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Forums - Sony Discussion - Grade the PS5 Conference

 

What's your score?

10 28 12.56%
 
9 56 25.11%
 
8 52 23.32%
 
7 30 13.45%
 
6 24 10.76%
 
5 16 7.17%
 
4 6 2.69%
 
3 6 2.69%
 
2 1 0.45%
 
1 4 1.79%
 
Total:223
DonFerrari on 25 June 2020

Why the discussion over ND and their alleged agenda on the grade PS5 conference, on which ND didn't even had a game present?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Around the Network
DonFerrari on 27 June 2020
twintail said:
TheMisterManGuy said:

What I'm saying is, I'm always weary of people who go on and on about how "Diverse" their cast of characters are, because to me, more often than not, that signals that these characters have literally nothing else going for them besides their race or gender. It more of a marketing buzzword at that point. Human beings are much more complex than their chromosomes or skin color. I don't care if your character is black, gay, Asian whatever. Just focus on delivering a good narrative first. 

It's also annoying when people who rightfully call out bad writing or directing, get called bigots by the people behind the work. Showing that they're just using "Diversity" as a shield to deflect criticism, which is very unfair IMO.

Studios need to realise that ppl only care about the inner aspect of the character and not their outer looks? What?

They care about characters, not race or gender. For example, Nobody likes Black Widow in the Avengers films solely because she's a female superhero. People like Black Widow because she's an interesting and fun Superhero who happens to be female. The point is, "Diversity" had never really been a problem in entertainment in for a while. Writers and Directors were able to look past race or gender and just tell good stories with good characters, who just so happen to be Female or a particular race.

To me this sounds like an ALM vs BLM argument (the former completely missing the point of the latter).  Saying that ppl don't care about the appearance of the character (which is factually incorrect considering how popular create-a-character options are) only goes to undermine the push for better representation of people and culture, as if a black female character means nothing unless she has perfect writing to suit her. Because changing the character to a white male is now ok? 

I didn't say they don't care about appearance. What I'm saying is most people don't get so caught up over whether their race or gender is "represented" or not. People just want well written and appealing characters at the end of the day. If you want to write about a black protagonist, or female protagonist, that's fine. But make them compelling human beings first before anything else. 

Like, you can't argue that the appearance doesn't matter, then we ought to just have invisible people as main characters. If white male characters can be represented with good and bad writing, why shouldn't other race/ gender combinations not be seen as viable for the same thing?

Nobody's saying they aren't viable. But what I'm saying is that make the characters whatever race or gender you want, but make sure you give people well written characters first before anything else. 

1) I'm going to need some examples of 'diversity' being marketing more than anything else.

2) BW is one of the more pointless characters from the Avengers. A lot of her appeal happens to be her actress, a good looking white woman.

3) Unfortunately, I'm going to have to disagree on that. 'If you want to write about a black protagonist, or female protagonist, that's fine. But make them compelling human beings first before anything else.'.

So if they aren't written as compelling human beings, just automatically make them a white guy? Because, white guy protagonists don't need to be written well, just use them for all cases whereas female and ppl of colour characters must pass a special checklist to ensure they are viable to be main characters.

yeah... ok. 

DonFerrari said:
Why the discussion over ND and their alleged agenda on the grade PS5 conference, on which ND didn't even had a game present?

When they show off Factions MP in August it is going to be glorious Don. Just glorious!!!!

Nahhh I don't like MP games, so yes it will have a lot of hype but it won't ring me a bell.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

TheMisterManGuy on 27 June 2020
twintail said:

1) I'm going to need some examples of 'diversity' being marketing more than anything else.

The biggest one is the Disney Star Wars Trilogy, The Last Jedi especially. Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson banged on and on about how diverse their new films were, yet the Disney trilogy has some of the most one-dimensional main characters in the entire series. And when fans were criticizing The Last Jedi, staff at Lucasfilm and the media attacked them calling them bigots and racists for not blindly accepting the garbage writing. Showing that "Diversity" in this case, is nothing more than a smoke screen to cover up poor writing. Again, Diversity on its own isn't bad, but once you spend more time braging about Diversity instead of writing a good narrative, then people are going to call you out on it. 

