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Forums - Politics - Official 2020 US Presidential Election Thread

Cyran said:

The problem is phone exit polls have the same issue as pre-election polling and is much less reliable then in person exit polling.  You cant make the assumption that the exit polling done on the phone any more accurate then a pre-election poll.

To get a more accurate perspective I would wait for Pew's Validated Voter survey which is consider historically one of the best way to gauged what actually happened but it going to be awhile before that report is complete.  We talking summer of next year before Pew's would complete that study.  There probably be other deep dive studies around that time.

Fair enough! But I think there's already enough evidence available to suggest that the exit poll data is reasonably accurate, or at least certainly more so than any other survey data that's CURRENTLY available to us anyway.



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Jaicee said:
Cyran said:

The problem is phone exit polls have the same issue as pre-election polling and is much less reliable then in person exit polling.  You cant make the assumption that the exit polling done on the phone any more accurate then a pre-election poll.

To get a more accurate perspective I would wait for Pew's Validated Voter survey which is consider historically one of the best way to gauged what actually happened but it going to be awhile before that report is complete.  We talking summer of next year before Pew's would complete that study.  There probably be other deep dive studies around that time.

Fair enough! But I think there's already enough evidence available to suggest that the exit poll data is reasonably accurate, or at least certainly more so than any other survey data that's CURRENTLY available to us anyway.

Fair enough.  My biggest concern is while it look more accurate in the aggregate it very hard to know if that means it accurate in the demographic data.  



vivster said:
Jaicee said:

I haven't posted much here since before election day, as I've been mostly just waiting for the data to roll in before chiming in with thoughts. I think there's enough info now though to draw some definite conclusions.

-First of all, yes it's clear that Biden won and that this election will be seen as a net gain for the Democrats. However, it also wasn't a Democratic landslide. As of this writing, with approximately 97% of votes counted, Biden has gotten 50.9% of votes that have been tallied to Trump's 47.3%. That's a 3.6% gap and it will likely grow wider as more mail-in ballots are counted. The final margin here will either be comparable to or perhaps even identical to the 3.9% margin by which Obama defeated Romney in 2012, albeit with somewhat different contours. The Democrats have also netted one additional Senate seat (having gained two and lost one in this vote) while the Republicans picked up seven additional House seats.

-Both the Democratic and Republican candidates fared better than in 2016. This appears to be a result of 2016 third party and independent voters reverting back to their previous homes after just one cycle away; hence why this outcome so closely resembles the 2012 results. The Kanye West presidency, shockingly, did not materialize.

-Contradicting the narrative we see from time to time around VGC, in the media, and other spaces, it turns out that Donald Trump isn't actually the candidate of the American working class and the Democrats the favorite of the wealthy elites. According to the exit poll data, as adjusted for the actual demography of voters, 55% of voters with household incomes below $50,000 voted for Joe Biden, compared to 57% of voters making between $50,000 and $100,000 a year and just 42% of those making over $100,000. In other words, blue collar workers were practically just as likely to vote for Biden as the middle-income suburbanite professionals, while the richest 10% of the population -- essentially the capitalist class -- by contrast, were the only social class that favored Trump in their majority. I point this out mainly to defend my class against those who would imply that the American working class is the real problem with this country; the force leading it astray in a racist and anti-democratic direction.

-A major difference between the vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016 and that for Joe Biden this year is, frankly, white men. According to the aforementioned exit poll data, 38% of white men voted for Biden in this election; up quite a bit from 31% of this same group voting for Clinton four years ago. This difference by itself explains almost all of Biden's higher vote share. Considering that Biden and Clinton are essentially the same candidate but just of different sexes, I really cannot help but speculate that Biden's sex worked to his advantage while Hillary Clinton's worked to her disadvantage.

-57% of women voted for Biden versus 42% for Trump. 15-point margin; up from 13 points for Clinton four years ago and 11 points for Obama over Romney in 2012. There is a clear trend toward the Democratic Party here among female voters.

-It may also be notable that despite being blatantly pandered to throughout the campaign (the whole "law and order" stuff and such), Trump lost support among white voters compared to 2016. And conversely, Biden fared somewhat worse among voters of color than Hillary Clinton even after nominating a black running mate. I think it all goes to show that maybe, just maybe, much of the public in general -- black, white, brown, whatever -- is less obsessed with capital-R Race than our media landscape is (be it liberal or conservative) and in fact does rather favor "color-blindness" over 100-item checklists. And also, maybe that "demographic destiny" the Democrats keep talking about is bullshit.

