I don't know much about police training indeed, I only see the results which aren't pretty. It's a fundamental problem since it (excessive force, lack of de-escalation, bad decisions) keeps happening. When an accident happens in the airline industry (deadly outcome or not) and it turns out to be a problem in miscommunication or crew training, training procedures will be changed, regulations are changed and whole airline companies can close over bad practices to make sure the same thing doesn't happen again.

We have decades of data from incidents, comparisons with incidents with other countries can't be explained away because people in the USA are just bad people. There are plenty bugs in the system. Perhaps the USA needs to go back to a partner system, always 2 cops together. That would make it a lot safer for both already and far less need to use weapons to subdue people.

First off, don't call me my dear.

More importantly, O_O... You are still posting misinformation.  Despite the fact that I literally posted the information for you one post ago.

You are still making up figures.  As I've explained several times now, neither the 49% nor the 53% figure are accurate.  It's not a 4% error, because the 53% figure is no more accurate than the 49% figure. Not only do you post figures without checking to see if they're accurate, but somehow even after being shown that they're inaccurate you're still doing it.

But the issue is not about how accurate the information is, but about the fact that you don't care enough to actually check the figure and make sure it's accurate.  When you posted 49% you had no idea what the actual figure is (which btw is still not 53%).  If I said your penis is 2 inches long then that's a problem.  Even if your penis is actually very small, I have no way of knowing that, so it's irresponsible and dishonest of me to say so.

Please answer this.  Do you understand that the problem is not how accurate the information is, but the fact that you posted it without any rational basis for knowing how accurate it was? (This btw is an example of me conveying my opinion through a question.  It's quite possible.)

Black people did as a matter of fact did not commit significantly more crimes in 2015. Based on the available data, it seems they committed significantly fewer crimes than white people did. I literally explained this one post ago.  They did not commit 49% or 53% of the crime. They made up 27% of arrests in 2015. Even if we assume that the arrest rate matches the rate of crimes being committed, you're not off by 4%, you're off by 22%. Nearly a factor of 2. Like, I gave you the actual information one post ago and somehow you're still posting misinformation.

Again, please stop pretending that saying "It makes sense that x must be the case" is not stating an opinion.  If you do, it makes sense that you must be lying.  (Which obviously isn't me saying you're lying... I'm just shaping my opinion here). It's weird that things keep getting explained to you, you don't suggest any flaw in the explanation, and just go on as if it hadn't been explained to you.

This is like someone getting caught in the middle of a murder, and when they get arrested telling the cop "oh you only arrested me cause you're biased".  You're posting misinformation and you're getting called on it. If that bothers you, then stop posting misinformation.

I don't know what research you did.  That's why I asked. Based on the quality of your posts though, I'm guessing not a whole lot. Feel free to prove me wrong.  How much research have you done?  What sources have you been using?

And no, we can't discuss other things.  Because your opinions are only as good as your data.  If you don't understand why posting stats without knowing what the source is, whether the data is accurate, and apparently not even knowing where you even found the statistic, is a problem, then you don't have proper standards of evidence.  Your epistemology is basically "Well I found this on the internet and that's good enough for me". If someone doesn't understand how to come to sound conclusions, anything they say is worthless.

so my opinions are 4% off and hence not good MY DEAR ?

obviously with the 49/53 % I was referring to the most important crime that is murder, 27% arrests for a 13% population is still a 200% more which backs up my claim that black people commit more crimes

I think you are a fact denier, you analyze everything except the data itself and hold on to little details such as a 4% inaccuracy or the unresolved murders, and find excuses to avoid what is obvious

I understand that you want to know exactly where the data is coming from, and this is a good thing so I'll make sure to note sources in the future even though this is a casual gaming forum and not a university essay, but accusing me of posting misinformation is just pushing it too far

taking the 49% figure and adding the 4% to white results in a x5.87 as many murders where the actual 53% figure results in x6.97 as many, so i used x6 instead of the actual x7, and that declares my opinion as invalid and misinformation? if you regard that as misinformation instead of inaccuracy then you are seriously biased

you exaggerate and make it look dramatic, and even accuse me of making up figures for that :/

Did read about the prison system in US and it seems really insane that it is not focussing on rehabilitation,you could call it a factory that takes in people for small offenses but pumps out criminals or makes it harder to live a decent life.
And why is capitalism again more important,if they can offer no better life to the inmates then it is pure slavery to use them for profits to only put a lot of them back in the world with more incentive to behave ''badly''.

