hate someone because they're gay, or think representation in the media is ethically wrong, or think someone is superior or inferior because of the colour of their skin or the nation from whence they came, then yeah! I can get behind that. Hating someone for their actions and decisions and shitty views is a whole world of difference away from hating someone for something they cannot control. 

If you kick a dog, I'm going to be rightfully angry. 

IF you support people who kick dogs, I'll be rightfully angry. 

Right now, you're arguing that I'm as bad as someone who kicks a dog because I Said 'hey, you're a shitty person for kicking a dog'

That is the level of discourse there is in the world. There is a difference between right and wrong. Ethical and unethical. I'm not nice, but I'm right. Anyone who has seen progress throughout history knows that, in time, tolerance is getting better and more widespread and that anyone holding onto bullshit like 'the game's SJW propaganda becuase there's a trans person in it and that's bad' are wrong. They are wrong, they need to learn they're wrong, and they need to realize how much they're holding progress back by pushing their backwards agendas and resisting positive change. 

They also need to be called out on their subtle bullshit when they try to justify their shitty beliefs with rhetoric that sounds reasonable on the surface but is damaging overall. Which is what I'm doing. 

This right here is the crux of why you are wrong and your arguments are bad. Nobody's judging people for being straight, white, or male. I have a problem with people who are being prejudiced. 

I'm straight, white, and male (Well, again, that's complicated but for the sake of the argument we'll go with that). I do not have a problem with straight people, white people, or male people. Like 95% of my social circle are one of those three things. The issue isn't that THEY are those things, the issue is that they seem offended that others are gay, lesbian, female, or coloured. The issue is that it seems to be predominantly straight, white males who are so vocal about how terrible ND is for putting a lesbian and a trans person in their game. 

Nobody (with any reason in them) has a problem with people being straight, white, or male. The issues come from anyone trying to belittle the progress of anyone NOT Straight, white, or male and limit their inclusion for whatever bullshit reason they're peddling. 

THAT is why your arguments are so bad. They completely miss the point and misrepresent what the actual conflict here, is. It's either idiocy or a logical fallacy (Strawman); either way, it's a bad take that is grossly disingenuous and maddeningly unhelpful.

The complains you have about TLOU2 even though I disagree are from how the story was aligned and the ending nothing to do with the characters themselves, their external characteristics or their sexuality.