Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Xbox Series X's cross-gen approach is robbing players of the next-gen thrill

you expect parity between xox and xsx?
you aren't serious i hope?



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I can't say I agree with this. As a base Xbox One owner, I can tell you right now that it has reached the point where it is horribly outdated. Games are coming in at 720p more and more frequently on base XB1, framerate issues are also becoming more and more common, load times are atrocious in open world games and even some more linear games; and those problems are only going to be worse on cross-gen games than they are on current gen games. You'd have to be crazy to want to play cross-gen games on a base Xbox One instead of an Xbox Series X. It's less of an issue if you have an Xbox One X, but the CPU and hard drive in Xbox One X are still pretty big limiting factors for it.

Besides, it's not like literally every Xbox game is cross-gen, 2 of the games on the Xbox 3rd party showcase event were Series X/PC only, Scorn and The Ascent. As for 1st/2nd party, Matt Booty said games for the next 2 years would be cross-gen, and by that he meant 2020 and 2021; we'll start seeing Series X/PC exclusive 1st/2nd party games in 2022, maybe even as soon as Holiday 2021 (based on the graphics in the Hellblade 2 trailer it is next-gen, not cross-gen, and I doubt that MS will wait until 2022 to release it since the game has been in development since 2018 and since they showed the trailer in 2019). And I suspect that several of the cross-gen games Holiday 2020 and 2021 will have cater made next-gen ports, instead of just being current gen games with settings cranked up to PC ultra at 4K, so they'll basically look like they are next-gen exclusive on Xbox Series X even if they're cross-gen.

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 17 May 2020

goopy20 said:
chakkra said:

Man, I'm starting to feel like I'm in an eternal Deja vu. We have been discussing the very same thing for months now.

But let's try this again:

Goopy, you seem to be struggling to grasp the concept of scalability. You see, if they take the very same UE5 demo that impressed you so much and scale it down enough, it will run on a PS4; which means ANY game from this engine that looks as good as this demo will also be playable on the PS4 with the correct amount of downscaling. Now, will that prevent the PS5 from offering next-gen graphics? I'm inclined to say no.

And another thing: UE5 won't release until next gear, which means is safe to assume that no developer is actually using it just yet. Now, we don't know how many developers from Sony are using UE4, but we know that most developers from MS actually do use it; and we also know that (according to Epic) it will be easy to port to the newer version. So I think you should consider the possibility that you might actually see an UE5 game running on XSX before than on PS5.

The tech demo focused on 2 major new next-gen features. Rendering limitless geometry/ 8k movie quality assets on the fly, and dynamic global illumination. If you turn those two things off, the demo would have looked like a Tom Raider clone running on the Unreal 4 engine. Now do you honestly think the ps4/ Xone can handle Lumen and Nanite without bursting in a ball of flames? 

In any case, it isn't all about just the unreal 5 engine as Sony's studios mostly use their own custom engines. What's important is that Sony's is all about leaping into next gen, leaving ps4 behind and allowing their 1st party games to make full use of the ps5's capabilities. MS on the other hand is basically making Xbox One games that just run better on Series X.

I don't think MS marketing department is run by complete idiots that don't know what they're doing. They showed us exactly what they've been promising for months, which is Xone games that run better X1X and even better on Series X, pretty much like we're seeing on pc. So you tell me how they'll be able to take advantage of the next gen features of Unreal 5 like Lumen and Nanite, if those games also have to run on Xone and are designed with parity in mind?   

That is literally the whole concept of scalability. I think the issue here is that you dont seem to want to accept that games can be built around the highest denominator and then scaled down. Epic can do it, Sony can do it, MS can do it, and I think pretty much any studio would be able to do it if they so desire.



The Xbox presentation did just that. Prove to me I have no reason to be excited for Series X. When I saw Shenmue, I obsessed over the Dreamcast leading up to launch and what it could do. Same with Giest Force and even Sonic Adventure. Truly next-gen games in not just graphics but gameplay. Gears of War, Dead Rising, Lost Planet also had a very next-gen feel to them in not just visuals but gameplay. Xbox showed a game interesting to me....it's also releasing on PS4 and that s where I am buying it. Now it's still early hype and in a month we should know a whole lot more. June might wash all these worries away. Just as it stands right now. I'm still waiting for that one game that truly shows what next-gen looks like but also gameplay only possible on new machines. This gen we didn't get those games until Bloodborne and Witcher 3. So I waited till 2015 to get a PS4. So right now I wonder will next-gen be the same? Will we need to wait 2 years for that again?



