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Forums - Politics Discussion - Official Protest Thread

sethnintendo said:
Cops have a right to defend themselves and respond in force if they are being assaulted. They are being assaulted with bricks thrown and other weapons in some instances. They can respond with force against those people.

However, they shouldn't respond in force to people that are just standing there peacefully protesting.

If someone is throwing bricks at an officer, the officer has the right to use the minimum force necessary to eliminate that threat.

That does not mean that if someone in a crowd throws a brick, the police have the right to punch everyone in that crowd.

It also does not mean that if someone throws a brick, the police get to beat that person up.

Note: This is just to be clear, not an implication that you said anything counter to this.



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KiigelHeart said:
SvennoJ said:

Ever heard of "duty to rescue, failure to render aid"? You stay at an accident scene doing what you can until professional help arrived. Not only were they at fault for shoving the old man, walking away and lying about it are two more counts against them. These people should not be on the street dealing with the public.

I have, doesn't have much to do with this situation. They have an emergency squad for it and it arrives quickly. One of them stays there. Others need to carry on whatever task they had. No point touching someone with potentially serious injury and trauma if more qualified and equipped units are available.

I agree the two men shoving shouldn't continue to operate after the incident. Very likely too much going on inside their heads. 

Which is it... Too much going on inside their heads, step out, not qualified to continue. All they managed to do is to escalate the situation further, demonstrated by how this video went viral not only for the shove and resulting injury, also because they stepped around the guy (next guy telling them to move on) leaving him on the ground bleeding out of his ear.



sundin13 said:
sethnintendo said:
Cops have a right to defend themselves and respond in force if they are being assaulted. They are being assaulted with bricks thrown and other weapons in some instances. They can respond with force against those people.

However, they shouldn't respond in force to people that are just standing there peacefully protesting.

If someone is throwing bricks at an officer, the officer has the right to use the minimum force necessary to eliminate that threat.

That does not mean that if someone in a crowd throws a brick, the police have the right to punch everyone in that crowd.

It also does not mean that if someone throws a brick, the police get to beat that person up.

Note: This is just to be clear, not an implication that you said anything counter to this.

Agreed with everything you said.  The entire crowd is assumed guilty sometimes when most of them are peaceful.   Instead of focusing solely on the criminals they lump everyone together sometimes.   No excuse either to be hitting people in head with rubber bullets and bean bags.  They can be potentially deadly just getting hit in stomach and aiming for head is uncalled for. 

I believe European cops are better trained at handling these situations than cops here in USA.  I watched a few seasons of British show Caught on Camera and they seem to be able to arrest criminals a lot better than cops here.  Sure they have their incidents (far fewer than over here probably) but I was generally impressed on how they conduct themselves compared to cops here.  Perhaps England should send a few trainers over here and educate our police force in better methods.



Nautilus said:

I protest against this thread!

Whyyy?



SvennoJ said:
KiigelHeart said:

I have, doesn't have much to do with this situation. They have an emergency squad for it and it arrives quickly. One of them stays there. Others need to carry on whatever task they had. No point touching someone with potentially serious injury and trauma if more qualified and equipped units are available.

I agree the two men shoving shouldn't continue to operate after the incident. Very likely too much going on inside their heads. 

Which is it... Too much going on inside their heads, step out, not qualified to continue. All they managed to do is to escalate the situation further, demonstrated by how this video went viral not only for the shove and resulting injury, also because they stepped around the guy (next guy telling them to move on) leaving him on the ground bleeding out of his ear.

There is a number of other officers walking past the man too..

Look, I already explained why it's wrong to say "they just left him there". Aid was provided quickly and let's hope he recovers. If the man had something like catasrophic bleeding then for sure they would've instantly tried to stop it because every second matters. As much as moving the man's head in this case could've just resulted in further damage. 



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sethnintendo said:
sundin13 said:

If someone is throwing bricks at an officer, the officer has the right to use the minimum force necessary to eliminate that threat.

That does not mean that if someone in a crowd throws a brick, the police have the right to punch everyone in that crowd.

It also does not mean that if someone throws a brick, the police get to beat that person up.

Note: This is just to be clear, not an implication that you said anything counter to this.

Agreed with everything you said.  The entire crowd is assumed guilty sometimes when most of them are peaceful.   Instead of focusing solely on the criminals they lump everyone together sometimes.   No excuse either to be hitting people in head with rubber bullets and bean bags.  They can be potentially deadly just getting hit in stomach and aiming for head is uncalled for. 

I believe European cops are better trained at handling these situations than cops here in USA.  I watched a few seasons of British show Caught on Camera and they seem to be able to arrest criminals a lot better than cops here.  Sure they have their incidents (far fewer than over here probably) but I was generally impressed on how they conduct themselves compared to cops here.  Perhaps England should send a few trainers over here and educate our police force in better methods.

You should look at the videos of Spanish police attacking Catalonians because they wanted to vote. There's videos of French police using non-lethal weapons designed to be aimed at the legs accidentally being fired at point blank range to people's faces. UK police killed a 'protester' who was just stood around trying to work out how to get home from work because all the streets were closed off.



Nov 2016 - NES outsells PS1 (JP)

Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!

These are the two cops who pushed and nearly killed that old man... We cannot trust the police to police themselves.