2) BW is one of the more pointless characters from the Avengers. A lot of her appeal happens to be her actress, a good looking white woman.

Okay, then how about Ripley from the Aliens franchise, often hailed as one of the best written characters in all of cinema. Point is, there's plenty of examples of good female protagonists in the past. Nobody had a problem with it before. This is why when I see people complain about the lack of "Diversity" in games or entertainment, I just roll my eyes because to me, they're complaining about an issue that never actually existed, at least not in recent times. 

3) Unfortunately, I'm going to have to disagree on that. 'If you want to write about a black protagonist, or female protagonist, that's fine. But make them compelling human beings first before anything else.'.

So if they aren't written as compelling human beings, just automatically make them a white guy? Because, white guy protagonists don't need to be written well, just use them for all cases whereas female and ppl of colour characters must pass a special checklist to ensure they are viable to be main characters.

yeah... ok. 

What I'm saying is that human beings should judge each other based on content of character, not on their gender or color of skin. The same argument applies to white male characters as well. White or not, if your protagonist is bland and uninteresting, then why the hell are we following him? Bring in somebody who has a personality. 

My point is that, creators should not get so worked up about whether their character is the right race or not. Just write characters first, then pick whatever race or gender you feel like making them. I don't care if its black, white or whatever. Give me protagonists I can be engaged with. 

Last edited by TheMisterManGuy - on 27 June 2020

TheMisterManGuy on 28 June 2020
twintail said:

Calling out diversity just because of poor writing seems in bad faith to me tbh. Poor writing is poor writing. The cast could have all been white and it would have still been poor writing. The diversity angle literally means nothing when the critique is the lack of better writing ability, unless you have some kind of agenda against diversity in the first place. Framing the argument that a company like Disney were proud to promote diversity, but failed to make good characters out of them, can only be done in bad faith, in my opinion.

I agree with this. Even if all the characters were white and male, TLJ would still be panned by fans for its disrespect of the original trilogy.

If diversity was not highlighted, does the argument become only poor writing? Then why does it not just remain that way even with the promotion of diversity?

The problem is that the people behind new Star Wars and the media are only using "diversity" as a cover-up to disguise the films' poor quality. Attacking anybody who doesn't like The Last Jedi or Rey as misogynists' or racists. In reality, they made a bad film and are too high on their own ego to see what fans are complaining about. 

If Disney had promoted an all white cast, does the argument remain the same as you are claiming about the promotion of a diverse cast (in this case a lack thereof)? 

Yes. Like I said, replace the main characters with White Males, and you still get the same crappy, haphazard storytelling and asspull writing. It'd be the same shit, different skin. 

The fundamental criticism in all 3 scenarios is the bad writing; the promotion of the cast diversity, or lack of, is completely inconsequential, unless you have an agenda.

Correct. Nobody has a problem with a diverse cast. The problem is when the people in charge start overpromoting that fact to compensate for a lack of quality, then attack everyone who dislikes the film for being supposed bigots'. It's a thought policing tactic. "You WILL love this movie, or else you are a horrible person!" It's condescending, and that's what annoys people. Don't try and shame me into liking a crappy film just because it has "Strong independent women" in it. I don't care if it has straight white males either, if I don't like it, I don't like it, plain and simple. 

If this was really about diversity, then the people making these films would focus on the quality of the work, and cast people who just happen to be minorities. Even if the film doesn't end up being great, nobody would have a problem if these directors, writers, or producers didn't get preachy about their diversity, and start attacking fans who dare to offer a different opinion.

2nd, the core tenet of arguing for diversity is not that diversity doesn't exist period, but rather that there is a large inequality in terms of representation. Cinema and TV have been around longer than video games, and claiming that equal diversity exists in the gaming sphere would would likely wrong. In the last 20 narrative games I've played, 14 were white male protagonists. Have yours been more equally diverse?

