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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Next gen PS5/XB1SX sales ratio will look the same as this gen's. Huge changes in console marketshare require huge changes in the industry.

Conina on 18 May 2020
only777 said:
Conina said:

I doubt that.

If loading times to the game menu or loading the level takes 5 seconds on PS5 and 10 seconds on XSX, both are in the "good enough" territory and the few seconds less are diminishing returns.

Theoretically the 175 GiB SSD capacity difference of the XSX (1000 GiB) and PS5 (825 GiB) could be used to hold the memory of the last ten played games (10 x 16 GB RAM dumped to the SSD within ~5 seconds. If the announced SSD speeds are true, any of these 10 games could be restored within ~5 seconds... and not only to the game menu, but exactly to the points where you saved these games.

Theoretically PS5 could save games within ~3 seconds and restore these memory dumps within ~3 seconds... wow, you would be saving 2 - 3 seconds per game (but either you have less space for these huge "save files" or you have less space to install games due to the smaller SSD.)

Where did you get these XSX / PS5 numbers from and what software is this based on?

Math?

IF the SSD of the PS5 can write the advertized 5.5 GB/s sequential, it should theoretically be able to mirror the whole 16 GB RAM from memory to SSD within ~3 seconds. (16 GB / 5.5 = 2.9 seconds), no matter which software is currently run.

IF the SSD of the PS5 can read the advertized 5.5 GB/s sequential, it should theoretically be able to mirror the whole 16 GB file from SSD to memory within ~3 seconds. (16 GB / 5.5 = 2.9 seconds). You wouldn't have to go through game logos or intros or menus... you start exactly at the point you left the game after the full restore.

IF the SSD of the XSX can write the advertized 2.4 GB/s sequential, it should theoretically be able to mirror the whole 16 GB RAM from memory to SSD within 6 - 7 seconds. (16 GB / 2.4 = 6.67 seconds), no matter which software is currently run.

IF the SSD of the XSX can read the advertized 2.4 GB/s sequential, it should theoretically be able to mirror the whole 16 GB file from SSD to memory within 6 - 7 seconds. (16 GB / 2.4 = 6.67 seconds). You wouldn't have to go through game logos or intros or menus... you start exactly at the point you left the game after the full restore.

Loading the next level of a game could go even faster, since only a fraction of the total memory will be updated (or slower if many small files have to be loaded).

Last edited by Conina - on 18 May 2020

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eva01beserk on 18 May 2020
smroadkill15 said:
eva01beserk said:

You can pretend I said what ever you want but I like they way your going. It dosent make sense does it?

Now with what I said, of thouse 10m "users", How many are currently subed, or reocurring subs or temp subs that only do it while theres a  special offer or the month a big release come out? Nobody knows right. As far as we know that could be 10m individuals who used gamepass at some point. The current subs could be lower. How is split between paid, free or discount is unknown and MS is never gona tell us.

And yea, gamepass is a good offer. If you have an xbox you should definnetly jump on that. Even lower quality games that they offer is still  bargain. And the few AAA they add is also really good and if they do increase the amount of games added would be even better. Just saying that with that model off buisness they need a really high number of subs to offset the cost. and that cost gets bigger the more AAA games they add. So they can make the service great now at a loss to gain subs or wait untill theres more subs to make it better. dont know. Dont know the cost or profit. they are not telling. Just saying where it a succes they would be more clear and stop trying to hide numbers. but the value of gamepass is top notch.

You're subtle downplay of gamepass is impressive. You've really gotten great at giving backhand complements. Real question, do you even have gamepass for xbox? They have a ton of AAA games on that service and new ones are added monthly. I'm not sure why you are so concerned with what gamepass has sold or whatever.

I'm just going to leave this quote from Phil Spencer for you.

"Gamers in general, there is sometimes a tendency that the more walls we put up around things, the more valuable it is. But if we're focused on growing the games industry, we should not be less accessible. We should be more accessible. We had this argument for years over cross-play. Should we allow people to play across different platforms? Or does that somehow diminish the value of an individual platform?

