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Forums - Politics Discussion - Official 2020 US Presidential Election Thread

JWeinCom said:

Sienna/NY Times has Biden up by 7. This is down 2 points from their last poll, but this one included third parties. Considering that and the margin of error, it's pretty consistent. The Times also has Biden up by 5 in Florida. That's significant. Recent polls had been showing Biden's lead increasing in Florida, but this is the first very highly rated poll to confirm it.

Losing either Florida or Pennsylvania means that Trump's chances are basically nil. And Trump is obviously in a poor position to take aggressive actions to change the trajectory of the election.

Yeah, the Pennsylvania one has Jorgenson with 6% in the 18 - 44 group, which definitely isn't going to be the case. Trump's approval rating is under 13 points in that poll versus 10 in the previous one.

The Florida one seems particularly good since the sample was R+4. That should suffice to correct for the misfiring that happened back in 2018, where the state was basically the only place where polls understated Republican support and not the opposite.



 

 

 

 

 

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JWeinCom said:
KLXVER said:

So BLM getting the money and giving it to the DNC with the knowledge of Act Blue would make the IRS a part of it because...?

Because the IRS granted Act Blue charities 501c3 status, meaning they determined that they were not doing that, and Act Blue charities is required to make filings with the IRS each year to show that they are not doing that. The money then went to another company that also has 501c3 status which also couldn't give it to the DNC. You'd imagine if their corruption was so obvious that random VGChartz user figured out their scheme, then the IRS would certainly have sniffed them out and stripped them of their status. So why hasn't the IRS done just that? 

Because Americans would rather believe the conspiracy that fits their views rather than the obvious benign truth, as klxver has demonstrated rather repeatedly in this thread.  There really isn’t any point in debating him on it.  No matter what you say you aren’t going to change his mind.  The amount of confirmation bias in politics is toxic.  Too much for many to overcome.  They would rather believe the lie that fits their narrative then the truth.  It’s not just conservatives that suffer from this (although trump loyalists do seem to have this in greater numbers).



gergroy said:
JWeinCom said:

Because the IRS granted Act Blue charities 501c3 status, meaning they determined that they were not doing that, and Act Blue charities is required to make filings with the IRS each year to show that they are not doing that. The money then went to another company that also has 501c3 status which also couldn't give it to the DNC. You'd imagine if their corruption was so obvious that random VGChartz user figured out their scheme, then the IRS would certainly have sniffed them out and stripped them of their status. So why hasn't the IRS done just that? 

Because Americans would rather believe the conspiracy that fits their views rather than the obvious benign truth, as klxver has demonstrated rather repeatedly in this thread.  There really isn’t any point in debating him on it.  No matter what you say you aren’t going to change his mind.  The amount of confirmation bias in politics is toxic.  Too much for many to overcome.  They would rather believe the lie that fits their narrative then the truth.  It’s not just conservatives that suffer from this (although trump loyalists do seem to have this in greater numbers).

Well Im not a Trump loyalist. Also Im not American. I do kinda agree with you though. It is easier to believe something about someone if you already dislike them.



RolStoppable said:
sundin13 said:

Oh god, this is so dumb. I can't even...

Sometimes discussions reach a point where there are three options:

1. Ignorance
2. Idiocy
3. Trolling

Once the avenues of educating someone have been depleted, you can scratch point 1 from the list. Then you proceed to ask the person in question if it's 2 or 3.

its 4. Honesty



Machiavellian said:
EricHiggin said:

Undecided voters are a small group apparently. If you're undecided now, what else will it take to cause you to decide or refrain? The little things?

The moderator is there to ask useful questions on behalf of the people. Trump and Biden are basically just two equal everyday candidates at that point. If the mod does a terrible job, then it's a problem, just like if the Prez does a terrible job, because they are there on behalf of the people.

Either the mod allows rebuttals and bickering or doesn't. If you will or won't, you need to make that clear and don't change on the fly. You create sections with specific rules if you want an assortment. You also don't side with either candidate at any point. If the candidates get out of line you put your foot down immediately. If you can't do that you've failed the people. That's why the first debate was terrible and why there are 3 debates with different mods.

Undecided voters are the only new votes he is going to get.  If you believe he will turn around people that have already made up their mind well that is a fantasy.  I have enough friends on both side of the political spectrum to know that once people have made their mind up, it takes an act of GOD to change it.  This is why it the debate is really something the President has to leverage more than Biden.  

As for the debate, lets not act like you do not know how the format works.  Yes you can rebuttal, after the person has finish speaking.  No, we do not want to hear someone interrupt the other person until they have completed what they are saying.  This is not an argument but a debate and the rules are clear to everyone.  Also at each debate, all mods tell each candidate the rules before the debate begin so lets not act like everything was a free for all at the beginning. The President decided like he always does that rules do not apply to him and HE made the debate a complete crap show since he would not stop interrupting or shut up when it was not his turn.