I certainly understand the basic premise of the argument. Different races exist, so why not write about them? I do agree with the idea on that core fundamental. I've said it before, but people should be allowed to write about whoever they want. That said, I don't believe wanting to see more minority races, should come at the expense of others. Real Diversity, is when all types of people have equal opportunity. There's nothing wrong with Straight white male protagonists, and there's nothing wrong with gay protagonists either. 

The thing I can't stand with the diversity argument, is when people claim that being straight, white, and male is somehow a problem today, when its not. Just like how Female Protagonists have never been a problem before, straight white male protagonists have never been a problem, and never will be a problem. Just because you want to see more black protagonists in games, that doesn't mean you have to tear down white male characters to make it happen. Just make a good video game that happens to have a black protagonist. 

Finally, if your argument is that all game characters should be well written, then why have you been proposing that female characters and people of color should only be the main character if they are well written? 

That's not really what I'm saying. What I'm talking about is, don't brag about how diverse your characters are if you can't back it up with a quality product. There are poorly written black or female characters in entertainment, and nobody would have a big problem with that normally. But if you start saying that we can't criticize the writing for these characters solely because they're of a different race or gender, than naturally people are going to call you out on that.

It goes back to what I said, People don't want to be essentially blackmailed into liking something. We're tired of being called racists and sexists because we rightfully criticize crappy writing. 

All characters should be written well. 

Agreed, and I wouldn't normally be upset if black or female characters in a game or story were bland or uninteresting. I'd be disappointed, but not mad. What I'm trying to say is that, don't call me sexist just because I don't enjoy your poor writing choices. Diversity isn't a problem, studios calling us Nazis if we don't like their games is. 



DonFerrari on 28 June 2020
TheMisterManGuy said:
twintail said:

Calling out diversity just because of poor writing seems in bad faith to me tbh. Poor writing is poor writing. The cast could have all been white and it would have still been poor writing. The diversity angle literally means nothing when the critique is the lack of better writing ability, unless you have some kind of agenda against diversity in the first place. Framing the argument that a company like Disney were proud to promote diversity, but failed to make good characters out of them, can only be done in bad faith, in my opinion.

I agree with this. Even if all the characters were white and male, TLJ would still be panned by fans for its disrespect of the original trilogy.

If diversity was not highlighted, does the argument become only poor writing? Then why does it not just remain that way even with the promotion of diversity?

The problem is that the people behind new Star Wars and the media are only using "diversity" as a cover-up to disguise the films' poor quality. Attacking anybody who doesn't like The Last Jedi or Rey as misogynists' or racists. In reality, they made a bad film and are too high on their own ego to see what fans are complaining about. 

If Disney had promoted an all white cast, does the argument remain the same as you are claiming about the promotion of a diverse cast (in this case a lack thereof)? 

Yes. Like I said, replace the main characters with White Males, and you still get the same crappy, haphazard storytelling and asspull writing. It'd be the same shit, different skin. 

The fundamental criticism in all 3 scenarios is the bad writing; the promotion of the cast diversity, or lack of, is completely inconsequential, unless you have an agenda.

Correct. Nobody has a problem with a diverse cast. The problem is when the people in charge start overpromoting that fact to compensate for a lack of quality, then attack everyone who dislikes the film for being supposed bigots'. It's a thought policing tactic. "You WILL love this movie, or else you are a horrible person!" It's condescending, and that's what annoys people. Don't try and shame me into liking a crappy film just because it has "Strong independent women" in it. I don't care if it has straight white males either, if I don't like it, I don't like it, plain and simple. 

If this was really about diversity, then the people making these films would focus on the quality of the work, and cast people who just happen to be minorities. Even if the film doesn't end up being great, nobody would have a problem if these directors, writers, or producers didn't get preachy about their diversity, and start attacking fans who dare to offer a different opinion.

2nd, the core tenet of arguing for diversity is not that diversity doesn't exist period, but rather that there is a large inequality in terms of representation. Cinema and TV have been around longer than video games, and claiming that equal diversity exists in the gaming sphere would would likely wrong. In the last 20 narrative games I've played, 14 were white male protagonists. Have yours been more equally diverse?

