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Forums - Politics Discussion - Official 2020 US Presidential Election Thread

KLXVER said:
JWeinCom said:

Well, I think you should believe things when you have sufficient evidence to believe them. If you actually care about what is true.

I have sufficient evidence. More than you have of the opposite.

Since somehow this was missed, I'll post it again:

In regards to your claims regarding BLM money going from ActBlue Charities to Democratic campaigns, it legally isn't allowed to. If you head over to the BLM donation page, you will see that it includes a statement regarding ActBlue Charities at the bottom. This is a separate part of ActBlue which acts in a different manner than the PAC part of ActBlue. You can even see the disclaimer at the bottom of the page which indicates that ActBlue Charities is a 501c3 organization.

(This distinction is further explained by ActBlue here: https://support.actblue.com/donors/about-actblue/what-is-the-difference-between-actblue-actblue-civics-ab-charities-and-actblue-technical-services/ )

501c3 organizations are heavily regulated. One of those regulations is that contributions to political campaigns are not allowed. As such, the money cannot legally travel from ActBlue Charities to any political campaign.

As such, any insinuation that the money donated to BLM is going from ActBlue Charities to any Democratic campaign is an accusation that ActBlue Charities and BLM are violating the law, and extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence.

As for where the money goes once it gets to BLM, BLM for several years (2016-July 2020) partnered with another 501c3 organization called Thousand Currents through a fiscal sponsorship. What this essentially means is that the money went from ActBlue Charities (a 501c3 organization), to Thousand Currents (another 501c3 organization) and where the money went to was decided from there. That means both of the organizations handling BLM money were legally prevented from making campaign contributions. 

As of July 2020, BLM has partnered with another organization called Tides and, spoiler, it is also a 501c3 organization.



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gergroy said:
KLXVER said:

Ok, so I failed. I dont care what you think. I believe what I believe. 

This is pretty much the problem with politics, especially in the age of trump.  People believe everything that supports their position or political party, regardless of whether it is true or not.  Facts no longer matter, just what people believe.  A problem that has been severely compounded by social media over the last decade as misinformation is thrown out by campaigns as well as foreign powers...

You take the evidence you see and you make your opinion around that if you can. Sometimes its not enough to form an opinion and sometimes it is. Just like people thinking Trump is a racist. No real proof of that imo, but some think they have the evidence and its enough for them to form that opinion. Thats usually how it works.



sundin13 said:
KLXVER said:

I have sufficient evidence. More than you have of the opposite.

Since somehow this was missed, I'll post it again:

In regards to your claims regarding BLM money going from ActBlue Charities to Democratic campaigns, it legally isn't allowed to. If you head over to the BLM donation page, you will see that it includes a statement regarding ActBlue Charities at the bottom. This is a separate part of ActBlue which acts in a different manner than the PAC part of ActBlue. You can even see the disclaimer at the bottom of the page which indicates that ActBlue Charities is a 501c3 organization.

(This distinction is further explained by ActBlue here: https://support.actblue.com/donors/about-actblue/what-is-the-difference-between-actblue-actblue-civics-ab-charities-and-actblue-technical-services/ )

501c3 organizations are heavily regulated. One of those regulations is that contributions to political campaigns are not allowed. As such, the money cannot legally travel from ActBlue Charities to any political campaign.

As such, any insinuation that the money donated to BLM is going from ActBlue Charities to any Democratic campaign is an accusation that ActBlue Charities and BLM are violating the law, and extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence.

As for where the money goes once it gets to BLM, BLM for several years (2016-July 2020) partnered with another 501c3 organization called Thousand Currents through a fiscal sponsorship. What this essentially means is that the money went from ActBlue Charities (a 501c3 organization), to Thousand Currents (another 501c3 organization) and where the money went to was decided from there. That means both of the organizations handling BLM money were legally prevented from making campaign contributions. 

As of July 2020, BLM has partnered with another organization called Tides and, spoiler, it is also a 501c3 organization.

Yes, yes I see you. And yes, I accuse them.



KLXVER said:
gergroy said:

This is pretty much the problem with politics, especially in the age of trump.  People believe everything that supports their position or political party, regardless of whether it is true or not.  Facts no longer matter, just what people believe.  A problem that has been severely compounded by social media over the last decade as misinformation is thrown out by campaigns as well as foreign powers...

You take the evidence you see and you make your opinion around that if you can. Sometimes its not enough to form an opinion and sometimes it is. Just like people thinking Trump is a racist. No real proof of that imo, but some think they have the evidence and its enough for them to form that opinion. Thats usually how it works.

Yeah, like I said, it’s the problem with politics.  People form these very strong opinions on misinformation.  Both sides are certainly guilty of it.  



KLXVER said:
JWeinCom said:

Well, I think you should believe things when you have sufficient evidence to believe them. If you actually care about what is true.

I have sufficient evidence. More than you have of the opposite.

I'm sorry, you simply have no understanding on how logic and the burden of proof work.

You are the one who made a claim. You have to support it. I didn't make any claim about BLM or how their money is spent, because I don't know. Accordingly, I don't have to prove anything.

If I claimed that you murdered and sodomized Jaleel White last night, I have to present evidence for that. I couldn't just say "well you don't have evidence of the opposite". 

You have provided no evidence. Just allegations. Which are worthless. 



