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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - NPD: Percentages of US Switch owners that own PS4/Xbone/both/neither

The_Liquid_Laser on 09 March 2020

DonFerrari said:
curl-6 said:

Just personally, I also liked the PS3 but the PS4 doesn't really appeal to me that much, and I think it's cos the main games I really liked on PS3 were Uncharted 1-3, Resistance 1-3, and Killzone 3.

PS4 doesn't have any Resistance games, and Killzone Shadowfall was just awful, so that leaves Uncharted, and PS4 only has one of those versus 3 on PS3.

Well lost legacy is almost a full game (and good at it) also we have the collection (I platined all 3 again =p )...

But yep not liking PS4 as much as PS3 because of these 3 franchises I can really understand, they were all in control of Sony and your reasoning is spot on.

On the case of Liquid the problem is that basically he is saying true things that I can't handle about Sony needing to change, but the evidences he point are on both 1st party and 3rd party games.

fixed that for you

Otter said:
curl-6 said:

Just personally, I also liked the PS3 but the PS4 doesn't really appeal to me that much, and I think it's cos the main games I really liked on PS3 were Uncharted 1-3, Resistance 1-3, and Killzone 3.

PS4 doesn't have any Resistance games, and Killzone Shadowfall was just awful, so that leaves Uncharted, and PS4 only has one of those versus 3 on PS3.

What has been your favourite games on PS4 other then Uncharted?

Yeah, that's completely fair, sometimes things dont hit the mark but would you put this down to a specific direction from Sony? I mean other than games taking longer to produce. 2/3 of those franchises didn't exist on PS2 (3/3 for most people) but the studios were given freedom to create them on PS3. On PS4 they moved to some new things again (Horizon, Spiderman) and in large we've seen a lot of new IPs published from them. More then anything sonys first parties are defined by contemporary experiences which are ever evolving. Looking at this year alone for example with Dreams, Ghost of Tsushima. Last year Days Gone & Death Stranding. They hit familiar beats with their biggest franchises but they also have a lot of experimentation in a generation. Some of it falls flat like The Order, but I think the approach was the same with PS3 and it will be the same with PS5. 

But I can see why someone might prefer them to go the Nintendo approach and prefee them to put 90% of their efforts into franchises they've already established of theres something particular you loved in their past.

Sony is responsible for their console.  When people complain about Wind Waker and Super Mario Sunshine not being as good as other entries, then that is Nintendo's fault.  If Sony's first party games are as good on PS4 that is Sony's fault.  I liked Sony's first party offerings more on previous consoles than on PS4.  That is definitely their fault.

On top of that Sony is responsible for their 3rd party library, as a whole, too.  When Final Fantasy 7 went to Playstation instead of N64, was that Nintendo's fault?  Yes!  Every console maker has a strategy for attracting third party developers.  This affects both how many third party games they get, but it also affects the type of third party games they get.

So if PS4 doesn't have many games for either me or curl-6, then is that Sony's fault?  Yes!  How can it be anyone else's fault?  Sony is responsible for their own console.



curl-6 bet me that PS5 + X|S sales would reach 56m before year end 2023 and he was right.
My Bet With curl-6

My Threads:
Master Thread, Game of the Year/Decade
Switch Will Be #1 All Time
Zelda Will Outsell Mario (Achieved)
How Much Will MH Rise sell?
My Bet With Metallox

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DonFerrari on 09 March 2020
The_Liquid_Laser said:

DonFerrari said:

Well lost legacy is almost a full game (and good at it) also we have the collection (I platined all 3 again =p )...

But yep not liking PS4 as much as PS3 because of these 3 franchises I can really understand, they were all in control of Sony and your reasoning is spot on.

On the case of Liquid the problem is that basically he is saying true things that I can't handle about Sony needing to change, but the evidences he point are on both 1st party and 3rd party games.

fixed that for you

Otter said:

What has been your favourite games on PS4 other then Uncharted?

Yeah, that's completely fair, sometimes things dont hit the mark but would you put this down to a specific direction from Sony? I mean other than games taking longer to produce. 2/3 of those franchises didn't exist on PS2 (3/3 for most people) but the studios were given freedom to create them on PS3. On PS4 they moved to some new things again (Horizon, Spiderman) and in large we've seen a lot of new IPs published from them. More then anything sonys first parties are defined by contemporary experiences which are ever evolving. Looking at this year alone for example with Dreams, Ghost of Tsushima. Last year Days Gone & Death Stranding. They hit familiar beats with their biggest franchises but they also have a lot of experimentation in a generation. Some of it falls flat like The Order, but I think the approach was the same with PS3 and it will be the same with PS5. 

