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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - What 20 million sellers does the Switch have left?

burninmylight said:
Wyrdness said:

Here's the thing with Pokemon and the new DLC approach I'm not sure if we'd really get another game because I can see things going the expansion route where they for example remake D/P's region as an expansion for Sw/Sh.

I highly doubt that The Pokemon Company would greenlight the idea of remaking an entire region in full HD 3D, only to sell it at the price of an expansion and miss out on the marketing opportunities you get with a brand new game.

The new areas and content that are coming to Sword and Shield are a fraction of what Gen IV offered.

Except DLC now days is fast becoming as good as a new game I can see them green lighting it because the lower expansion price is made up by the fact that as an expansion people have had to purchase the base game so they make up money that way as it pushes Sw/Sh sales up. Rather than have a new game they'd have one central game that is supported this gives the game more staying power they've already forgone a third version in favour of supporting the game so I don't see why not.



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Wyrdness said:
burninmylight said:

I highly doubt that The Pokemon Company would greenlight the idea of remaking an entire region in full HD 3D, only to sell it at the price of an expansion and miss out on the marketing opportunities you get with a brand new game.

The new areas and content that are coming to Sword and Shield are a fraction of what Gen IV offered.

Except DLC now days is fast becoming as good as a new game I can see them green lighting it because the lower expansion price is made up by the fact that as an expansion people have had to purchase the base game so they make up money that way as it pushes Sw/Sh sales up. Rather than have a new game they'd have one central game that is supported this gives the game more staying power they've already forgone a third version in favour of supporting the game so I don't see why not.

If they sell it as new DLC it will make much less buzz than a new game. People who don't care for gen 8 and wants to play Gen 4 due to nostalgia will need to buy Sw/Sh before and this alienate them. Nintendo can easily reuse all gameplay, models, engine, etc of Sword/Shield, make a new game based on ShSw and sell it as a full price game. It makes more sense in a business perspective, at least in the current market



Yeah there definitely is not gonna be like a previous gen remake like wrapped into a DLC for Sw/Sh. That'd make wayyyyyy less money than doing an actual remake.



IcaroRibeiro said:

If they sell it as new DLC it will make much less buzz than a new game. People who don't care for gen 8 and wants to play Gen 4 due to nostalgia will need to buy Sw/Sh before and this alienate them. Nintendo can easily reuse all gameplay, models, engine, etc of Sword/Shield, make a new game based on ShSw and sell it as a full price game. It makes more sense in a business perspective, at least in the current market

I'd bet you money that even as a DLC it'll create just as much buzz plus business is also flexible market it as a famous region being added and in case some people didn't notice the target audience aren't the people who have nostalgia it's younger new audiences they're the ones who make up the bulk that's why even with the Dexit noise some people were making it still sold 16m in two months they're not trying to recreate the childhood of older generations they're creating the childhood of newer ones alienating the nostalgia of the former is not their concern.

As mentioned business is flexible having one central game that is supported with new content with the content coinciding with the media side of the franchise is just as viable if not more so.



Wyrdness said:
burninmylight said:

I highly doubt that The Pokemon Company would greenlight the idea of remaking an entire region in full HD 3D, only to sell it at the price of an expansion and miss out on the marketing opportunities you get with a brand new game.

The new areas and content that are coming to Sword and Shield are a fraction of what Gen IV offered.

Except DLC now days is fast becoming as good as a new game I can see them green lighting it because the lower expansion price is made up by the fact that as an expansion people have had to purchase the base game so they make up money that way as it pushes Sw/Sh sales up. Rather than have a new game they'd have one central game that is supported this gives the game more staying power they've already forgone a third version in favour of supporting the game so I don't see why not.

OK, then would you kindly list some examples of major retail/AAA games that released, and then later had DLC packs/extensions released that were just as large in size and content as the original game? The closest thing I can think of is Xenoblade 2's Torna: The Golden Country. It also released at 2/3rds the price. I haven't actually played XBC2 yet, and I don't know the full details behind Torna, but I do know that you can buy it completely independent of XBC2, even on cart.