-Trump doubled his vote share among lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender voters compared to 2016 from a measly 14% to 28% while Joe Biden garnered 61% thereof; the lowest share for a Democratic presidential nominee since the demographic was first recorded in 1992. Both with the Republicans actually establishing a proper LGBT outreach organization for the first time and with certain basic issues like marriage equality and adoption rights seeming to be in the rear-view mirror today, it seems that non-heterosexual and transgender voters may become a more competitive demographic going forward. I know I've become more open to voting Republican in the future, under the right circumstances.

-That "Generation X problem" that pollsters kept reporting Biden had ever since being nominated? Didn't materialize. He got 52% of the votes among voters 30 to 44 and essentially tied Trump among voters aged 45 to 64. Meanwhile, Biden improved on Clinton's support among younger voters.

-Also notable: Biden won both moderate and independent voters, not just self-identified liberals and Democrats.

This is just some of the stuff I think is most notable about this election outcome. The bottom line though is that the public has rejected the greatest threat to our democratic system of government we've seen in my lifetime, leaving Trump as only the fourth president in the last century to be defeated in a bid for re-election (the other three having been Herbert Hoover, Jimmy Carter, and George Bush Sr.). That's gotta be embarrassing for the guy in the White House. It would be funny if it hadn't cost so many people their lives and caused me and so many others so much very real trauma just to watch unfold.

Just a quick note to most of your points. No one should use exit polls in this specific election to compare it to any other election. With the massive increase in absentee voting that heavily favors the Democrats any data gained from exit polls is pretty much meaningless because it will always be skewed more towards Republicans.

The exit polls did account for mail in votes by calling people who voted. How accurately they did so is up in the air.

The bigger issue is that as with anything else, there is a margin of error. When the shifts are within 5% or so, I'm not sure how statistically significant the results are. 



Rab said:

I didn't bring it up, I responded to a point made about it. What's the problem with me replying? You think more people seeing it will summon the universe to change the 'simulation' so Trump wins? Common man.

Psychologists use the term “gaslighting” to refer to a specific type of manipulation where the manipulator is trying to get someone else (or a group of people) to question their own reality, memory or perceptions. And it's always a serious problem, according to psychologists

Your a classic gaslighter,  no one should pay you any more attention  

If you're somebody who happens to be open to believing in universal consciousness and that by putting positive or negative energy out there it'll change an outcome, then you very well may believe my response was a problem, on top of the original users post.

'Simulation'. Meaning I for the most part don't think it's a simulation, like how I don't think the universe just bends to people's mental will.

I think you've either misunderstood or I hope you're not trying to discredit me. I've already said multiple times I have no idea if there's any truth to it. If you think it's bogus, then that's fine with me, like it was for others who've seemingly made it clear that's how they view it.



PS1   - ! - We must build a console that can alert our enemies.

PS2  - @- We must build a console that offers online living room gaming.

PS3   - #- We must build a console that’s powerful, social, costs and does everything.

PS4   - $- We must build a console that’s affordable, charges for services, and pumps out exclusives.

PRO  -%-We must build a console that's VR ready, checkerboard upscales, and sells but a fraction of the money printer.

PS5   - ^ -We must build a console that’s a generational cross product, with RT lighting, and price hiking.

PRO  -&- We must build a console that Super Res upscales and continues the cost increases.

Felt like he was addressing twitter/Resetera



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How Western media would cover the U.S. election if it happened in another country :p

"The United States, the former British colony already rocked this year by ethnic conflict and mass protests over extrajudicial killings by police, may finally have a new leader after weeks of political turmoil following a disputed presidential election."



EricHiggin said:

If you're somebody who happens to be open to believing in universal consciousness and that by putting positive or negative energy out there it'll change an outcome, then you very well may believe my response was a problem, on top of the original users post.

'Simulation'. Meaning I for the most part don't think it's a simulation, like how I don't think the universe just bends to people's mental will.