I certainly understand the basic premise of the argument. Different races exist, so why not write about them? I do agree with the idea on that core fundamental. I've said it before, but people should be allowed to write about whoever they want. That said, I don't believe wanting to see more minority races, should come at the expense of others. Real Diversity, is when all types of people have equal opportunity. There's nothing wrong with Straight white male protagonists, and there's nothing wrong with gay protagonists either. 

The thing I can't stand with the diversity argument, is when people claim that being straight, white, and male is somehow a problem today, when its not. Just like how Female Protagonists have never been a problem before, straight white male protagonists have never been a problem, and never will be a problem. Just because you want to see more black protagonists in games, that doesn't mean you have to tear down white male characters to make it happen. Just make a good video game that happens to have a black protagonist. 

Finally, if your argument is that all game characters should be well written, then why have you been proposing that female characters and people of color should only be the main character if they are well written? 

That's not really what I'm saying. What I'm talking about is, don't brag about how diverse your characters are if you can't back it up with a quality product. There are poorly written black or female characters in entertainment, and nobody would have a big problem with that normally. But if you start saying that we can't criticize the writing for these characters solely because they're of a different race or gender, than naturally people are going to call you out on that.

It goes back to what I said, People don't want to be essentially blackmailed into liking something. We're tired of being called racists and sexists because we rightfully criticize crappy writing. 

All characters should be written well. 

Agreed, and I wouldn't normally be upset if black or female characters in a game or story were bland or uninteresting. I'd be disappointed, but not mad. What I'm trying to say is that, don't call me sexist just because I don't enjoy your poor writing choices. Diversity isn't a problem, studios calling us Nazis if we don't like their games is. 

We have been able to dash and criticize white male in any media with big freedom, but when it is considered minority then criticizing is shunned. That sums what you said.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Around the Network
Runa216 on 28 June 2020

All I'll say here is wow; so many people are putting SO much effort to twist things around to push their agendas. IT's funny how transparent some of you are.



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

Zoombael on 29 June 2020
Runa216 said:
All I'll say here is wow; so many people are putting SO much effort to twist things around to push their agendas. IT's funny how transparent some of you are.

I'm not transparent though. My skin color is dark. Go ahead then, ask me if i feel included. Surrounded by caucasian looking male and female heroes. Do it, ask a negro fella if he feels included when a collage of the stereotypical white game protagonist can be done the same with the stereotypical white female protagonist. Ask if that darky you're calling a bigot feels more included than ever before, after this big diversity switch has gone from male caucasian to female caucasian, when on top of differing skin color gender is added.

Diversity has this ring of "all inclusivness" to it. But who exactly is this diversity trend ment for? For all of us diverse people, right? Right?! Not just for all of those many many women gamers who are as vigoroursly active as their masculine pendants. Not here on this board. Or at a big german games website. Or another non gaming related forum. Well, i'm sure they must be somewhere... i guess...

But i digress. Go on, ask the question, white boy. I dare you.



Hunting Season is done...

Runa216 on 29 June 2020
Zoombael said:
Runa216 said:
All I'll say here is wow; so many people are putting SO much effort to twist things around to push their agendas. IT's funny how transparent some of you are.

I'm not transparent though. My skin color is dark. Go ahead then, ask me if i feel included. Surrounded by caucasian looking male and female heroes. Do it, ask a negro fella if he feels included when a collage of the stereotypical white game protagonist can be done the same with the stereotypical white female protagonist. Ask if that darky you're calling a bigot feels more included than ever before, after this big diversity switch has gone from male caucasian to female caucasian, when on top of differing skin color gender is added.

Diversity has this ring of "all inclusivness" to it. But who exactly is this diversity trend ment for? For all of us diverse people, right? Right?! Not just for all of those many many women gamers who are as vigoroursly active as their masculine pendants. Not here on this board. Or at a big german games website. Or another non gaming related forum. Well, i'm sure they must be somewhere... i guess...

But i digress. Go on, ask the question, white boy. I dare you.

Do you feel included? Do you feel that inclusion needs to only represent you or not you or only females or only males? Do you honestly think one game or franchise is going to solve everything? Some games will have gay protagonists, some black, some straight, some female, etc. 

