Forums - Politics Discussion - Official 2020 US Presidential Election Thread

coolbeans said:
KLXVER said:
Feels like 2016 all over again. Damned if you do, damned if you dont.

Its up to you guys in the US. The world is at stake. Choose wisely

I think it goes without saying a Yeezus/Candance Owens ticket will win over all US VGChartz members.

But what side is she really on huh,will her rhetoric now be the same in a year and does her flexibility involve honest feelings to fight for what is best for the people or what is best for herself? :P

Well yeah i might need to watch some recent debates and interviews with her to get a better opinion cause it has been some years.



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coolbeans said:
KLXVER said:
Feels like 2016 all over again. Damned if you do, damned if you dont.

Its up to you guys in the US. The world is at stake. Choose wisely

I think it goes without saying a Yeezus/Candance Owens ticket will win over all US VGChartz members.

lol Not sure about that one. I would love to see Larry Elder run though.



coolbeans said:
KLXVER said:
Feels like 2016 all over again. Damned if you do, damned if you dont.

Its up to you guys in the US. The world is at stake. Choose wisely

I think it goes without saying a Yeezus/Candance Owens ticket will win over all US VGChartz members.

He's already named some biblical lifecoach named Michelle Tidball as his veep.



I just want to say Biden has my vote, I don't really like him as a candidate but he's better than the alternative.



Here's something mildly interesting that is presidential: a swath of anti-Trump Republicans are attempting to rally Republican voters to support Joe Biden in this election. It's not too shocking really, as anti-Trump Republicans have always been a small phenom that has existed since the 2016 nominating contest, but in 2016 they didn't endorse a candidate. This time around, it looks like they are. The article points to some evidence that such efforts could make a difference at the margins. For example:

"According to recent New York Times/Siena College polling, 6% of voters in six crucial battleground states who backed Trump in 2016 say there's "not really any chance" they'll back him again this November. Another 2% say they don't support Trump, but they're not sure if they'll vote for his reelection."

It elaborates later on the specific demography that's being primarily argeted by these groups:

"There's a decent chunk of those white college-educated voters who support [GOP] policies, they support the tax cuts, but you know, they wouldn't be crazy about President Trump demanding an apology from Bubba Wallace this week," said McHenry, referring to the Black NASCAR driver Trump singled out on Twitter.

Not once in the last 50 years have college-educated white Americans voted to elect a Democrat president. Yet in the 2017 off-year elections, the 2018 midterm elections, and the 2019 off-year elections, this group voted for Democrats overall. I think this new trend could very well persist into this fall's presidential election specifically because it's being driven by Trump. Every effort to aid this trajectory, including by more moderate Republicans, is welcome as far as I'm concerned!

I've observed Trump to be losing support among all demographic groups over time except for white working class men. That is the only group in this country that's still just as enthused for him today as four years ago. The current moving average of polls has Biden leading by 8.8 percentage points overall.



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The particular combination of attack ads the Trump campaign has put out against Joe Biden lately is pretty amusing. Take your pick:

Will a Joe Biden presidency be so dangerously soft on crime as to destroy American civilization...

...OR will it instead be too tough on crime in a white chauvinist way? #BlackLivesMatter #MyAfricanAmerican #ShitHoleCountries


You have admit it's at least chuckle-worthy that the Trump campaign is running on both of these polar opposite, directly contradictory messages about his rival at the same time. It's the perfect encapsulation of the second-term program Trump is running on: nothing.



Jaicee said:

The particular combination of attack ads the Trump campaign has put out against Joe Biden lately is pretty amusing. Take your pick:

Will a Joe Biden presidency be so dangerously soft on crime as to destroy American civilization...

...OR will it instead be too tough on crime in a white chauvinist way? #BlackLivesMatter #MyAfricanAmerican #ShitHoleCountries


You have admit it's at least chuckle-worthy that the Trump campaign is running on both of these polar opposite, directly contradictory messages about his rival at the same time. It's the perfect encapsulation of the second-term program Trump is running on: nothing.

That’s pretty much Trump in a nutshell.  No cohesive plan or strategy, just keeping throwing stuff out there until something sticks, and then hammer away it... we need a new president...



gergroy said:
Jaicee said:

The particular combination of attack ads the Trump campaign has put out against Joe Biden lately is pretty amusing. Take your pick:

Will a Joe Biden presidency be so dangerously soft on crime as to destroy American civilization...

...OR will it instead be too tough on crime in a white chauvinist way? #BlackLivesMatter #MyAfricanAmerican #ShitHoleCountries


You have admit it's at least chuckle-worthy that the Trump campaign is running on both of these polar opposite, directly contradictory messages about his rival at the same time. It's the perfect encapsulation of the second-term program Trump is running on: nothing.

That’s pretty much Trump in a nutshell.  No cohesive plan or strategy, just keeping throwing stuff out there until something sticks, and then hammer away it... we need a new president...

Thing is, both ads are basically true even if they sound thematically opposite.  Biden did create those bills and he hasn't stood up to the defunding movement.

It's hardly contradictory to be both in favor of criminal sentencing reform and against defunding the police.  A lot of people fall into that category, including Trump who did sign a reform bill on the subject in what was one of the few actually meaningful bills he's managed to sign.