With your idea, the Gen 4 remake would be needlessly locked behind an additional paywall in the form of a completely separate game. Not only would someone have to purchase Sword/Shield to get to the Sinnoh games, but if they purposefully avoided Sword/Shield because it just wasn't appealing, then guess what? They are SOL and now have to trudge through that game just to get to the one they want.

That is completely asinine.



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I think the Switch will get its own 2D Mario and that could probably hit 20 mill+ ... but after that the list gets small. Maybe the next mainline Pokemon?

BOTW2 will sell a lot, but probably not as much as BOTW1.

Games that come in the 2nd half of the product cycle simply don't have as much of a runway to sell either. Games released in 2021 or 2022 aren't going to have a 4-5 year window to sell.



burninmylight said:

OK, then would you kindly list some examples of major retail/AAA games that released, and then later had DLC packs/extensions released that were just as large in size and content as the original game? The closest thing I can think of is Xenoblade 2's Torna: The Golden Country. It also released at 2/3rds the price. I haven't actually played XBC2 yet, and I don't know the full details behind Torna, but I do know that you can buy it completely independent of XBC2, even on cart.

With your idea, the Gen 4 remake would be needlessly locked behind an additional paywall in the form of a completely separate game. Not only would someone have to purchase Sword/Shield to get to the Sinnoh games, but if they purposefully avoided Sword/Shield because it just wasn't appealing, then guess what? They are SOL and now have to trudge through that game just to get to the one they want.

That is completely asinine.

Skyrim Dragonborn, Baldur's Gate Throne of Bhaal, Bloodborne Old Hunters in fact Soulsborne games do this often, Monster Hunter World, Half Life 2: Episode 1 and 2 (even the original HL had Blue Shift and Opposing Force), NSMBU in NSLU, TW3 Blood and Wine etc... It's not a new concept it's been around for decades.

The last part of your post is nothing but ranting tbh if someone didn't find Sw/Sh appealing then it's clear they're not part of the people GF would be aiming for the's also such a concept as adding to title to make increase the appeal the same argument you used here someone else was using against DLC and that a third version would be better well guess what we got DLC.



Wyrdness said:

Skyrim Dragonborn, Baldur's Gate Throne of Bhaal, Bloodborne Old Hunters in fact Soulsborne games do this often, Monster Hunter World, Half Life 2: Episode 1 and 2 (even the original HL had Blue Shift and Opposing Force), NSMBU in NSLU, TW3 Blood and Wine etc... It's not a new concept it's been around for decades.

The last part of your post is nothing but ranting tbh if someone didn't find Sw/Sh appealing then it's clear they're not part of the people GF would be aiming for the's also such a concept as adding to title to make increase the appeal the same argument you used here someone else was using against DLC and that a third version would be better well guess what we got DLC.

Third versions sells 40%, sometimes even less, than the original version. It's almost the same game. That's why they are doing a DLC route instead, with half of the price of the original game and trying to make the current game alive, the third version also always ended completely killing the original version, that's how XY enjoyed much better legs than most of the mainline games. It's most like a third version replace some the sales of the original game with potential new buyers. A DLC won't do that

A remake though can sell 80-90% of a main entry. Unless they sell a 4th gen DLC will be sold by a full 60 dollars price I don't see how beneficial it will be for Gamefreak give up a possible 20 million seller remake for a DLC that I doubt half of the owners of the original SwSh will pay for 

Just to ending my point, this Pokemon DLC was announced quite a while ago and I'm seeing a major buzz around it, not even close to that. Do you have any sources where I can check how much DLC of the games you're talking about sold compared to the original entry?