Last but not least, just because you feel the mod sided with one side or another is just your opinion.  Most times people who feel the other candidate did well when theirs did not they always blame the mod and that is exactly what you are doing.

You already made this clear. Odds are if a Biden voter is going to change their mind, it's going to be refraining from voting by potentially losing confidence in Biden and you stated. What will it take by now if voters still haven't made up their mind by deciding or sitting it out? Seeing that the Prez is out of commission for a while hurts Trump from a presence perspective, but if in the meantime you're undecided and seeing his voter opposition cheering on his demise, or being instructed not to, well.

You must also then think anyone who breaks the law in anyway is entirely at fault I'd assume. The cops are always in the right based on the law and its rules? Everyone knows the format. The criminals who cry foul, the protestors, and at times rioters, are all solely to blame? If only we didn't always put complete blame on the law breakers and if we would at times give them warnings and second chances, maybe the system could be better. Maybe. Perhaps that's wrong and we need to crack down much harder?

I was just laying out the rules based on a proper format. I didn't say the mod sided with anyone there. I did make a point a few posts back now, about how the mod did leave out a question and reasonable response to Biden that would've equalized a question posed to Trump, but that was just one example of one portion. The mod also did side with Trump a few times. Doesn't matter who you side with, it's wrong, You don't take sides period.



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RolStoppable said:
KLXVER said:

its 4. Honesty

Based on what has been put on display here, I can certainly believe that.

Good. I dont care what you think of my views. I just hate being seen as dishonest.



KLXVER said:
JWeinCom said:

Because the IRS granted Act Blue charities 501c3 status, meaning they determined that they were not doing that, and Act Blue charities is required to make filings with the IRS each year to show that they are not doing that. The money then went to another company that also has 501c3 status which also couldn't give it to the DNC. You'd imagine if their corruption was so obvious that random VGChartz user figured out their scheme, then the IRS would certainly have sniffed them out and stripped them of their status. So why hasn't the IRS done just that? 

What does that have to do with anything? As soon as the money reached BLM they donated it to the DNC. Im not sure what you are saying. Youre saying that BLM dont get the money. They can never use any of it? Im confused....

Yeah. You're clearly confused about how this works, so maybe you shouldn't have jumped to an opinion yet.

Money that BLM raises through Act Blue charities currently go to Thousand Currents, another 501c(3). Thousand Currents is responsible for demonstrating to the IRS that the money does not ultimately go to political campaigns, or they lose their 501c(3) status. Thousand Currents has maintained 501c(3) status for 35 years. 

They can't just tell the IRS they gave money to BLM for "reasons" they'd have to explain what exactly it is being used for. If it is found that the money is going to the DNC, then Thousand Currents and Act Blue Charities would both be stripped of 501c(3) status.

Additionally, donations to the DNC have to be reported to the FEC. Donations can't come through Actblue charities, or Thousand Currents. BLM Global Network could make contributions, but I believe their only source of income currently is money raised through Act Blue Charities then given to Thousand Currents, so if money went from BLM Global Network to the DNC, that would be an obvious red flag. The FEC for its part reports that no money has been donated to the DNC from Thousand Currents, or BLM Global Network. Now, the money can go to officers of BLM for compensation who can do whatever they want with it at that point, but the maximum personal contribution to a political campaign is only 2800 dollars... So, if BLM wanted to try to get money to the DNC by distributing it to individuals they'd have to have like 5,000 people on their payroll all getting $2,800 from Thousand Currents and making the maximum contribution. That would be pretty sketchy looking, and pretty easy for the IRS to spot.

If the fraud was as obvious as you claim, that is something that should be picked up on. Particularly because Thousand Currents was audited in 2019 by the IRS. So the IRS did in fact look into their books and determined that they were not funneling money to the DNC either directly or indirectly. And Black Lives Matter is an actual corporation, so the IRS could have and presumably would have looked into their books as well.

So, again, the burden of proof goes to you. How exactly do you suggest that the money is getting from Act Blue Charities to the DNC without the IRS or FEC picking up on it? Either it didn't happen, or it did and the FBI willingly looked the other way.  

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/06/donations-to-black-lives-matter-group-dont-go-to-dnc/ 

KLXVER said:
RolStoppable said:

Sometimes discussions reach a point where there are three options:

1. Ignorance
2. Idiocy
3. Trolling

Once the avenues of educating someone have been depleted, you can scratch point 1 from the list. Then you proceed to ask the person in question if it's 2 or 3.

its 4. Honesty

That is not mutually exclusive to 1 and 2.

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 03 October 2020

JWeinCom said:
KLXVER said:

What does that have to do with anything? As soon as the money reached BLM they donated it to the DNC. Im not sure what you are saying. Youre saying that BLM dont get the money. They can never use any of it? Im confused....

