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Forums - Politics Discussion - Official Protest Thread

SvennoJ said:
JWeinCom said:

Actually Meghan McCain has not been in New York City for several weeks.

Ah, never heard of her. Anyway fake news, hyperbole, same as always. But saying things are 'fine' atm in the USA is a bit of stretch.
Twitter is a blight on society, however at least videos still have some credibility even though it's easy to place them out of context or even stage them. Plenty look pretty real though :(

Her dad was John McCain, who ran for President twice, the first time in the Republican primaries against George W. Bush, the second time as the Republican nominee in 2008 against Obama.  He was my Senator, and the instant he started going against the Republican Party he was accused by Republicans of being everything from a RINO (Republican In Name Only) to being a traitor and an informant for the North Vietnamese when he was a POW. 



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SanAndreasX said:
SvennoJ said:

Ah, never heard of her. Anyway fake news, hyperbole, same as always. But saying things are 'fine' atm in the USA is a bit of stretch.
Twitter is a blight on society, however at least videos still have some credibility even though it's easy to place them out of context or even stage them. Plenty look pretty real though :(

Her dad was John McCain, who ran for President twice, the first time in the Republican primaries against George W. Bush, the second time as the Republican nominee in 2008 against Obama.  He was my Senator, and the instant he started going against the Republican Party he was accused by Republicans of being everything from a RINO (Republican In Name Only) to being a traitor and an informant for the North Vietnamese when he was a POW. 

Pretty much the same thing that is happening to Romney right now... it’s sad that people get so riled up when people stand up for what they believe is right.  The political parties are not always right, people should be able to differ from the party if they feel it is right.  It shouldn’t be a hive mind...



sethnintendo said:
SanAndreasX said:

Or else they were the bullies.

Edit: Sorry, posted this before I saw that someone else had posted it.

Ive seen plenty of dorky cops though in my life here in USA so I used to think they became cops to take out their built up anger on society. 

What we do have problem here is we've been through so many wars recently a lot of these cops are former military.  They act like they are still on the battlefield and civilians are the enemies.  Plus the cops keep getting more militarized gear pretty damn soon it will be hard to tell the difference.

A lot of that started with the LAPD, who were the first police force to develop SWAT teams. This was in response to the Watts riots in the 1960s and the Symbionese Liberation Army siege in 1974. The SLA had fully automatic weapons while the LAPD had semi-automatics, and the siege ended pretty much the same way the Waco siege ended, with a tear gas grenade igniting and burning everybody to death. Then Reagan started pouring money into the police as part of the War on Drugs. Daryl Gates resigned as LAPD chief of police after the 1992 riots. After 9/11, they were mobilized for the War on Terror. It seems like American culture likes to turn everything into a war.



gergroy said:
SanAndreasX said:

Her dad was John McCain, who ran for President twice, the first time in the Republican primaries against George W. Bush, the second time as the Republican nominee in 2008 against Obama.  He was my Senator, and the instant he started going against the Republican Party he was accused by Republicans of being everything from a RINO (Republican In Name Only) to being a traitor and an informant for the North Vietnamese when he was a POW. 

Pretty much the same thing that is happening to Romney right now... it’s sad that people get so riled up when people stand up for what they believe is right.  The political parties are not always right, people should be able to differ from the party if they feel it is right.  It shouldn’t be a hive mind...

They barely tolerated Romney in 2012, in part because he is a Mormon and there is a lot of anti-Mormon prejudice in the US, including amongst Evangelicals who say that Mormons aren't really Christians. But he was the nominee, and the people they did want were unpalatable candidates like Michele Bachman and Newt Gingrich. In the end, they only cared to get even a nominal Republican in office. As Grover Norquist, a tax activist, put it, "All we need is a hand with five working fingers that can hold a pen to sign the [Paul] Ryan budget." Paul Ryan was the Republican Golden Boy at the time, which is why he ended up being Romney's running mate. It sure was funny to see his political career completely implode a few years later once Trump came into the picture. Him and Sarah Palin.

Last edited by SanAndreasX - on 05 June 2020

I protest against this thread!



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SanAndreasX said:

The House of Representatives could theoretically impeach the President as many times as they want, but it doesn't matter when there is no way the Senate will vote to convict. And the Senate has a position called Senate Majority Leader, which is defined entirely in Senate rules and not by the Constitution as the Speaker of the House is, and the Senate has chosen to give him virtually limitless power, which includes single-handedly grinding the entire Senate to a halt by refusing to bring legislation to the floor, refusing to hold hearings for Supreme Court Justices, and possibly even refusing to even hold an impeachment trial. The current leader, Mitch McConnell (R-KY) is honestly one of the biggest problems in government right now. A lot of issues effecting the entire country are being held hostage by a man who is only voted on by the residents of one state with a small population and an even smaller economic footprint.

I think a conversation that's definitely worth having is whether the Senate should have greatly reduced power or if it should even exist anymore. It's rare for the upper house of a bicameral legislature to have that much power, and honestly, the Senate has long been a graveyard for meaningful reforms.