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KLXVER said:
sundin13 said:

Since somehow this was missed, I'll post it again:

In regards to your claims regarding BLM money going from ActBlue Charities to Democratic campaigns, it legally isn't allowed to. If you head over to the BLM donation page, you will see that it includes a statement regarding ActBlue Charities at the bottom. This is a separate part of ActBlue which acts in a different manner than the PAC part of ActBlue. You can even see the disclaimer at the bottom of the page which indicates that ActBlue Charities is a 501c3 organization.

(This distinction is further explained by ActBlue here: https://support.actblue.com/donors/about-actblue/what-is-the-difference-between-actblue-actblue-civics-ab-charities-and-actblue-technical-services/ )

501c3 organizations are heavily regulated. One of those regulations is that contributions to political campaigns are not allowed. As such, the money cannot legally travel from ActBlue Charities to any political campaign.

As such, any insinuation that the money donated to BLM is going from ActBlue Charities to any Democratic campaign is an accusation that ActBlue Charities and BLM are violating the law, and extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence.

As for where the money goes once it gets to BLM, BLM for several years (2016-July 2020) partnered with another 501c3 organization called Thousand Currents through a fiscal sponsorship. What this essentially means is that the money went from ActBlue Charities (a 501c3 organization), to Thousand Currents (another 501c3 organization) and where the money went to was decided from there. That means both of the organizations handling BLM money were legally prevented from making campaign contributions. 

As of July 2020, BLM has partnered with another organization called Tides and, spoiler, it is also a 501c3 organization.

Yes, yes I see you. And yes, I accuse them.

Interesting. I assumed you were just making a somewhat ignorant (although not unreasonable) accusation regarding how money was changing hands, but accusing not one, not two, but three large non-profits of both tax fraud and campaign finance violations, despite the fact that all of the organizations publicly post several financial statements each year, and are regularly independently audited...

That's quite a claim you got there, especially considering that the only evidence you have provided was ActBlue's FAQ page...



JWeinCom said:
KLXVER said:

I have sufficient evidence. More than you have of the opposite.

I'm sorry, you simply have no understanding on how logic and the burden of proof work.

You are the one who made a claim. You have to support it. I didn't make any claim about BLM or how their money is spent, because I don't know. Accordingly, I don't have to prove anything.

If I claimed that you murdered and sodomized Jaleel White last night, I have to present evidence for that. I couldn't just say "well you don't have evidence of the opposite". 

You have provided no evidence. Just allegations. Which are worthless. 

Well if I was in the area and had blood on my hands, then maybe you would believe I did it...?



sundin13 said:
KLXVER said:

Yes, yes I see you. And yes, I accuse them.

Interesting. I assumed you were just making a somewhat ignorant (although not unreasonable) accusation regarding how money was changing hands, but accusing not one, not two, but three large non-profits of both tax fraud and campaign finance violations, despite the fact that all of the organizations publicly post several financial statements each year, and are regularly independently audited...

That's quite a claim you got there, especially considering that the only evidence you have provided was ActBlue's FAQ page...

And BLM linking to it. And them not being transparent of where the money is going. And the fact that democrats wont condemn anything they do. Its enough for me to form that opinion. Maybe its not enough for you, but it is for me. I wont do anything about it and if they ever show us the receipts and Im wrong, then Ill accept that. But for now thats how I see the matter. I dont trust them one bit.



KLXVER said:
JWeinCom said:

I'm sorry, you simply have no understanding on how logic and the burden of proof work.

You are the one who made a claim. You have to support it. I didn't make any claim about BLM or how their money is spent, because I don't know. Accordingly, I don't have to prove anything.

If I claimed that you murdered and sodomized Jaleel White last night, I have to present evidence for that. I couldn't just say "well you don't have evidence of the opposite". 

You have provided no evidence. Just allegations. Which are worthless. 

Well if I was in the area and had blood on my hands, then maybe you would believe I did it...?

No, because I would need a lot more information, starting with whether Jaleel white is alive and if there's evidence he's been sodomized. That amount of evidence, which I would have to be the one to present, in no way justifies the conclusion that Jaleel White has been sodomized and murdered by you. I'm not going to assume everyone with bloody hands in the vicinity of Jaleel White murdered and sodomized him.

Likewise, you have not provided enough evidence to support your claim. The extent of your evidence is that they are affiliated with a charity that is not legally allowed to give to democratic campaigns, but is affiliated with a platform that does raise money for campaigns. That evidence sucks. At best it's a reason for us to maybe be suspicious, but you've went far beyond that. So you shouldn't be making the claim. And if you care about coming to justified conclusions, you shouldn't be believing it. 



JWeinCom said:
KLXVER said:

Well if I was in the area and had blood on my hands, then maybe you would believe I did it...?

No, because I would need a lot more information, starting with whether Jaleel white is alive and if there's evidence he's been sodomized. That amount of evidence, which I would have to be the one to present, in no way justifies the conclusion that Jaleel White has been sodomized and murdered by you. I'm not going to assume everyone with bloody hands in the vicinity of Jaleel White murdered and sodomized him.

Likewise, you have not provided enough evidence to support your claim. The extent of your evidence is that they are affiliated with a charity that is not legally allowed to give to democratic campaigns, but is affiliated with a platform that does raise money for campaigns. That evidence sucks. At best it's a reason for us to maybe be suspicious, but you've went far beyond that. So you shouldn't be making the claim. And if you care about coming to justified conclusions, you shouldn't be believing it. 

Ok