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Forums - Politics - Official 2020 US Presidential Election Thread

EricHiggin said:
Machiavellian said:

Well its a deal breaker in that he is now in CORVID lockdown for 2 weeks with 4 to go.  No rallies, no debates and the last thing he said getting played not to his benefit.  The thing is people hating a president never changes the people who support a president.  People wishing for Trump demise isn't going to suddenly turn a large group that was going to vote for Biden into Trump loving citizens.  That's a fantasy, what will change people minds is if they lose confidence in the person they are voting for.  

What I find interesting is this mod blaming you are doing.  Oh he mod asked the president a question so why should he cater to him.  Not sure where this is coming from but mod blaming for a question the president could not give a concise answer to the viewing public is still the President failure.  Trying to blame the mod for asking him a question he could not answer successfully just makes the President look bad.  I have seen this line of thinking from other conservatives but it doesn't hold water.  The president is not in the debate to please the mod, he is there to answer questions and debate his opponent.  The thing is the Mod gave Trump a very easy question and it should have been right in his hip pocket to answer with conviction.  You are trying to turn the question around as if it was some huge tough question where it could trip up any person.  Condemning any hate group just like he condemns Antifa and BLM he should not have to even think about it.

I agree the debate sucked but that was mostly due to all the interruptions and talking out of turn.  Talking over the mod and basically making an ass of himself was mostly done by the President.  Either way its over, I agree the impact will be slight, but I also believe the President gained no ground which for him is a lost especially now.

Undecided voters are a small group apparently. If you're undecided now, what else will it take to cause you to decide or refrain? The little things?

The moderator is there to ask useful questions on behalf of the people. Trump and Biden are basically just two equal everyday candidates at that point. If the mod does a terrible job, then it's a problem, just like if the Prez does a terrible job, because they are there on behalf of the people.

Either the mod allows rebuttals and bickering or doesn't. If you will or won't, you need to make that clear and don't change on the fly. You create sections with specific rules if you want an assortment. You also don't side with either candidate at any point. If the candidates get out of line you put your foot down immediately. If you can't do that you've failed the people. That's why the first debate was terrible and why there are 3 debates with different mods.

Undecided voters are the only new votes he is going to get.  If you believe he will turn around people that have already made up their mind well that is a fantasy.  I have enough friends on both side of the political spectrum to know that once people have made their mind up, it takes an act of GOD to change it.  This is why it the debate is really something the President has to leverage more than Biden.  

As for the debate, lets not act like you do not know how the format works.  Yes you can rebuttal, after the person has finish speaking.  No, we do not want to hear someone interrupt the other person until they have completed what they are saying.  This is not an argument but a debate and the rules are clear to everyone.  Also at each debate, all mods tell each candidate the rules before the debate begin so lets not act like everything was a free for all at the beginning. The President decided like he always does that rules do not apply to him and HE made the debate a complete crap show since he would not stop interrupting or shut up when it was not his turn.

Last but not least, just because you feel the mod sided with one side or another is just your opinion.  Most times people who feel the other candidate did well when theirs did not they always blame the mod and that is exactly what you are doing.



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As of now, it still seems like there will be an election between Trump and Biden a month from now. So, lets look at some polls.

Zogby analytics has Biden up by only two. But, Zogby tends to have wonky results and questionable methods.

Sienna/NY Times has Biden up by 7. This is down 2 points from their last poll, but this one included third parties. Considering that and the margin of error, it's pretty consistent. The Times also has Biden up by 5 in Florida. That's significant. Recent polls had been showing Biden's lead increasing in Florida, but this is the first very highly rated poll to confirm it.

Losing either Florida or Pennsylvania means that Trump's chances are basically nil. And Trump is obviously in a poor position to take aggressive actions to change the trajectory of the election.



Runa216 said:
KLXVER said:

Well maybe if you said that once in a while, it would be easier to look at you as a person and not some liberal robot. Maybe criticize BLM and Antifa when they are burning down cities and looting. And not shifting the blame away from them. I support equality for all races and genders. I support the LGBTQ community and I think feminism is fine, but I will absolutely call them out when they cross the line. Lines like bullying people who doesnt see everything 100% their way. Like J.K. Rowling. She has an opinion and people should either accept that or try to educate her if they think she is wrong. Not cancel her and call her horrific names. Im never solely on one side. Although it may seem like it here since Im mostly talking to people who doesnt agree with me on many things.

