Forums - Politics Discussion - Official 2020 US Presidential Election Thread

NightlyPoe said:

You don't have to explain the history to me.  But both criticisms are valid.  Trump can have it both ways because his presidency has been rather consistently in favor of sentencing reforms and the like while recently he's been strongly against the defunding/abolition movement which Biden has been reluctant to stand in front of.  Again, the two positions are not contradictory.

Do you think Trump should just let Biden off the hook for a bill that's unpopular, that Biden bragged about for 20 years and that Trump took steps to unwind?  And if he does attack Biden on it, does he lose the right to hang the also unpopular defund/abolition movement the left is advancing on Biden's head?

It's like I'm talking to the wall. Again: will a Joe Biden presidency literally end-of-civilization soft on crime or tough on crime or instead too tough on crime in a way that's racist? How is the contradictory nature of these simultaneous attacks flying over your head?



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Jaicee said:

Again: will a Joe Biden presidency literally end-of-civilization soft on crime or tough on crime or instead too tough on crime in a way that's racist? How is the contradictory nature of these simultaneous attacks flying over your head?

If your opponent held a destructive position in the past and refuses to condemn a destructive position in the present, you are allowed to attack both of them, even if they are on the opposite sides of the spectrum.

What about that is so terrible to you?  Do you think Biden should get a pass on one or the other?

It's like I'm talking to the wall.

You made a shallow dig.  The type that late-night has been exploiting for clapter for the last few years to the seals in the audience.

My apologies for maintaining independent thought in the face of your smark.



NightlyPoe said:
Jaicee said:

Again: will a Joe Biden presidency literally end-of-civilization soft on crime or tough on crime or instead too tough on crime in a way that's racist? How is the contradictory nature of these simultaneous attacks flying over your head?

If your opponent held a destructive position in the past and refuses to condemn a destructive position in the present, you are allowed to attack both of them, even if they are on the opposite sides of the spectrum.

What about that is so terrible to you?  Do you think Biden should get a pass on one or the other?

It's like I'm talking to the wall.

You made a shallow dig.  The type that late-night has been exploiting for clapter for the last few years to the seals in the audience.

My apologies for maintaining independent thought in the face of your smark.

Yar, I do shallow digs at Trump. They're fun and ridiculously easy to do.

Anyway, this response just makes it abundantly clear to me that you would literally say ANYTHING to defend Trump regardless of how little sense it makes. You clearly don't care what he stands for or if he even stands for anything anymore.



Jaicee said:

Yar, I do shallow digs at Trump. They're fun and ridiculously easy to do.

All cheap political digs are ridiculously easy to do.

Anyway, this response just makes it abundantly clear to me that you would literally say ANYTHING to defend Trump regardless of how little sense it makes. You clearly don't care what he stands for or if he even stands for anything anymore.

Not even a Trump supporter dude.  At this point just a free agent calling out the BS.




Jaicee said:

Here's something mildly interesting that is presidential: a swath of anti-Trump Republicans are attempting to rally Republican voters to support Joe Biden in this election. It's not too shocking really, as anti-Trump Republicans have always been a small phenom that has existed since the 2016 nominating contest, but in 2016 they didn't endorse a candidate. This time around, it looks like they are. The article points to some evidence that such efforts could make a difference at the margins. For example:

"According to recent New York Times/Siena College polling, 6% of voters in six crucial battleground states who backed Trump in 2016 say there's "not really any chance" they'll back him again this November. Another 2% say they don't support Trump, but they're not sure if they'll vote for his reelection."

It elaborates later on the specific demography that's being primarily argeted by these groups:

"There's a decent chunk of those white college-educated voters who support [GOP] policies, they support the tax cuts, but you know, they wouldn't be crazy about President Trump demanding an apology from Bubba Wallace this week," said McHenry, referring to the Black NASCAR driver Trump singled out on Twitter.

Not once in the last 50 years have college-educated white Americans voted to elect a Democrat president. Yet in the 2017 off-year elections, the 2018 midterm elections, and the 2019 off-year elections, this group voted for Democrats overall. I think this new trend could very well persist into this fall's presidential election specifically because it's being driven by Trump. Every effort to aid this trajectory, including by more moderate Republicans, is welcome as far as I'm concerned!

I've observed Trump to be losing support among all demographic groups over time except for white working class men. That is the only group in this country that's still just as enthused for him today as four years ago. The current moving average of polls has Biden leading by 8.8 percentage points overall.

I do expect that if the Republican party embraces Trumpism in the future even if Donald won't be reelected, then a number of Republican politicians of all levels will switch to either Democrats or Libertarian party out of spite or disgust. A couple already did, but if the trend of the party moving further and further to the right continues, I expect this to accelerate.



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NightlyPoe said:
Jaicee said:

Yar, I do shallow digs at Trump. They're fun and ridiculously easy to do.

All cheap political digs are ridiculously easy to do.

Anyway, this response just makes it abundantly clear to me that you would literally say ANYTHING to defend Trump regardless of how little sense it makes. You clearly don't care what he stands for or if he even stands for anything anymore.

Not even a Trump supporter dude.  At this point just a free agent calling out the BS.