Bite my shiny metal Cockpit!

The graphical gap between generations has consistently decreased, and we're only about 4 years out from the mid gen upgraded systems. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised but I don't think either company con provide a next gen thrill in terms of graphics.



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Too early to tell cause there's more events from both companies.



             

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Mr Puggsly said:
"Where was the pizzazz? The mind-blowing graphics? The huge step in gaming experiences that we've been waiting for?"

I think these morons forget we didn't really have that in 2013 either. Most was cross gen, while the next gen exclusives weren't amazing. Some of the most impressive games this gen came years later or will be here at the end.

Anyhow, another great find by goopy.

Hmm,

Ryse: Son of Rome looked amazing and instantly showed the difference between the 360 and the XB1. It could've been a better game but it wanted to look nice and it did that super well.
KZ Shadowfall did the same and Infamous SS a couple months later.

The cross-gen games like Black flag and Cod Ghosts were the games that didn't really show anything. 

(I support the cross gen approach, as it helps XB1 owners get more value out of their purchase and we will get those next gen experiences eventually. In the meantime I'm sure there will be some games that show the big difference between the hardware)



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goopy20 said:

I have to be honest. They're not entirely wrong. On one hand its great that MS is being so consumer friendly. But isn't their "Smart Delivery" approach a double edged sword, especially after the hype a simple tech demo created for ps5? Thoughts?

Their smart delivery service is not going to be any different to Sony's cross-buy service, which Sony themselves will most likely continue onto the PS5. (I understand both servces work in different ways but the result is the same).

For now, we can't tell if MS's insistence on cross-gen is going to be an issue or not. 

How much of their userbase doesn't want to upgrade as opposed to those who want next gen to be next gen?

How do these cross gen games operate on both  current and next gen? Do they suffer on XBO? Or are they limited in potential on XSX? 

The latter I think is important. But Until we see and know more, there is no way of telling if this helps the or hurts them. 



Shiken said:
eva01beserk said:

OK if the quote is not enouff did you watch the entire video then? Its basicly all praise. And Im not guaranting anythin as I have no way of knowing. Im just repeating what other "experts" say  that know more than me and it makes me hopefull. 

And there is nothing wrong with that.  I just know these tech demos are often to show what the engine is capable of when pushed under ideal conditions.

I am not saying next gen won't be impressive, just keeping expectations in check.  Until I see things in action with enemies, open worlds, and various NPCs with AI walking around all at once on my own console, there is no reason for me to believe this tech demo is representative of the games I will be playing.

Tech demo's exist to "demonstrate technology".
Tech = Technology.
Demo's = Demonstrations.

The technology being demonstrated in this instance was the Lighting (Lumin) and Geometry (Nanite).

It is not a representation of any particular games coming out or what the platform is capable of, it is a representation of those two technologies running on that hardware set.

chakkra said:

That is literally the whole concept of scalability. I think the issue here is that you dont seem to want to accept that games can be built around the highest denominator and then scaled down. Epic can do it, Sony can do it, MS can do it, and I think pretty much any studio would be able to do it if they so desire.

In the PC's case the opposite happens. Games are built for the consoles... And then scale upwards to high-end PC's by tacking on new features and effects.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Shiken said:

So being pro consumer is now letting down said consumers....?

Most games have always been cross gen for about 2 years for new consoles.  It is why the "PS4 has no gamez" and the "indiestation 4" became a thing at the start of last gen.  The only difference is that MS is allowing you to only have to buy the game once if you don't have the money or supplies are limited for next gen.

People hating on this move are really trying too hard...

People always say 2 years, but it was more like 1 year.
Sony used 2nd party + 3rd party exclusives to more than make up for it, by the early-mid 2nd year they had a higher output of excules than xbox did.

Basically apart from the launch year, I think xbox got its arse handed to it, by sony in terms of software.