The thing at the highest level, which will probably get me in trouble, is as gamers you should focus on what you want, not focus on, like, my P&L [profit and loss statement], or the P&L of the console you chose to invest in. I see this dialogue about somebody worried that somehow Xbox is gonna make less money, or their console is gonna make less money if they tell me a game is going to be on a different platform before it actually comes out, or it's gonna be in a subscription, which is really what I want, but somehow that's gonna mean less money for them so I don't want them to do that because I'd rather pay more money so...

You should focus on you as a gamer and the things that matter to you. We as the people running the business - I am incented to run a good business inside of Microsoft and in the long term. I've been here for 31 years. I don't know that I'll make 31 more, but I'm not going anywhere tomorrow. We're building an Xbox business for the long run. I'll tell you, Game Pass today is a strong part of that, and it continues to get stronger, and it supports the building of great IP."

No I dont have an Xbox. I have a PlayStation that I barely play anymore. I mainly play on my switch. 

Downplay? Me saying its good for gamers subtle downplay? Or you just asume I hate everything xbox so any complement I gave must have something attached to it? I get thought when you are in defense mode you just have to look at everything like an attack.

But thats great quote. But thats like saying if your a jogger don't worry about there not being a bridge, let the goverment worrie about that just keep runing. What dosent work there is that our actions impact even others futures. So thinking of things that could harm you or others in the future is something all adults should do.

But I'll say it simple and tell you that theres no hidden meaning or anything. Gamepass is a great service for gamers, it's not a great service for MS unless they have a crazzy amount of subs. I worry because if they can't make it work they wont just cancel it, it could have a negative impact on other divisions.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

DonFerrari on 18 May 2020
smroadkill15 said:
eva01beserk said:

You can pretend I said what ever you want but I like they way your going. It dosent make sense does it?

Now with what I said, of thouse 10m "users", How many are currently subed, or reocurring subs or temp subs that only do it while theres a  special offer or the month a big release come out? Nobody knows right. As far as we know that could be 10m individuals who used gamepass at some point. The current subs could be lower. How is split between paid, free or discount is unknown and MS is never gona tell us.

And yea, gamepass is a good offer. If you have an xbox you should definnetly jump on that. Even lower quality games that they offer is still  bargain. And the few AAA they add is also really good and if they do increase the amount of games added would be even better. Just saying that with that model off buisness they need a really high number of subs to offset the cost. and that cost gets bigger the more AAA games they add. So they can make the service great now at a loss to gain subs or wait untill theres more subs to make it better. dont know. Dont know the cost or profit. they are not telling. Just saying where it a succes they would be more clear and stop trying to hide numbers. but the value of gamepass is top notch.

You're subtle downplay of gamepass is impressive. You've really gotten great at giving backhand complements. Real question, do you even have gamepass for xbox? They have a ton of AAA games on that service and new ones are added monthly. I'm not sure why you are so concerned with what gamepass has sold or whatever.

I'm just going to leave this quote from Phil Spencer for you.

"Gamers in general, there is sometimes a tendency that the more walls we put up around things, the more valuable it is. But if we're focused on growing the games industry, we should not be less accessible. We should be more accessible. We had this argument for years over cross-play. Should we allow people to play across different platforms? Or does that somehow diminish the value of an individual platform?

The thing at the highest level, which will probably get me in trouble, is as gamers you should focus on what you want, not focus on, like, my P&L [profit and loss statement], or the P&L of the console you chose to invest in. I see this dialogue about somebody worried that somehow Xbox is gonna make less money, or their console is gonna make less money if they tell me a game is going to be on a different platform before it actually comes out, or it's gonna be in a subscription, which is really what I want, but somehow that's gonna mean less money for them so I don't want them to do that because I'd rather pay more money so...

You should focus on you as a gamer and the things that matter to you. We as the people running the business - I am incented to run a good business inside of Microsoft and in the long term. I've been here for 31 years. I don't know that I'll make 31 more, but I'm not going anywhere tomorrow. We're building an Xbox business for the long run. I'll tell you, Game Pass today is a strong part of that, and it continues to get stronger, and it supports the building of great IP."

He is just wrong on a portion. Me as a gamer worry if the company is making enough profit because if it isn't and the business is at risk it may stop giving me what I want. And if the profits margin are too big them possibly I'm being ripped off.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

kirby007 on 18 May 2020
DonFerrari said:
smroadkill15 said:

You're subtle downplay of gamepass is impressive. You've really gotten great at giving backhand complements. Real question, do you even have gamepass for xbox? They have a ton of AAA games on that service and new ones are added monthly. I'm not sure why you are so concerned with what gamepass has sold or whatever.