There is more smark than legitimate criticism of Trump's position here.



NightlyPoe said:
gergroy said:

That’s pretty much Trump in a nutshell.  No cohesive plan or strategy, just keeping throwing stuff out there until something sticks, and then hammer away it... we need a new president...

Thing is, both ads are basically true even if they sound thematically opposite.  Biden did create those bills and he hasn't stood up to the defunding movement.

It's hardly contradictory to be both in favor of criminal sentencing reform and against defunding the police.  A lot of people fall into that category, including Trump who did sign a reform bill on the subject in what was one of the few actually meaningful bills he's managed to sign.

There is more smark than legitimate criticism of Trump's position here.

The fact of the matter is that Biden has changed his position on this issue since the 1990s. Most Democrats (who are still Democrats) have too. When the now-infamous crime bill was first enacted back in 1994, the polls showed it was supported mainly by black people because violent crime really was a much more serious problem back then that was disproportionately affecting majority-black communities. Today it is widely recognized that that bill's emphasis on elevating punishments was a serious problem that has been applied in a racist way. There were also several other, earlier Republican-advanced crime bills over the '80s that moved the needle in the same direction and were really more consequential than the 1994 measure we always focus on. There today exists a broad consensus among Democrats, liberals, and progressives that the criminal justice system needs to be overhauled in a way that changes the main focus from punishment to rehabilitation, and which favors more accountability for police officers and whole departments.

ANYWAY, Biden has been inconsistent about whether there should now be funding cuts to police departments. It's clear that his first instinct is to resist that step, but that he is also under much pressure to go there to at least some degree. (He should.) Will there be funding cuts to police departments or simply decriminalizations of various non-violent offenses and moves to enhance restorative justice in the prison system under a President Joe Biden? It's tough to tell. That appears malleable at this moment. What is clear though is that under a President Biden, the needle will move in the general direction of reducing mass incarceration and increased regulation of policing.

The Trump campaign ads want to have it both ways at the same time. They at once want Joe Biden to still be where he was in 1994 and also several leaps beyond where he actually is today at the same time. (The title "Abolished" in the first video, as well as the general content, implies, ludicrously, that Biden actually favors abolishing police departments and just letting crime go unchecked by anything.) You can't have it both ways. Either Biden is surely going to impose a police state upon us or he's going to abolish the state in favor of social chaos. I pointed that out because it's ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as having to explain this right now. Sorry for having a sense of humor about it.



Jaicee said:
NightlyPoe said:

Thing is, both ads are basically true even if they sound thematically opposite.  Biden did create those bills and he hasn't stood up to the defunding movement.

It's hardly contradictory to be both in favor of criminal sentencing reform and against defunding the police.  A lot of people fall into that category, including Trump who did sign a reform bill on the subject in what was one of the few actually meaningful bills he's managed to sign.

There is more smark than legitimate criticism of Trump's position here.

The fact of the matter is that Biden has changed his position on this issue since the 1990s. Most Democrats (who are still Democrats) have too. When the now-infamous crime bill was first enacted back in 1994, the polls showed it was supported mainly by black people because violent crime really was a much more serious problem back then that was disproportionately affecting majority-black communities. Today it is widely recognized that that bill's emphasis on elevating punishments was a serious problem that has been applied in a racist way. There were also several other, earlier Republican-advanced crime bills over the '80s that moved the needle in the same direction and were really more consequential than the 1994 measure we always focus on. There today exists a broad consensus among Democrats, liberals, and progressives that the criminal justice system needs to be overhauled in a way that changes the main focus from punishment to rehabilitation, and which favors more accountability for police officers and whole departments.

ANYWAY, Biden has been inconsistent about whether there should now be funding cuts to police departments. It's clear that his first instinct is to resist that step, but that he is also under much pressure to go there to at least some degree. (He should.) Will there be funding cuts to police departments or simply decriminalizations of various non-violent offenses and moves to enhance restorative justice in the prison system under a President Joe Biden? It's tough to tell. That appears malleable at this moment. What is clear though is that under a President Biden, the needle will move in the general direction of reducing mass incarceration and increased regulation of policing.

The Trump campaign ads want to have it both ways at the same time. They at once want Joe Biden to still be where he was in 1994 and also several leaps beyond where he actually is today at the same time. (The title "Abolished" in the first video, as well as the general content, implies, ludicrously, that Biden actually favors abolishing police departments and just letting crime go unchecked by anything.) You can't have it both ways. Either Biden is surely going to impose a police state upon us or he's going to abolish the state in favor of social chaos. I pointed that out because it's ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as having to explain this right now. Sorry for having a sense of humor about it.

You don't have to explain the history to me.  But both criticisms are valid.  Trump can have it both ways because his presidency has been rather consistently in favor of sentencing reforms and the like while recently he's been strongly against the defunding/abolition movement which Biden has been reluctant to stand in front of.  Again, the two positions are not contradictory.

Do you think Trump should just let Biden off the hook for a bill that's unpopular, that Biden bragged about for 20 years and that Trump took steps to unwind?  And if he does attack Biden on it, does he lose the right to hang the also unpopular defund/abolition movement the left is advancing on Biden's head?