Yeah. You're clearly confused about how this works, so maybe you shouldn't have jumped to an opinion yet.

Money that BLM raises through Act Blue charities currently go to Thousand Currents, another 501c(3) I believe. Thousand Currents is responsible for demonstrating to the IRS that the money does not ultimately go to political campaigns, or they lose their 501c(3) status. Thousand Currents has maintained 501c(3) status for 35 years. 

They can't just tell the IRS they gave money to BLM for "reasons" they'd have to explain what exactly it is being used for. If it is found that the money is going to the DNC, then Thousand Currents and Act Blue Charities would both be stripped of 501c(3) status.

Additionally, donations to the DNC have to be reported to the FEC. Donations can't come through Actblue charities, or Thousand Currents. BLM Global Network could make contributions, but I believe their only source of income currently is money raised through Act Blue Charities then given to Thousand Currents, so if money went from BLM Global Network to the DNC, that would be an obvious red flag. The FEC for its part reports that no money has been donated to the DNC from Thousand Currents, or BLM Global Network. Now, the money can go to officers of BLM for compensation who can do whatever they want with it at that point, but the maximum personal contribution to a political campaign is only 2800 dollars... So, if BLM wanted to try to get money to the DNC by distributing it to individuals they'd have to have like 5,000 people on their payroll all getting $2,800 from Thousand Currents and making the maximum contribution. That would be pretty sketchy looking, and pretty easy for the IRS to spot.

If the fraud was as obvious as you claim, that is something that should be picked up on. Particularly because Thousand Currents was audited in 2019 by the IRS. So the IRS did in fact look into their books and determined that they were not funneling money to the DNC either directly or indirectly. And Black Lives Matter is an actual corporation, so the IRS could have and presumably would have looked into their books as well.

So, again, the burden of proof goes to you. How exactly do you suggest that the money is getting from Act Blue Charities to the DNC without the IRS or FEC picking up on it?

KLXVER said:

its 4. Honesty

That is not mutually exclusive to 1 and 2.

Ok, well I was wrong then. Oh well. Now thats off my mind. Thanks.



KLXVER said:
JWeinCom said:

Yeah. You're clearly confused about how this works, so maybe you shouldn't have jumped to an opinion yet.

Money that BLM raises through Act Blue charities currently go to Thousand Currents, another 501c(3) I believe. Thousand Currents is responsible for demonstrating to the IRS that the money does not ultimately go to political campaigns, or they lose their 501c(3) status. Thousand Currents has maintained 501c(3) status for 35 years. 

They can't just tell the IRS they gave money to BLM for "reasons" they'd have to explain what exactly it is being used for. If it is found that the money is going to the DNC, then Thousand Currents and Act Blue Charities would both be stripped of 501c(3) status.

Additionally, donations to the DNC have to be reported to the FEC. Donations can't come through Actblue charities, or Thousand Currents. BLM Global Network could make contributions, but I believe their only source of income currently is money raised through Act Blue Charities then given to Thousand Currents, so if money went from BLM Global Network to the DNC, that would be an obvious red flag. The FEC for its part reports that no money has been donated to the DNC from Thousand Currents, or BLM Global Network. Now, the money can go to officers of BLM for compensation who can do whatever they want with it at that point, but the maximum personal contribution to a political campaign is only 2800 dollars... So, if BLM wanted to try to get money to the DNC by distributing it to individuals they'd have to have like 5,000 people on their payroll all getting $2,800 from Thousand Currents and making the maximum contribution. That would be pretty sketchy looking, and pretty easy for the IRS to spot.

If the fraud was as obvious as you claim, that is something that should be picked up on. Particularly because Thousand Currents was audited in 2019 by the IRS. So the IRS did in fact look into their books and determined that they were not funneling money to the DNC either directly or indirectly. And Black Lives Matter is an actual corporation, so the IRS could have and presumably would have looked into their books as well.

So, again, the burden of proof goes to you. How exactly do you suggest that the money is getting from Act Blue Charities to the DNC without the IRS or FEC picking up on it?

That is not mutually exclusive to 1 and 2.

Ok, well I was wrong then. Oh well. Now thats off my mind. Thanks.

Alright then. Glad you accepted the evidence when presented, but it would be even better to try and look into these things before coming to an opinion in the first place. Otherwise, there are going to be a lot of things you believe that are not true. 



JWeinCom said:
KLXVER said:

Ok, well I was wrong then. Oh well. Now thats off my mind. Thanks.

Alright then. Glad you accepted the evidence when presented, but it would be even better to try and look into these things before coming to an opinion in the first place. Otherwise, there are going to be a lot of things you believe that are not true. 

Im sure we`ll meet again. Im not a reader.