IcaroRibeiro said:

Third versions sells 40%, sometimes even less, than the original version. It's almost the same game. That's why they are doing a DLC route instead, with half of the price of the original game and trying to make the current game alive, the third version also always ended completely killing the original version, that's how XY enjoyed much better legs than most of the mainline games. It's most like a third version replace some the sales of the original game with potential new buyers. A DLC won't do that

A remake though can sell 80-90% of a main entry. Unless they sell a 4th gen DLC will be sold by a full 60 dollars price I don't see how beneficial it will be for Gamefreak give up a possible 20 million seller remake for a DLC that I doubt half of the owners of the original SwSh will pay for 

Just to ending my point, this Pokemon DLC was announced quite a while ago and I'm seeing a major buzz around it, not even close to that. Do you have any sources where I can check how much DLC of the games you're talking about sold compared to the original entry?

Because you're looking at it from only one business perspective you're fixated on the full price part when ironically expansion DLCs have been common for decades to get the most out of one installment hence why season passes are so common today The Witcher 3 when B&W released along with a GOTY version that included it out grossed some of the biggest games in 2017 two years after it released (link below) which debunks your claim a DLC can't bring in new buyers as it made TW3 the second best selling PC title on Steam the is a business model of putting out one powerful central title that keeps selling due to increasing appeal through content.

https://www.pcgamer.com/the-witcher-3-outgrossed-some-of-2017s-biggest-games-because-its-just-that-good/



Wyrdness said:

Because you're looking at it from only one business perspective you're fixated on the full price part when ironically expansion DLCs have been common for decades to get the most out of one installment hence why season passes are so common today The Witcher 3 when B&W released along with a GOTY version that included it out grossed some of the biggest games in 2017 two years after it released (link below) which debunks your claim a DLC can't bring in new buyers as it made TW3 the second best selling PC title on Steam the is a business model of putting out one powerful central title that keeps selling due to increasing appeal through content.

https://www.pcgamer.com/the-witcher-3-outgrossed-some-of-2017s-biggest-games-because-its-just-that-good/

Of course DLC can bring new buyers, that's literally the reason why Nintendo is just releasing one for Pokemon Sword/Shield. What I don't understand is why the hell do you think a DLC will bring MORE new buyers than a new game

Give me one reason for Game Freak to release 4th gen as DLC and not a brand new game. Pokemon ORAS sold more than two times the number of USUM. People who bought a main entry like Sword and Shield are much more prone to buy a 4th gen remake than a 8th deluxe version period, that was proved three times already in pokemon history. So, since a 3rd version potential sales is at best 40% of the standard and when the 3rd version came out people just stop buying the standard, what Game Freak do? Easy, make people buy always the standard not releasing a new version + make people who already own the standard buy the DLC

A remake isn't just the same thing, it just isn't

- First, the remake won't decrease mainline entry sales power because it's a completely different game, it was proven when comparing XY and ORAS sales performance. Indeed the effect was kinda the opposite, the publicity and marketing of remake bring more buyers for the standard 

- Second, the remake can sell almost as much as the standard game, it means this 4th gen DLC will need to sell another 19-20 million copies (I'm guessing 22 mi lifetime for SwSh) and be sold for 60 USD to be as profitable as a new game, OR this DLC need to make SwSh sales explode for something around 32-33 million (AKA been likely the best selling game on Switch) and at least 30% of these 33 million buy the DLC as well (and still paying 60 bucks on that)

- Third, a DLC with a FULL content for 4th gen, I mean, the 100% Sinnoh campaign (which by the way is two times bigger than Sword/Shield), with the full map, the same pokemons, the same story, same post game, etc, etc will be just as expensive to make as a new game, so what's the point? 

I won't even make further comments about your comparison with The Witcher because I don't want to bash Pokemon games more than I usually do, but a friendly reminder these don't share by any means the same level of prestige as must-be feeling buy new gamers, unless this magical DLC turn things around I can't see how a Pokemon game in their current structure can have this insane Mario Kart 8 level of stability in sales  

Last edited by IcaroRibeiro - on 23 April 2020