While I'm surprised to learn that you're not a Trump supporter, given the tone of these posts, I just don't see "the BS" here you're calling out.

Anyway, be assured that I will be me and have fun with this stuff! You cannot stop me with your lack of a sense of humor and inability to troll back!



Bofferbrauer2 said:

I do expect that if the Republican party embraces Trumpism in the future even if Donald won't be reelected, then a number of Republican politicians of all levels will switch to either Democrats or Libertarian party out of spite or disgust. A couple already did, but if the trend of the party moving further and further to the right continues, I expect this to accelerate.

Trumpism is pretty much centrally about Trump.  So that doesn't seem likely.



NightlyPoe said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

I do expect that if the Republican party embraces Trumpism in the future even if Donald won't be reelected, then a number of Republican politicians of all levels will switch to either Democrats or Libertarian party out of spite or disgust. A couple already did, but if the trend of the party moving further and further to the right continues, I expect this to accelerate.

Trumpism is pretty much centrally about Trump.  So that doesn't seem likely.

Well, I didn't think I needed to elaborate that any similar type of politics was meant to be included in that statement.



Bofferbrauer2 said:
 

I do expect that if the Republican party embraces Trumpism in the future even if Donald won't be reelected, then a number of Republican politicians of all levels will switch to either Democrats or Libertarian party out of spite or disgust. A couple already did, but if the trend of the party moving further and further to the right continues, I expect this to accelerate.

I agree. This definitely isn't a sustainable path for the Republican Party. BUT I also look at Mike Garcia's 10-point victory in that special election that took place in California the other month and see a model for a post-Trump Republican resurgence that will, in fact, likely happen. Mike Garcia's victory shows that the keys to this Republican resurgence will be...

1) Moderation. Embracing more diverse sorts of candidates and moving back toward neoconservatism instead of the current diehard isolationist nationalism of the Trump brand. That's the only way for Republicans to win back the suburbs that they traditionally have won but are on a losing trajectory with now, under Trump. They can't keep thinking of rural Americans as the only people worth appealing to. And when it comes to candidate diversity, I'm not just talking about race diversity, incidentally. I'm telling you that there will likely be an underappreciated opportunity for Republicans to regain their footing among female voters under a Joe Biden-run White House because the fact of the matter is that the Democrats really will go too far along certain trajectories (like gender identity and maybe even prostitution and these ever so cutesy "Karen" statutes you're starting to see and so forth) for many women.

AND...

2) A New Generation. The Democrats have made inroads in recent years, particularly in those key suburban parts of the country (53% of Americans live in suburban areas, so this isn't some small subset of the population we're talking about!) in no small part owing to the freshness of the faces the Democrats have been able to offer up during the Trump era. Against entrenched politicians, the Democrats have often fielded just ordinary Americans from backgrounds like teacher, nurse, flight attendant, pilot, local TV news reporter, scientist, doctor, small business owner, etc. -- average professionals with no background in politics. Inevitably, that whole dynamic just simply has a populist vibe to it. Mike Garcia's large victory on the Republican side the other month in that special election was rooted in that same basic dynamic. After this fall, I expect that most office-holders in this country will be Democrats. That reality is going to force the Republicans to recruit a new generation of talent, and that will tend to feed into this populist vibe of ordinary people challenging established office-holders I'm talking about. The GOP needs a new generation that's more in-touch with ordinary people's priorities too. I mean when I looked at the headlines Thursday evening and saw that we just added a record 63,400 new coronavirus infections in a single day in this country on Thursday and set a new record daily death toll from covid here in my state of Texas (a Republican stronghold...in theory!) and then saw what Trump and Republican office-holders were tweeting about instead over that same day -- the need to "preserve our history" by keeping Confederate statues up and something about the NBA and China or something -- I couldn't help thinking to myself that it's kind of stunning how completely divorced from the thought processes and priorities of average people the Republican Party has become over the course of the Trump era. They're living in a completely different mental universe that has absolutely nothing to do with what average people are concerned about right now. Their party needs new candidates who are capable of figuring out what real problems are.

These things are likely to happen for the 2022 midterm elections. The truth is that the party of a president almost always loses seats in midterm elections; especially that first one. One can plausibly expect Biden to have a roughly six-month "honeymoon" period where he and the governing Democrats are more popular than not, but the ideological trajectory of things will likely have already begun to shift by the time that Biden assumes office. (This is all assuming Biden wins, obviously!) This is just how the cycle works, and the Republicans can screw it up by not doing the two things I just went through. They're gonna have to learn something from all the defeats of the Trump years to regain their footing. They probably will...in the short run...like for a couple of years...but we'll see!

Last edited by Jaicee - on 11 July 2020

SpokenTruth said:
I don't have control over this....either as a mod or thread creator....but I do wish we would all stop discussing Kanye's POTUS run as though it were legitimate. It's a promotional stunt. Nothing more, nothing less. He's not Ronald Reagan, not Arnold Schwarzenegger, not Jesse Ventura or any other celebrity turned politician.

He is a shit rapper that turned to christian music because he realized he can make more money off dumb fucking christians.