I would go into more detail, but I don't want to go too far off topic. Perhaps the U.S. Politics thread would be better suited.

SanAndreasX said:

The problem is that when a large portion of armed citizens support a tyrannical government, they effectively turn into a paramilitary force for the government. But the armed militias sure showed up in force when they couldn't get their hair cut. 


They've always been selective like that. It's like they talk a big game about supporting the Constitution, but do they really? Perhaps most pertinent to the current crisis is this:

"No person shall be … deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law" — Fifth Amendment

"…nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." — Fourteenth Amendment

What part of this do some cops not understand? Did they not swear an oath to uphold the law, including the Highest Law of the Land? There have been too many cases of cops doing what amounts to little more than an extrajudicial execution, depriving Americans of their lives without due process. Police training and police culture helps foster this grotesque malfeasance and disregard for the lives and liberty of the citizenry. The entire reason any these protests or riots are even an issue today is because the police are guilty of this heinous dereliction of their duty to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America. And it's a problem that's existed for many decades. There has long been something fundamentally broken in what passes as a "justice" system in this country.

Yet a lot of people, mainly on the right, are fine with this. They're absolutely fine with this authoritarian police state business so long as the ones being hurt or inconvenienced by it are "those people." In other words, people that don't look or think like them. That's exactly why they can scream until they're blue in the face about the quarantine, even if that temporary and minor reduction in liberty did come about through due process and for perfectly legitimate reasons (i.e., preventing the spread of a deadly and highly contagious disease), and then turn around and demand blind obedience to the authorities. Because it was never about freedom or liberty as a concept. As far as they're concerned, it's about their freedom and liberty alone, and everyone else can go get fucked. It's also the same mindset that lets them rail against bans on incandescent light bulbs as a most perfidious tyranny, yet see no problem with the government locking up gay people for being gay (seriously, go back and look at the outrage over the Lawrence v. Texas decision in 2003), or controlling women's uteri. It's the same mindset that lets them see no problem in right-wing protestors hanging Obama in effigy and carrying blatantly racist placards, or screaming in police officers' faces and intimidating elected officials because they can't get a haircut, yet find it permissible to go into an apoplectic rage over and demand punishment for kneeling football players.

And there is most definitely a racial aspect to it. Here in the South, there's still a lot of people alive who were around during the Jim Crow era, and that culture of white supremacy was ingrained into many. And those racist white Boomers and Silents passed those attitudes on to their children and grandchildren. There are people my age and younger (I'm 40, meaning I was born 16 years after the passage of the Civil Rights Act) that venerate the Confederate States and have no problems referring to minorities by using racial slurs. Hell, just look at all the young white men that showed up to "Unite the Right" and other alt-right/white nationalist rallies. Crushing the Confederacy, ending slavery, and passing the 14th & 15th Amendments didn't end racism. Passing the Civil Rights Act didn't end racism. And here we are 50 years after the end of Jim Crow and the same bullshit just keeps happening.

Racism is like a cancer, and even if it's gone into remission it can always come back. But racism is learned behavior. It can be unlearned, and we can make it hard to be effectively taught in the first place. I grew up in a conservative, Baptist, Republican household in South Carolina. My father's side of the family in particular had a lot of highly racist attitudes. But my mother always told me to not be an asshole towards people for things they can't help (unfortunately, in her later years she developed a nasty anti-immigrant attitude). So I don't judge people by the color of their skin, or their gender, or their sexual orientation, or any other characteristic they can't help. I judge them by the content of their character, by the actions that they do have control over. And I have seen more than my fair share of people who are ugly to the core, who are simply incapable of caring about the lives of others, who operate on a Social Darwinist "Dog-eat-dog/I've got mine, Jack/You're on your own/Every man is an island" worldview that also tolerates all sorts of bigotry towards others deemed not part of their in-group. It's the mentality that has resulted in many Americas, especially they're not straight white men, being abused, maimed, and killed by their own government in plain violation of the Constitution and simple human decency.

People need to make their voices heard, in the streets, in the media, and at the ballot box. This year has been an absolutely shitty parade of ceaseless misery largely because of the failures of our so-called leaders. Let's hope it ends on a better note.



Cutting the budget for the police is the dumbest thing you can do, guess whose training becomes even shorter



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kirby007 said:
Cutting the budget for the police is the dumbest thing you can do, guess whose training becomes even shorter

Depends on how the budget is cut. If the budget cuts limit the militarization of the police, I support that, but I do believe that police should have more training and be paid more (to attract more people, allowing departments to be more selective).



sethnintendo said:
vivster said:

I bet that more of them were the bullies.

I suppose you are probably right.  The shoving down old people and attacking reporters is ridiculous.  Also the shooting of people in head with rubber bullets and bean bags is fucked up. 

Here is how you don't do crowd control.  They could disperse the crowd with water cannons and that would probably be less harmful.

Water cannons are deadly weapons as well and easily abused
https://www.economist.com/asia/2016/10/01/death-by-water-cannon
https://www.military.com/video/law-enforcement/police/turkish-police-water-cannon-kills-man/2424004746001



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