Well at least you did show me another side of you now, so that is appreciated.

That's the thing, I've BEEN saying this since the beginning and didn't really feel the need to clarify until recently because anyone who uses common sense should understand the base concept that not everything is binary. I felt it should be pretty obvious that supporting something doesn't mean I support the worst of it or do so regardless of external or internal factors. 

And I won't condemn BLM or Antifa because neither of those movements are centralized or run by a single group or individual. Hating BLM because there has been damage done on BLM protestors is like hating subway because JAred's a pedo. The Antifa and BLM protestors who are doing damage are the outliers, not the primary folks responsible. Fullstop. I am not going to condemn a group because a small group is representing them poorly. 

Just like I'm not going to hate gay people because some gay folks are super flamboyant and obnoxious. 

Just like I'm not going to hate feminists because a small subset of feminists also hate men. 

Just like I'm not going to hate muslims because extremists do terrorism (This is true of ALL religions)

Just like I'm not going to hate women for whatever reason people supposedly hate women.

Just like I'm not going to hate black or hispanic or asian people when one of them commits a crime.

Every single one of these examples, up to and including your stance on BLM and Antifa, are examples of binary extremes. a few outliers did a bad thing and that justifies your hatred for the whole group, that predetermined hatred based on politics. It's not based on reality or the numbers, it's an excuse. Everyone does it, which is why the term 'everyone's a little bit racist sometimes' is a thing (Thank you Avenue Q). The key is to identify it and fix it. Everyone makes mistakes, but a person's character determines how they respond to it, how they learn from it, and how they grow afterwards. 

Until you accept that you don't hate BLM, you just hate the tiny pockets of people making it look bad, I am not convinced there's much room for a constructive discussion on the matter. Until you accept that Antifa isn't some terrorist group but the concept of being anti-fascism, I fear the same. Just because someone does something bad in the name of Antifa doesn't make Antifa bad any more than how a few white dudes with AK-47s shooting up a gay bar in the name of jesus makes Christianity bad. 

You have not been saying this. You have mostly insulted people who doesnt agree with you or isnt as enlightened as you think you are. 

There is a lot to criticize BLM over. The name is something pretty much everyone agrees with. However they raise millions of dollars and not a single cent goes to the black community who could use that money. It goes to fund Joe Biden and several other democrats campaigns. Mostly rich white people. They are about defunding the police, reparations for themselves and making white people give up their stuff for the most part. They survive because of white guilt. There are plenty of other groups in America who actually cares and wants to help the black community. Ill listen to them and not groups demanding justice for criminals while innocent people are starving. 

The moment you can give me a single example of anything good Antifa has ever done for anyone, I might entertain the idea of talking more about that hate filled group. 

You are not better than anyone here just because you focus more on the good things and downplay the bad. It might help you sleep at night, but you are just a guy saying he supports this and that while actually not doing a damn thing but insulting others who doesnt agree with you on forums. Go and march in the streets or donate your paycheck to these groups instead of trying to make others look bad on the internet.   



KLXVER said:

You have not been saying this. You have mostly insulted people who doesnt agree with you or isnt as enlightened as you think you are. 

There is a lot to criticize BLM over. The name is something pretty much everyone agrees with. However they raise millions of dollars and not a single cent goes to the black community who could use that money. It goes to fund Joe Biden and several other democrats campaigns. Mostly rich white people. They are about defunding the police, reparations for themselves and making white people give up their stuff for the most part. They survive because of white guilt. There are plenty of other groups in America who actually cares and wants to help the black community. Ill listen to them and not groups demanding justice for criminals while innocent people are starving. 

The moment you can give me a single example of anything good Antifa has ever done for anyone, I might entertain the idea of talking more about that hate filled group. 

You are not better than anyone here just because you focus more on the good things and downplay the bad. It might help you sleep at night, but you are just a guy saying he supports this and that while actually not doing a damn thing but insulting others who doesnt agree with you on forums. Go and march in the streets or donate your paycheck to these groups instead of trying to make others look bad on the internet.   

Wow, alright, here we go. 

Yes I have. No I haven't. No there isn't. Sure, whatever. Citation needed. What the fuck are you talking about? Citation needed. You're misrepresenting the issue. No they don't. True, I'll give you that. No you won't. No you won't, even if I do. Yes I am for that exact reason. Wrong again. I do march and have donated. 