But I can see why someone might prefer them to go the Nintendo approach and prefee them to put 90% of their efforts into franchises they've already established of theres something particular you loved in their past.

Sony is responsible for their console.  When people complain about Wind Waker and Super Mario Sunshine not being as good as other entries, then that is Nintendo's fault.  If Sony's first party games are as good on PS4 that is Sony's fault.  I liked Sony's first party offerings more on previous consoles than on PS4.  That is definitely their fault.

On top of that Sony is responsible for their 3rd party library, as a whole, too.  When Final Fantasy 7 went to Playstation instead of N64, was that Nintendo's fault?  Yes!  Every console maker has a strategy for attracting third party developers.  This affects both how many third party games they get, but it also affects the type of third party games they get.

So if PS4 doesn't have many games for either me or curl-6, then is that Sony's fault?  Yes!  How can it be anyone else's fault?  Sony is responsible for their own console.

Sure for the games curl wanted Sony is certainly at fault with him.

Sony didn't loose games to Xbox or Switch, they didn't became exclusives, they weren't made. Sony can't obligate devs to make specific games (sure they can entice), and also Sony have sponsored some games on third parties. But Sony can't hire devs to make IPs of other companies. So your complain was completely irrelevant. You may not like PS4 and that is perfectly fine, but that had nothing to do with any changes Sony made or should do for PS5.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

curl-6 on 09 March 2020

To be fair, I feel kinda the same way about Xbox this gen too, back in 2012-2013 I always assumed I'd end up getting an Xbone at some point just cos I liked the 360 so much, but games like Halo 5 and Gears 4 ended up looking nowhere near as interesting or appealing to me as their 360 predecessors.

I've also kinda gone off AAA third party games too, with a few excellent exceptions the formula feels a bit stale to me now, they don't seem to have changed much since about 2009 except in ways I don't like, like adding predatory monetisation tactics such as loot boxes and microtransactions.

Thankfully the 360 still got a fair few of the early good ones like Evil Within, MGS5, Wolfenstein the New Order, etc.



The_Liquid_Laser on 10 March 2020
DonFerrari said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

fixed that for you

Sony is responsible for their console.  When people complain about Wind Waker and Super Mario Sunshine not being as good as other entries, then that is Nintendo's fault.  If Sony's first party games are as good on PS4 that is Sony's fault.  I liked Sony's first party offerings more on previous consoles than on PS4.  That is definitely their fault.

On top of that Sony is responsible for their 3rd party library, as a whole, too.  When Final Fantasy 7 went to Playstation instead of N64, was that Nintendo's fault?  Yes!  Every console maker has a strategy for attracting third party developers.  This affects both how many third party games they get, but it also affects the type of third party games they get.

So if PS4 doesn't have many games for either me or curl-6, then is that Sony's fault?  Yes!  How can it be anyone else's fault?  Sony is responsible for their own console.

Sure for the games curl wanted Sony is certainly at fault with him.

Sony didn't loose games to Xbox or Switch, they didn't became exclusives, they weren't made. Sony can't obligate devs to make specific games (sure they can entice), and also Sony have sponsored some games on third parties. But Sony can't hire devs to make IPs of other companies. So your complain was completely irrelevant. You may not like PS4 and that is perfectly fine, but that had nothing to do with any changes Sony made or should do for PS5.

As I said, here are some Sony published games that I have liked from past Playstation systems:
Legend of Dragoon
Okage
Ico
Shadow of the Colossus
Demon's Souls

They aren't making games like any of these anymore.  That is most definitely their fault.  On top of that, the common theme in all of these games is that they are made by Japanese developers.  Sometimes all Sony needs to do is publish enough games from Japanese studios and eventually I will find one I am happy with. But currently Sony is focusing more and more on their Western studios. All of this is 100% undeniably their fault.

On top of that it is Sony's job to identify holes in their third party line-up and make games to compensate for that.  Nintendo, for a long time just let themselves have a "Final Fantasy-shaped" hole.  Eventually they started publishing Xenoblade Chronicles in order to compensate for that.  While I don't like XC as much as I liked the old Final Fantasies, I do appreciate the effort.  Then they made a deal with Square-Enix to bring Octopath Traveler, and this time they hit the mark with me.  Even Sony did this to some degree by making a Spider-Man game.  They just haven't done anything to deal with their own Final Fantasy hole, because Final Fantasy sucks now.  Currently Nintendo is doing a better job, IMO, to compensate for the holes they have in their game library.  Some games are for me, and some games aren't, but I just need enough games that are actually for me, whether it be first or third party games.