I think you've either misunderstood or I hope you're not trying to discredit me. I've already said multiple times I have no idea if there's any truth to it. If you think it's bogus, then that's fine with me, like it was for others who've seemingly made it clear that's how they view it.

The issue with spreading bullshit is in regards to the health of a thread. If someone repeatedly spreads bad info, they are essentially derailing the thread with bad faith arguments. Same with non-critically reposting propaganda. Saying "I don't know if this is true or not" is just a cop out to justify your own unwillingness to think critically. 



So this is the new story that is making the rounds that the US military raided a business in Germany that is responsible for removing thousands of votes from voting machines in the US.

https://distributednews.com/474016.html?fbclid=IwAR1oEYjR_28Fa1NTEpxDsV6MfnsdVxwacJTvTwugo2WzybrFPPRiuEJyPI4



sundin13 said:
EricHiggin said:

If you're somebody who happens to be open to believing in universal consciousness and that by putting positive or negative energy out there it'll change an outcome, then you very well may believe my response was a problem, on top of the original users post.

'Simulation'. Meaning I for the most part don't think it's a simulation, like how I don't think the universe just bends to people's mental will.

I think you've either misunderstood or I hope you're not trying to discredit me. I've already said multiple times I have no idea if there's any truth to it. If you think it's bogus, then that's fine with me, like it was for others who've seemingly made it clear that's how they view it.

The issue with spreading bullshit is in regards to the health of a thread. If someone repeatedly spreads bad info, they are essentially derailing the thread with bad faith arguments. Same with non-critically reposting propaganda. Saying "I don't know if this is true or not" is just a cop out to justify your own unwillingness to think critically. 

Below is where it started, in which I responded to. Considering in my response, I mentioned I saw the list the day before Trump tweeted it, don't you think it's odd I didn't bother posting anything until the post below, which mentions they don't know where this is coming from? I simply responded to it about the list which corresponds to Trumps tweet, which gives them some context. If they or anyone else think the list is made up nonsense, that's fine, I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong, just explaining the tweet, whether it's BS or not.

vivster said:

Trump is saying via twitter how he won everything by a lot and how there are millions of switched votes. Meanwhile courts are throwing out all of the cases. I haven't seen the rationale for that yet. I'm gonna assume they will just continue to claim they have evidence and ignore that none of their claims actually go through in court so that their followers don't even start to think about why it happens. You could go into a Trump supporter's house and claim that an illegal immigrant stole 10 million dollars out of their safe. They would believe every word despite never having had that much money or a safe. Planting false memories in people's brains is quite efficient when you just tell them over and over again.

In a few months from now when all court cases have failed and Biden is President they will just remember the word fraud.



PS1   - ! - We must build a console that can alert our enemies.

PS2  - @- We must build a console that offers online living room gaming.

PS3   - #- We must build a console that’s powerful, social, costs and does everything.

PS4   - $- We must build a console that’s affordable, charges for services, and pumps out exclusives.

PRO  -%-We must build a console that's VR ready, checkerboard upscales, and sells but a fraction of the money printer.

PS5   - ^ -We must build a console that’s a generational cross product, with RT lighting, and price hiking.

PRO  -&- We must build a console that Super Res upscales and continues the cost increases.

Bandorr said:
Machiavellian said:

So this is the new story that is making the rounds that the US military raided a business in Germany that is responsible for removing thousands of votes from voting machines in the US.

https://distributednews.com/474016.html?fbclid=IwAR1oEYjR_28Fa1NTEpxDsV6MfnsdVxwacJTvTwugo2WzybrFPPRiuEJyPI4

If the US Military raided a Germany business related to Voting machines.. why the hell have we heard nothing?

Even the crazies don't have this trending on twitter.

Its trending trust you me, this report came in today so it will take some time but I am sure it will get a lot of attention.  Currently only the conservatives and right wing sites are blowing this up but lets see if it gets any traction.  I actually have been following the story a bit because I know this will become the new banner flag for most Trump supporters.  Also you have a State Rep in Texas giving props to this story as well.  This should be very interesting.  

Just a little more info on this story, Scytl is the company that provides election night results from the states that use their software for voter registration and so fort.  So I am guessing they are trying to say that Scytl servers in Germany deleted votes for President Trump during communication from the voter machines to their reporting software, or that Scytl used the CIA programs Scorecard to switch votes.