Almost everything you said was entirely wrong, misleading, or based on your own misinterpretation of facts. Be better. We've been over this. I thought you said you didn't care about politics and were gonna stay out of the conversation. So much of your opinion is predicated on lies of hear-say. 



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Runa216 said:
KLXVER said:

You have not been saying this. You have mostly insulted people who doesnt agree with you or isnt as enlightened as you think you are. 

There is a lot to criticize BLM over. The name is something pretty much everyone agrees with. However they raise millions of dollars and not a single cent goes to the black community who could use that money. It goes to fund Joe Biden and several other democrats campaigns. Mostly rich white people. They are about defunding the police, reparations for themselves and making white people give up their stuff for the most part. They survive because of white guilt. There are plenty of other groups in America who actually cares and wants to help the black community. Ill listen to them and not groups demanding justice for criminals while innocent people are starving. 

The moment you can give me a single example of anything good Antifa has ever done for anyone, I might entertain the idea of talking more about that hate filled group. 

You are not better than anyone here just because you focus more on the good things and downplay the bad. It might help you sleep at night, but you are just a guy saying he supports this and that while actually not doing a damn thing but insulting others who doesnt agree with you on forums. Go and march in the streets or donate your paycheck to these groups instead of trying to make others look bad on the internet.   

Wow, alright, here we go. 

Yes I have. No I haven't. No there isn't. Sure, whatever. Citation needed. What the fuck are you talking about? Citation needed. You're misrepresenting the issue. No they don't. True, I'll give you that. No you won't. No you won't, even if I do. Yes I am for that exact reason. Wrong again. I do march and have donated. 

Almost everything you said was entirely wrong, misleading, or based on your own misinterpretation of facts. Be better. We've been over this. I thought you said you didn't care about politics and were gonna stay out of the conversation. So much of your opinion is predicated on lies of hear-say. 

"Yes, I have" "No, they dont" "WTF" "No you wont" wow what a way with words you have. The fact that you think your opinion is fact just says it all. You are impossible to talk to. So lets just end it here. We dont like each other, so lets just agree to disagree.(Even though you think Im the devil incarnate and my opinions are evil) Thanks for the Pears and Cherries though. I forgot that was you.



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KLXVER said:
Runa216 said:

Wow, alright, here we go. 

Yes I have. No I haven't. No there isn't. Sure, whatever. Citation needed. What the fuck are you talking about? Citation needed. You're misrepresenting the issue. No they don't. True, I'll give you that. No you won't. No you won't, even if I do. Yes I am for that exact reason. Wrong again. I do march and have donated. 

Almost everything you said was entirely wrong, misleading, or based on your own misinterpretation of facts. Be better. We've been over this. I thought you said you didn't care about politics and were gonna stay out of the conversation. So much of your opinion is predicated on lies of hear-say. 

"Yes, I have" "No, they dont" "WTF" "No you wont" wow what a way with words you have. The fact that you think your opinion is fact just says it all. You are impossible to talk to. So lets just end it here. We dont like each other, so lets just agree to disagree.(Even though you think Im the devil incarnate and my opinions are evil) Thanks for the Pears and Cherries though. I forgot that was you.

Okay! 



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KLXVER said:
Runa216 said:

That's the thing, I've BEEN saying this since the beginning and didn't really feel the need to clarify until recently because anyone who uses common sense should understand the base concept that not everything is binary. I felt it should be pretty obvious that supporting something doesn't mean I support the worst of it or do so regardless of external or internal factors. 

And I won't condemn BLM or Antifa because neither of those movements are centralized or run by a single group or individual. Hating BLM because there has been damage done on BLM protestors is like hating subway because JAred's a pedo. The Antifa and BLM protestors who are doing damage are the outliers, not the primary folks responsible. Fullstop. I am not going to condemn a group because a small group is representing them poorly. 

Just like I'm not going to hate gay people because some gay folks are super flamboyant and obnoxious. 

Just like I'm not going to hate feminists because a small subset of feminists also hate men. 

Just like I'm not going to hate muslims because extremists do terrorism (This is true of ALL religions)

Just like I'm not going to hate women for whatever reason people supposedly hate women.

Just like I'm not going to hate black or hispanic or asian people when one of them commits a crime.

Every single one of these examples, up to and including your stance on BLM and Antifa, are examples of binary extremes. a few outliers did a bad thing and that justifies your hatred for the whole group, that predetermined hatred based on politics. It's not based on reality or the numbers, it's an excuse. Everyone does it, which is why the term 'everyone's a little bit racist sometimes' is a thing (Thank you Avenue Q). The key is to identify it and fix it. Everyone makes mistakes, but a person's character determines how they respond to it, how they learn from it, and how they grow afterwards. 