I genuinely don't know what agenda you're trying to push, but you can't bitch and complain about inclusion initiatives just becuase they don't represent you specifically. (at least that's the impression I get from your post; feel free to correct me if I'm misreading it.) I'm not a woman, a lesbian, or trans, but I can still celebrate the inclusion of lesbian or trans women protagonists or characters. I'm not black or asian or middle-eastern, but I can praise that inclusion. I don't need to be specifically represented or included to feel good about games that don't just cater to straight white males. The Last of Us Part II is a step forward, a symbolic showing that you can have female protagonists and lesbian/trans characters in a game. Don't expect the issue to be resolved and everyone to be satisfied by one game. 

So yeah, if you're in the mood to pull that shit, I do dare to ask you. Do you feel included? Do you? And if you don't, is that such a bad thing? 

At least tell me what your goal is here so I can reply accordingly. 



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

Zoombael on 06 July 2020
Runa216 said:
Zoombael said:

I'm not transparent though. My skin color is dark. Go ahead then, ask me if i feel included. Surrounded by caucasian looking male and female heroes. Do it, ask a negro fella if he feels included when a collage of the stereotypical white game protagonist can be done the same with the stereotypical white female protagonist. Ask if that darky you're calling a bigot feels more included than ever before, after this big diversity switch has gone from male caucasian to female caucasian, when on top of differing skin color gender is added.

Diversity has this ring of "all inclusivness" to it. But who exactly is this diversity trend ment for? For all of us diverse people, right? Right?! Not just for all of those many many women gamers who are as vigoroursly active as their masculine pendants. Not here on this board. Or at a big german games website. Or another non gaming related forum. Well, i'm sure they must be somewhere... i guess...

But i digress. Go on, ask the question, white boy. I dare you.

Do you feel included? Do you feel that inclusion needs to only represent you or not you or only females or only males? Do you honestly think one game or franchise is going to solve everything? Some games will have gay protagonists, some black, some straight, some female, etc. 

I genuinely don't know what agenda you're trying to push, but you can't bitch and complain about inclusion initiatives just becuase they don't represent you specifically. (at least that's the impression I get from your post; feel free to correct me if I'm misreading it.) I'm not a woman, a lesbian, or trans, but I can still celebrate the inclusion of lesbian or trans women protagonists or characters. I'm not black or asian or middle-eastern, but I can praise that inclusion. I don't need to be specifically represented or included to feel good about games that don't just cater to straight white males. The Last of Us Part II is a step forward, a symbolic showing that you can have female protagonists and lesbian/trans characters in a game. Don't expect the issue to be resolved and everyone to be satisfied by one game. 

So yeah, if you're in the mood to pull that shit, I do dare to ask you. Do you feel included? Do you? And if you don't, is that such a bad thing? 

At least tell me what your goal is here so I can reply accordingly. 

Usually, i don't see the point in dragging out these kind of debates. But, let's have a go at this one.

First of all...

Don't expect the issue to be resolved and everyone to be satisfied by one game. 

What the hell are you talking? The thread title is "Grade the PS5 Conference". One game? All the games!

Do you feel included? Do you feel that inclusion needs to only represent you or not you or only females or only males? Do you honestly think one game or franchise is going to solve everything? Some games will have gay protagonists, some black, some straight, some female, etc. 

I grew up in a pre-dominantely white neighbourhood. For the longest time i was the only dark skinned human in the entire suburb. A satisfying answer? Maybe. It's a weird thing to ask if i feel "inclusion needs to only represent...". It doesn't make any sense. Until recently i didn't feel the need for my skin color to be represented more adequately. But while we're at it, why not? It is called D-I-V-E-R-S-I-T-Y. Not feminisation of videogames. Hypothetically speaking, why do i have to justify when i wish for more black protagonists in video games?! Yes, there is Miles Morales, the black spider dude. Not getting his own main game, it's not SpiderMan2, but hey, it's something, right? And there have been games with black PCs in the past, like Shadowman (PS1), a game i still own, Blade (PS2), Prophet (Crysis franchise), GTA San Andreas. From the top of my head. So why should i complain? Well, some games had female protagonists, homo- and even transsexuality prior to the "era of diversity". So why should anyone see the need to complain? What is this talk of more diversity in videogames? According to you it was fine the way it was before. No need to push anyone or anything.