I'm just going to leave this quote from Phil Spencer for you.

"Gamers in general, there is sometimes a tendency that the more walls we put up around things, the more valuable it is. But if we're focused on growing the games industry, we should not be less accessible. We should be more accessible. We had this argument for years over cross-play. Should we allow people to play across different platforms? Or does that somehow diminish the value of an individual platform?

The thing at the highest level, which will probably get me in trouble, is as gamers you should focus on what you want, not focus on, like, my P&L [profit and loss statement], or the P&L of the console you chose to invest in. I see this dialogue about somebody worried that somehow Xbox is gonna make less money, or their console is gonna make less money if they tell me a game is going to be on a different platform before it actually comes out, or it's gonna be in a subscription, which is really what I want, but somehow that's gonna mean less money for them so I don't want them to do that because I'd rather pay more money so...

You should focus on you as a gamer and the things that matter to you. We as the people running the business - I am incented to run a good business inside of Microsoft and in the long term. I've been here for 31 years. I don't know that I'll make 31 more, but I'm not going anywhere tomorrow. We're building an Xbox business for the long run. I'll tell you, Game Pass today is a strong part of that, and it continues to get stronger, and it supports the building of great IP."

He is just wrong on a portion. Me as a gamer worry if the company is making enough profit because if it isn't and the business is at risk it may stop giving me what I want. And if the profits margin are too big them possibly I'm being ripped off.

... are you setting yourself up with that on purpose?



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

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ArchangelMadzz on 18 May 2020

As mentioned, their best chance of 'winning' a generation was the 360. And they still fell short with the huge PR/Price/Time advantage.

We all know that Xbox will never out sell Playstation, but as long as they keep giving their customers good experiences (And putting games on PC) then that's good for all of us.



There's only 2 races: White and 'Political Agenda'
2 Genders: Male and 'Political Agenda'
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DonFerrari on 18 May 2020
kirby007 said:
DonFerrari said:

He is just wrong on a portion. Me as a gamer worry if the company is making enough profit because if it isn't and the business is at risk it may stop giving me what I want. And if the profits margin are too big them possibly I'm being ripped off.

... are you setting yourself up with that on purpose?

Because?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

smroadkill15 on 18 May 2020
eva01beserk said:

No I dont have an Xbox. I have a PlayStation that I barely play anymore. I mainly play on my switch. 

Downplay? Me saying its good for gamers subtle downplay? Or you just asume I hate everything xbox so any complement I gave must have something attached to it? I get thought when you are in defense mode you just have to look at everything like an attack.

But thats great quote. But thats like saying if your a jogger don't worry about there not being a bridge, let the goverment worrie about that just keep runing. What dosent work there is that our actions impact even others futures. So thinking of things that could harm you or others in the future is something all adults should do.

But I'll say it simple and tell you that theres no hidden meaning or anything. Gamepass is a great service for gamers, it's not a great service for MS unless they have a crazzy amount of subs. I worry because if they can't make it work they wont just cancel it, it could have a negative impact on other divisions.

Every complement you give gamepass comes with some sort of dig towards it as well."Gamepass is not a bad offer. But also indicates that they are uneilling to offer quality games. If they do it will be like one a year and a bunch of Indy games or it just would not be worth it." Now you're backtracking by saying it's a great service for gamers. 

Here we go with the analogies again. If the bridge is working fine and is getting proper maintenance, why should someone care? Now if the bridge needed to be repaired and nobody was doing anything about it, then someone should worry. There is nothing wrong with Gamepass and it's a great value, so why should any care how MS handles it? Phil Spencer himself said, don't worry about it. 



Cerebralbore101 on 18 May 2020

Gamepass is the one thing MS is doing right. Can we get off that subject please?



eva01beserk on 18 May 2020
smroadkill15 said:
eva01beserk said:

No I dont have an Xbox. I have a PlayStation that I barely play anymore. I mainly play on my switch. 

Downplay? Me saying its good for gamers subtle downplay? Or you just asume I hate everything xbox so any complement I gave must have something attached to it? I get thought when you are in defense mode you just have to look at everything like an attack.