Until you accept that you don't hate BLM, you just hate the tiny pockets of people making it look bad, I am not convinced there's much room for a constructive discussion on the matter. Until you accept that Antifa isn't some terrorist group but the concept of being anti-fascism, I fear the same. Just because someone does something bad in the name of Antifa doesn't make Antifa bad any more than how a few white dudes with AK-47s shooting up a gay bar in the name of jesus makes Christianity bad. 

You have not been saying this. You have mostly insulted people who doesnt agree with you or isnt as enlightened as you think you are. 

There is a lot to criticize BLM over. The name is something pretty much everyone agrees with. However they raise millions of dollars and not a single cent goes to the black community who could use that money. It goes to fund Joe Biden and several other democrats campaigns. Mostly rich white people. They are about defunding the police, reparations for themselves and making white people give up their stuff for the most part. They survive because of white guilt. There are plenty of other groups in America who actually cares and wants to help the black community. Ill listen to them and not groups demanding justice for criminals while innocent people are starving. 

The moment you can give me a single example of anything good Antifa has ever done for anyone, I might entertain the idea of talking more about that hate filled group. 

You are not better than anyone here just because you focus more on the good things and downplay the bad. It might help you sleep at night, but you are just a guy saying he supports this and that while actually not doing a damn thing but insulting others who doesnt agree with you on forums. Go and march in the streets or donate your paycheck to these groups instead of trying to make others look bad on the internet.   

What evidence do you have that all the money donated to BLM goes to funding democrat campaigns instead of helping black communities?



...

Torillian said:
KLXVER said:

You have not been saying this. You have mostly insulted people who doesnt agree with you or isnt as enlightened as you think you are. 

There is a lot to criticize BLM over. The name is something pretty much everyone agrees with. However they raise millions of dollars and not a single cent goes to the black community who could use that money. It goes to fund Joe Biden and several other democrats campaigns. Mostly rich white people. They are about defunding the police, reparations for themselves and making white people give up their stuff for the most part. They survive because of white guilt. There are plenty of other groups in America who actually cares and wants to help the black community. Ill listen to them and not groups demanding justice for criminals while innocent people are starving. 

The moment you can give me a single example of anything good Antifa has ever done for anyone, I might entertain the idea of talking more about that hate filled group. 

You are not better than anyone here just because you focus more on the good things and downplay the bad. It might help you sleep at night, but you are just a guy saying he supports this and that while actually not doing a damn thing but insulting others who doesnt agree with you on forums. Go and march in the streets or donate your paycheck to these groups instead of trying to make others look bad on the internet.   

What evidence do you have that all the money donated to BLM goes to funding democrat campaigns instead of helping black communities?

Try and donate via their website and it links you to Act Blue.  https://support.actblue.com/donors/help/about-actblue/



KLXVER said:
Torillian said:

What evidence do you have that all the money donated to BLM goes to funding democrat campaigns instead of helping black communities?

Try and donate via their website and it links you to Act Blue.  https://support.actblue.com/donors/help/about-actblue/

Which is a way progressive organizations get donations. That money goes to BLM, it does not go to campaigns. The campaigns themselves get donations through Act Blue. Act Blue is like paypal, just a middle man. 

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/06/donations-to-black-lives-matter-group-dont-go-to-dnc/

Edit: and from the link you provided.

https://support.actblue.com/donors/about-actblue/how-do-i-know-my-money-is-going-to-the-candidate-or-organization-i-donated-to/



...

Torillian said:
KLXVER said:

Try and donate via their website and it links you to Act Blue.  https://support.actblue.com/donors/help/about-actblue/

Which is a way progressive organizations get donations. That money goes to BLM, it does not go to campaigns. The campaigns themselves get donations through Act Blue. Act Blue is like paypal, just a middle man. 

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/06/donations-to-black-lives-matter-group-dont-go-to-dnc/

Edit: and from the link you provided.

https://support.actblue.com/donors/about-actblue/how-do-i-know-my-money-is-going-to-the-candidate-or-organization-i-donated-to/

Thats mainly what its for. To support democratic campaigns. If you have sources that say BLM donates millions to poor neighborhoods or programs that help people, then please let me know.