They tore down a statue of Thomas Jefferson
https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2020/06/protesters-take-down-thomas-jefferson-statue-in-front-of-portlands-jefferson-high-school.html

Really doubt this is gonna go over well with a majority of Americans

so my opinions are 4% off and hence not good MY DEAR ?

1. I asked you not to call me something, which seems like a reasonable request.  It's not at all relevant to this conversation... So at this point the only reason to do so is an attempt to intentionally antagonize me. AKA trolling. This is the second time I'm telling you not to, so I'm assuming that should be enough.

2.I don't know how much clearer I can be about this point.  I've explained that the 4% you keep harping on about is just as much garbage as any other stat you've posted, and I've explained why the degree of accuracy isn't the problem. Somehow you come back with SO THE PROBLEM IS I'M OFF BY 4%?  Like... I dunno... did you read anything I said?  Maybe numbering things will help you out?

3.  Do you understand that the total of black and white murder should not add up to 100%, and therefore your 53% figure cannot be accurate, and therefore your constant claim of "I'm only off by 4%" is fallacious? Do you understand that you have to account for the 25% of the population that is not black or white, and until you do, you cannot extrapolate based on the data?

4. Again, "Do you understand that the problem is not how accurate the information is, but the fact that you posted it without any rational basis for knowing how accurate it was?"

I don't know how many more times I'll have to type the word sorry for not stating the source, it's been at least twice

do you understand that you exaggerate? by presenting small inaccuracy as 'misinformation' and make it sound dramatic, even accusing me of making up stats? and now "any other stat I've posted" is garbage!? because I didn't state the source on one of them? seriously... I understand that you may disagree with my views in some topics, but calling the stats garbage? all because they do not serve your views

you are desperate on downgrading my opinions that you hold on to this thing and try to make it sound huge, I highly doubt you would make it a big matter or even ask for a source for someone who agreed with you, but I get attacked brutally because I dare post some data to discuss while still shaping up my opinion... your bias is unreal

what 25% of the population are you referring to? if it's about the Hispanic/Latino they are obviously included in the White race, since there is the 'Other' category that only "Includes American Indian or Alaska Native, Asian, and Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander."

all the other figures I posted stated sources on them anyway, and again my intention was to talk and learn more about actual US society problems not this... but yeah, as you said before, with these figures that I post I'm not worth discussing anything with, how dare I

This is just a very difficult discussion to have. Unless you are 100% behind the protesters and agree with every policy they are pushing, you have no saying in the matter.

A reform within the police? Great. Good idea.

Defunding the police? Not sure what that would do, but tell me more.

Abolish the police? Well thats just the worst idea Ive ever heard.


Things keep escalating. Wasnt this about police brutality at one point? Every person on earth agree that what happened to George Floyd was wrong. The police officer murdered him. Fact. He is arrested and is awaiting trial. Yet all we hear about now is people tearing down statues of people because they did some bad things in their life or people taking over a part of Seattle and forming a new country pretty much. Ive never heard the term "white supremacy" uttered so much in the news and articles in my entire life. The message is just being lost here. Its very frustrating.

Thats generally not what defunding the police is about. Basically the idea is that police budgets are absurd. Here is an image out of Denver that I think illustrates this point:

We know that there are a lot of risk factors which lead to crime. If we shift the budgets to other priorities such as education and housing, you can tackle crime issues in a way which actually benefits the community. While we shouldn't abolish the police, we do have to understand that our current justice system increases recidivism. That means if you are arrested, you are more likely to commit additional crimes. This is obviously not beneficial for the very bottom line of preventative policing. The justice system is failing in many ways.

Now, how do we "defund" the police in beneficial ways? Well, there are a few solid ideas that I've seen thrown around. One is changing what we are asking police to do. Many of the things that police get sent out for don't really need an armed response. One example is rape cases. The vast majority of the time, when victims contact police, they are not in any current pressing danger, so sending someone who fulfills more of a social worker/mental health expert role could make reporting easier for the victims while alleviating some of the pressure on our policing system. Overall, we need to ask as a society "how often do we really need an armed response?" Doing so can allow us to downsize police departments while improving interactions with victims. This obviously extends far beyond this one example, but this comment isn't meant to be comprehensive.

