Grade the PS5 Conference

[DonFerrari]

TheMisterManGuy said:

twintail said:

Calling out diversity just because of poor writing seems in bad faith to me tbh. Poor writing is poor writing. The cast could have all been white and it would have still been poor writing. The diversity angle literally means nothing when the critique is the lack of better writing ability, unless you have some kind of agenda against diversity in the first place. Framing the argument that a company like Disney were proud to promote diversity, but failed to make good characters out of them, can only be done in bad faith, in my opinion.

I agree with this. Even if all the characters were white and male, TLJ would still be panned by fans for its disrespect of the original trilogy.

If diversity was not highlighted, does the argument become only poor writing? Then why does it not just remain that way even with the promotion of diversity?

The problem is that the people behind new Star Wars and the media are only using "diversity" as a cover-up to disguise the films' poor quality. Attacking anybody who doesn't like The Last Jedi or Rey as misogynists' or racists. In reality, they made a bad film and are too high on their own ego to see what fans are complaining about. 

If Disney had promoted an all white cast, does the argument remain the same as you are claiming about the promotion of a diverse cast (in this case a lack thereof)? 

Yes. Like I said, replace the main characters with White Males, and you still get the same crappy, haphazard storytelling and asspull writing. It'd be the same shit, different skin. 

The fundamental criticism in all 3 scenarios is the bad writing; the promotion of the cast diversity, or lack of, is completely inconsequential, unless you have an agenda.

Correct. Nobody has a problem with a diverse cast. The problem is when the people in charge start overpromoting that fact to compensate for a lack of quality, then attack everyone who dislikes the film for being supposed bigots'. It's a thought policing tactic. "You WILL love this movie, or else you are a horrible person!" It's condescending, and that's what annoys people. Don't try and shame me into liking a crappy film just because it has "Strong independent women" in it. I don't care if it has straight white males either, if I don't like it, I don't like it, plain and simple. 

If this was really about diversity, then the people making these films would focus on the quality of the work, and cast people who just happen to be minorities. Even if the film doesn't end up being great, nobody would have a problem if these directors, writers, or producers didn't get preachy about their diversity, and start attacking fans who dare to offer a different opinion.

2nd, the core tenet of arguing for diversity is not that diversity doesn't exist period, but rather that there is a large inequality in terms of representation. Cinema and TV have been around longer than video games, and claiming that equal diversity exists in the gaming sphere would would likely wrong. In the last 20 narrative games I've played, 14 were white male protagonists. Have yours been more equally diverse?

I certainly understand the basic premise of the argument. Different races exist, so why not write about them? I do agree with the idea on that core fundamental. I've said it before, but people should be allowed to write about whoever they want. That said, I don't believe wanting to see more minority races, should come at the expense of others. Real Diversity, is when all types of people have equal opportunity. There's nothing wrong with Straight white male protagonists, and there's nothing wrong with gay protagonists either. 

The thing I can't stand with the diversity argument, is when people claim that being straight, white, and male is somehow a problem today, when its not. Just like how Female Protagonists have never been a problem before, straight white male protagonists have never been a problem, and never will be a problem. Just because you want to see more black protagonists in games, that doesn't mean you have to tear down white male characters to make it happen. Just make a good video game that happens to have a black protagonist. 

Finally, if your argument is that all game characters should be well written, then why have you been proposing that female characters and people of color should only be the main character if they are well written? 

That's not really what I'm saying. What I'm talking about is, don't brag about how diverse your characters are if you can't back it up with a quality product. There are poorly written black or female characters in entertainment, and nobody would have a big problem with that normally. But if you start saying that we can't criticize the writing for these characters solely because they're of a different race or gender, than naturally people are going to call you out on that.

It goes back to what I said, People don't want to be essentially blackmailed into liking something. We're tired of being called racists and sexists because we rightfully criticize crappy writing. 

All characters should be written well. 

Agreed, and I wouldn't normally be upset if black or female characters in a game or story were bland or uninteresting. I'd be disappointed, but not mad. What I'm trying to say is that, don't call me sexist just because I don't enjoy your poor writing choices. Diversity isn't a problem, studios calling us Nazis if we don't like their games is. 

We have been able to dash and criticize white male in any media with big freedom, but when it is considered minority then criticizing is shunned. That sums what you said.