KiigelHeart said:

There is a number of other officers walking past the man too..

Look, I already explained why it's wrong to say "they just left him there". Aid was provided quickly and let's hope he recovers. If the man had something like catasrophic bleeding then for sure they would've instantly tried to stop it because every second matters. As much as moving the man's head in this case could've just resulted in further damage. 

In the end it would not have gone viral as much as it did if it didn't look like general display of apathy. Scenes like pictured there only fuel further protests. No, they should not have moved him, they should at least have immediately knelt down beside him and shielded him while calling for a medic or ambulance.

It looks like, oh well he fell and is bleeding out of his ear, but we have better things to do atm. Could you just move on after you pushed someone who falls down like that, intentional or not?

All it looks like is, we can be brutal against anyone, not just black people.


In the end it rests on the shoulders of the supervisors putting untrained people into situations like these.

And it gets worse

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/us/buffalo-police-suspension-shoving-man-trnd/index.html

Fifty-seven police officers in Buffalo, New York, have resigned from the force's emergency response team following the suspension of two officers who allegedly pushed a 75-year-old protester to the ground, a source close to the situation said Friday.

Ah some balls to stand up against situations like this, oh wait

"Fifty-seven resigned in disgust because of the treatment of two of their members, who were simply executing orders," Buffalo Police Benevolent Association president John Evans told WGRZ on Friday. WKBW also reported news of the resignations.

What the actual fuck. Oh they plead not guilty of course.


The man that got pushed:

Gugino is hospitalized in serious but stable condition, authorities said. An attorney representing Gugino released a statement saying Gugino is "alert and oriented" and described him as a longtime peaceful protester and human rights advocate. "Mr. Gugino requests privacy for himself and his family as he recovers," said Kelly V. Zarone. "He appreciates all of the well wishes he has received and requests that any further protests continue to be peaceful." Megan Toufexis, Gugino's niece, told CNN that her uncle attended the protest Thursday to discuss First Amendment rights with police.


Pyro as Bill said:
sethnintendo said:

Agreed with everything you said.  The entire crowd is assumed guilty sometimes when most of them are peaceful.   Instead of focusing solely on the criminals they lump everyone together sometimes.   No excuse either to be hitting people in head with rubber bullets and bean bags.  They can be potentially deadly just getting hit in stomach and aiming for head is uncalled for. 

I believe European cops are better trained at handling these situations than cops here in USA.  I watched a few seasons of British show Caught on Camera and they seem to be able to arrest criminals a lot better than cops here.  Sure they have their incidents (far fewer than over here probably) but I was generally impressed on how they conduct themselves compared to cops here.  Perhaps England should send a few trainers over here and educate our police force in better methods.

You should look at the videos of Spanish police attacking Catalonians because they wanted to vote. There's videos of French police using non-lethal weapons designed to be aimed at the legs accidentally being fired at point blank range to people's faces. UK police killed a 'protester' who was just stood around trying to work out how to get home from work because all the streets were closed off.

How quickly people forget the G7 protests in Bayonne, it was as far back as 2019.



sethnintendo said:
sundin13 said:

If someone is throwing bricks at an officer, the officer has the right to use the minimum force necessary to eliminate that threat.

That does not mean that if someone in a crowd throws a brick, the police have the right to punch everyone in that crowd.

It also does not mean that if someone throws a brick, the police get to beat that person up.

Note: This is just to be clear, not an implication that you said anything counter to this.

Agreed with everything you said.  The entire crowd is assumed guilty sometimes when most of them are peaceful.   Instead of focusing solely on the criminals they lump everyone together sometimes.   No excuse either to be hitting people in head with rubber bullets and bean bags.  They can be potentially deadly just getting hit in stomach and aiming for head is uncalled for. 

I believe European cops are better trained at handling these situations than cops here in USA.  I watched a few seasons of British show Caught on Camera and they seem to be able to arrest criminals a lot better than cops here.  Sure they have their incidents (far fewer than over here probably) but I was generally impressed on how they conduct themselves compared to cops here.  Perhaps England should send a few trainers over here and educate our police force in better methods.

I read that apparently you can become a cop with 110 hours of training (on a social media site), that pointed out it takes 2000+ hours to become a hair dresser.
(i have no idea if thats actually true for the US, and I shouldnt take twitter's randoms word for it)

In denmark, I believe it takes 4 years from the time you start, till your finished.
How many hours that is, I have no idea. Also your vetted and tested, so not just everyone can become one.
Theres also requirements to height, muscle build and fitness levels.

But again its kinda unfair to compair denmark to the US, your entire culture is alot more violent.
That and you have so many guns on the streets, makeing it that much risky a job, which without a doubt effects how cops react to things.

Lots of our police dont carry fire arms, and some can basically go their entire career, without haveing to fire it on the job.
Ofc they still have to go to shooting ranges ect, to make sure if they ever need too, that can actually make use of it.

But again our society is so differnt from the american one.
Free health care system, means people with mental health issues are taken care off, and get treatment.
Less crazy people (without treatment) on the streets, less in-equality and poor, less drug abuse, basically no guns...  It apples to oranges to compair.

That said the entire point was.... perphaps they need more or differnt training.