A second way to reduce funding for police is by reducing the militarization of police. Across the country, police own almost $600million worth of Mine Resistant vehicles. Why exactly is this necessary? Police departments don't need to be outfitted to fight in Afghanistan, they should be outfitted to interact with the community, not go to war. How much money do you think was wasted on the excessive police response we've seen with these protests over the last few weeks? How much was wasted on those inhumane LRADs we've seen around the country?

It goes far beyond these two examples, but police in this country have become extremely bloated, taking on tasks that they don't need to do and operating in ways which don't provide benefit, while other avenues of spending have been neglected or cut.

do you understand that you exaggerate? by presenting small inaccuracy as 'misinformation' and make it sound dramatic, even accusing me of making up stats?

Again, "Do you understand that the problem is not how accurate the information is, but the fact that you posted it without any rational basis for knowing how accurate it was?"

The problem is you still don't seem to get it. When you say "Oh I'm sorry, but I was only off by a little (which still isn't true btw) so really it's ok" you're completely missing the point.#Sorrynotsorry" The problem is that you're posting things as if they're true without knowing if they're true.  That's dishonest.  If it's the case that you were only off by a little (we still don't know that because you've yet to find the actual figure) then that's just luck, and does not in any way justify your actions. Again, if I say your penis is two inches long, then I'm full of shit, regardless of the actual size of your penis.

now "any other stat I've posted" is garbage!? because I didn't state the source on one of them? seriously... I understand that you may disagree with my views in some topics, but calling the stats garbage? all because they do not serve your views

No, every other stat is not garbage because you didn't post the source on one of them them.  Every other stat is garbage because they're all inaccurate garbage. I explained why your stats are garbage.  Because, they don't seem to account for a large chunk of the population, and they simply throw out 1/3 of the data. You can't just throw out 1/3 of the data and assume your sample is still random. Ask a statistician if you could just ignore 1/3 of your data.  If they say "yup nbd" I'll stand corrected.

I haven't expressed any views so I'm not sure which ones they don't serve. How can I disagree with your view if you haven't presented it XD.

you are desperate on downgrading my opinions that you hold on to this thing and try to make it sound huge, I highly doubt you would make it a big matter or even ask for a source for someone who agreed with you, but I get attacked brutally because I dare post some data to discuss while still shaping up my opinion... your bias is unreal

You doubt it?  Cool.  I give precisely zero fucks whether or not you think I'm biased.  You posted misinformation, and you continue to do so.  As such, you'll continue to get called on it.

what 25% of the population are you referring to? if it's about the Hispanic/Latino they are obviously included in the White race, since there is the 'Other' category that only "Includes American Indian or Alaska Native, Asian, and Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander."

All of the other graphs you posted list hispanics as a separate category.  Which means that if that data counts hispanics as whites, and this data doesn't, you cannot compare them. Again, this is really basic statistics.  If you're not defining your variables in the same way, you cannot compare them across different "studies".

If Hispanics and Latinos were incorporated in the white data (which you haven't given any reliable source to show that they are and not incorporated into the 1/3 of the data that's unknown) then that drastically changes the ratio.  In your last post, you said your first claim was the murder arrest rate for black people was 6x as much as white people. But IF hispanics are being incorporated into the white figure, and we ignore the issue of 1/3 of the data being unaccounted for, then that would mean black people would actually be arrested for murder at about 10x the rate.

This is an absolutely massive difference.  You're off by 66% (again this is assuming hispanics count as white). IF murder arrest rates are correlated with police brutality, that would completely change the correlation.

 This is why I say all of the stats you post are garbage.  Because they're garbage.

all the other figures I posted stated sources on them anyway, and again my intention was to talk and learn more about actual US society problems not this... but yeah, as you said before, with these figures that I post I'm not worth discussing anything with, how dare I

Yeah... when you post figures without knowing where they're from, admittedly without caring for the source, and use trolling 101 tactics (Oh, I'm not saying it must be the case that people are racist against black people because they commit so many crimes... I'm just saying it makes sense that people are racist against black people because they commit so many crimes.  No opinion here folks, just a guy looking for answers, why are you attacking me for just looking for answers), people are going to justifiably believe that you're being disingenuous. 

If you sincerely wanted to learn more about US societal problems, you could have. So I'll ask for the third time.  How much time have you put into researching this?  What sources have you found?