Let's have a look at my collection of PS4 games, starting with...

the last of us/left behind (white male/white female)

god of war (white male/black voice)

days gone (white male)

RDR2 (white male)

Graviy Rush 1/2 (female, blonde hair, white skin)

RE2R (white male/white female)

Witcher3 (white male)

Horizon Zero Dawn (white female)

Hitman 2 (white male)

Alien Isolation (white female)

Nioh (white male)

Deus Ex:Mankind Divided (white male)

Detroit Become Human (white male/white female)

SpiderMan (white male)

Doom (white male)

Uncharted 4 (white male)

Ratchet&Clank (male Lombax/Robot)

Yakuza Zero (asian male)

"Diversity"? 

One of the games i certainly going to buy next is Resident Evil 3 Remake (white female). I played the original back in the day (white female). Played Resident Evil Code Veronica on Dreamcast (white female). Going through my PS1/PS2 games... Parasite Eve (white female), Dino Crisis (white female), Fear Effect (white female), Syberia (white female), not to be confused with Cyberia (white male), Tenchu (asian male/female)...

"Druckmann: When I’m introducing and describing a new character to our lead character concept artist, constantly she will ask, “What if it was a girl?” And I’m like, Oh, I didn’t think about that. Let me think, does that affect or change anything? No? Cool, that’s different. Yeah, let’s do it."

https://kotaku.com/uncharted-4-director-says-they-had-to-ask-one-sexist-fo-1778198178

I wonder... what would Druckmanns reaction be to the suggestion of the next Naughty Dog game having a black african man as main. Curious, how it is constantly gender switching, but ethnicity/race is off the table. Maybe if a colored person is placed somewhere in Druckmanns vicinity he'll get something to think about.

Am not complaining, just to emphasize how ridiculous this all looks from my perspective.

To take it a step further. My predections:

You will be reading the title and think "not this again".

You will be watching the video and asking "what has this got to do with anything?"

Everything.

I genuinely don't know what agenda you're trying to push, but you can't bitch and complain about inclusion initiatives just becuase they don't represent you specifically.

I'm not pushing anything. I am exposing the hypocrisy you're defending. Just because?! You're saying diversity and inclusion isn't really all inclusive and specific areas are reserved for a specific group of people. Not all people...

I don't need to be specifically represented or included to feel good about games that don't just cater to straight white males.

If you don't need it and i'm not supposed to need it, why should anyone feel the need to be specifically represented and who decides whos voice is worth hearing? Btw. thank you to decide for me how i should feel. How generous of you. How subtle. What color is your skin again? Maybe someone should need the feel to check his privileges.

The Last of Us Part II is a step forward, a symbolic showing that you can have female protagonists and lesbian/trans characters in a game.

Uh-hu. You're seriously pretending there weren't female protagonists, homosexual and transsexual characters in video games before? Of course...

https://www.advocate.com/arts-entertainment/2018/2/02/25-lgbt-video-game-characters



Hunting Season is done...

Runa216 on 06 July 2020

I get the distinct impression that Zombael has no idea what side of the issue I stand on. All I know is I responded poorly to his response to me which he misattributed to I presume me being on the wrong side of the argument.

Zombael, man, I don't know what your agenda is based on your response to me in the first place, but ask literally anyone on this forum who has had any interactions on this matter and I think they'll tell you I'm 100% pro inclusion and diversity. I just assumed if you were arguing with me you were on the opposite side of that argument...which was super weird since you say you're a black man. That's why I said 'I don't know what your agenda is here'. and your response to that was an 'i dare you', so I dared. not because I had anything of value to say in that direction, but because you dared me. Like I said, 100% on the other side of the conflict that you think I am.

So, to clarify, what IS your stance on this matter so I can know if you're being a troll or sincere?



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android