But thats great quote. But thats like saying if your a jogger don't worry about there not being a bridge, let the goverment worrie about that just keep runing. What dosent work there is that our actions impact even others futures. So thinking of things that could harm you or others in the future is something all adults should do.

But I'll say it simple and tell you that theres no hidden meaning or anything. Gamepass is a great service for gamers, it's not a great service for MS unless they have a crazzy amount of subs. I worry because if they can't make it work they wont just cancel it, it could have a negative impact on other divisions.

Every complement you give gamepass comes with some sort of dig towards it as well."Gamepass is not a bad offer. But also indicates that they are uneilling to offer quality games. If they do it will be like one a year and a bunch of Indy games or it just would not be worth it." Now you're backtracking by saying it's a great service for gamers. 

Here we go with the analogies again. If the bridge is working fine and is getting proper maintenance, why should someone care? Now if the bridge needed to be repaired and nobody was doing anything about it, then someone should worry. There is nothing wrong with Gamepass and it's a great value, so why should any care how MS handles it? Phil Spencer himself said, don't worry about it. 

Thats because you believe that its perfect so even if I say 90% possitive and 10% negative than you are still insulted. Nothing is perfect.

Never backtracked. While I still belive is good value for gamers, it dosent need 3 to 4 AAA to make it work. With the one they have been offering it should be fine. And acording to financials there should be no reason to change that. Now regarding that quote, read the entire post, it was about if game pass would sell xsx. I still say that it won't. Why would it if its a service thats available everywhere. 

But I love analogies. I think the issue right there, you see nothing wrong and just go over it. But others see things that you would not look at and they worrie. And if they tell you every is fine but still hide results that's a big red flag.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

Pemalite on 18 May 2020
Conina said:

Math?

IF the SSD of the PS5 can write the advertized 5.5 GB/s sequential, it should theoretically be able to mirror the whole 16 GB RAM from memory to SSD within ~3 seconds. (16 GB / 5.5 = 2.9 seconds), no matter which software is currently run.

IF the SSD of the PS5 can read the advertized 5.5 GB/s sequential, it should theoretically be able to mirror the whole 16 GB file from SSD to memory within ~3 seconds. (16 GB / 5.5 = 2.9 seconds). You wouldn't have to go through game logos or intros or menus... you start exactly at the point you left the game after the full restore.

IF the SSD of the XSX can write the advertized 2.4 GB/s sequential, it should theoretically be able to mirror the whole 16 GB RAM from memory to SSD within 6 - 7 seconds. (16 GB / 2.4 = 6.67 seconds), no matter which software is currently run.

IF the SSD of the XSX can read the advertized 2.4 GB/s sequential, it should theoretically be able to mirror the whole 16 GB file from SSD to memory within 6 - 7 seconds. (16 GB / 2.4 = 6.67 seconds). You wouldn't have to go through game logos or intros or menus... you start exactly at the point you left the game after the full restore.

Loading the next level of a game could go even faster, since only a fraction of the total memory will be updated (or slower if many small files have to be loaded).

The Nintendo 64 could do it comparatively faster from Cart to Ram than the Playstation 5. 

The Nintendo 64 had 8MB of Ram and had transfer rates of 264MB/s from Cart to Ram. - That means the Nintendo 64 could transfer 33x the Ram capacity per second.

It definitely aided developers, because they could use the Cart as a form of very fast "extended" memory.

That is the best technological example of the benefits of fast storage to Ram we actually have, it did remove all load times, it did eliminate pop-in, it did free up memory for higher quality texturing and models that would have otherwise been out of the scope of the hardwares capabilities.

But it did not increase the lighting effects, it didn't increase the A.I capabilities, it didn't transformatively change physics as we know it, granted the Nintendo 64 had other intrinsic limitations, the memory transaction speeds certainly were not one of them.

Essentially my point is, we have seen fast storage > ram transfer rates before... Heck, the Playstation 4/Xbox One mechanical hard drive is about 1/4th the speed of a Nintendo 64 cart and the Xbox One/Playstation 4 consoles have much larger worlds and more impressive visuals...

A system is more than just a single part or aspect, it's how every component works together.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--