20 years ago, Sony made games for me and Nintendo didn't.  Now Nintendo makes games for me and Sony doesn't.  That's why, if Sony doesn't change their direction, then they are going to lose me as a customer.  Obviously I'll have to wait and see what games are on the PS5.  But if it's just more of what appeared on the PS4, then no thanks.



curl-6 bet me that PS5 + X|S sales would reach 56m before year end 2023 and he was right.
My Bet With curl-6

My Threads:
Master Thread, Game of the Year/Decade
Switch Will Be #1 All Time
Zelda Will Outsell Mario (Achieved)
How Much Will MH Rise sell?
My Bet With Metallox

Otter on 10 March 2020
The_Liquid_Laser said:

DonFerrari said:

Well lost legacy is almost a full game (and good at it) also we have the collection (I platined all 3 again =p )...

But yep not liking PS4 as much as PS3 because of these 3 franchises I can really understand, they were all in control of Sony and your reasoning is spot on.

On the case of Liquid the problem is that basically he is saying true things that I can't handle about Sony needing to change, but the evidences he point are on both 1st party and 3rd party games.

fixed that for you

Otter said:

What has been your favourite games on PS4 other then Uncharted?

Yeah, that's completely fair, sometimes things dont hit the mark but would you put this down to a specific direction from Sony? I mean other than games taking longer to produce. 2/3 of those franchises didn't exist on PS2 (3/3 for most people) but the studios were given freedom to create them on PS3. On PS4 they moved to some new things again (Horizon, Spiderman) and in large we've seen a lot of new IPs published from them. More then anything sonys first parties are defined by contemporary experiences which are ever evolving. Looking at this year alone for example with Dreams, Ghost of Tsushima. Last year Days Gone & Death Stranding. They hit familiar beats with their biggest franchises but they also have a lot of experimentation in a generation. Some of it falls flat like The Order, but I think the approach was the same with PS3 and it will be the same with PS5. 

But I can see why someone might prefer them to go the Nintendo approach and prefee them to put 90% of their efforts into franchises they've already established of theres something particular you loved in their past.

Sony is responsible for their console.  When people complain about Wind Waker and Super Mario Sunshine not being as good as other entries, then that is Nintendo's fault.  If Sony's first party games are as good on PS4 that is Sony's fault.  I liked Sony's first party offerings more on previous consoles than on PS4.  That is definitely their fault.

On top of that Sony is responsible for their 3rd party library, as a whole, too.  When Final Fantasy 7 went to Playstation instead of N64, was that Nintendo's fault?  Yes!  Every console maker has a strategy for attracting third party developers.  This affects both how many third party games they get, but it also affects the type of third party games they get.

So if PS4 doesn't have many games for either me or curl-6, then is that Sony's fault?  Yes!  How can it be anyone else's fault?  Sony is responsible for their own console.

The discussion was centered around whether it was something constructive you could see sony correcting, since you spoke about them "changing". You say your favourite game was demon Souls on PS3, sony launch Bloodborne on PS4 pretty early on to even higher critical reception then demon souls. That doesn't mean you have to like it, maybe you like medevil settings but hate gothic. IDK, but I was simply trying to gauge what you meant when you said "if Sony doesn't change then I probably won't like PS5 either."

In your initial response, the only thing you described software wise between PS3/PS4 that sony was doing was the appearance of new souls games. Everything else was unrelated (i.e no Shadow of the Colosus quality sequel on PS4, but the developers skipped the PS3 altogether). Or no RPGs made by Sony Interactive but their last RPG comparable to Legend of Dragoon was White Knights in 2008 on the PS3 which got horrible reviews. I'm not sure if you played it but given that length of time, if you have a problem with the lack of Sony made RPGs on PS4, surely the same applies to PS3? Or what square are doing with FFVII, did you love what they did during the PS3 years with FFXIII? BTW I don't care to continue the discussion, just trying to clarify why I was confused. 


Meanwhile Curl-6 made it very clear what PS3 had that they see lacking on PS4. 



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Otter on 10 March 2020
Nu-13 said:
Pyro as Bill said:

Exactly. Why is this only working for retro/indie/AA games? Why would people choose the more expensive 720p version of a game instead of the 1080p-4K version on PS4/PC?

-The most successful platform for Two Point Hospital was Nintendo Switch, with 55% of boxed sales coming on Nintendo's hybrid platform. 34% of sales were on PS4, with 12% on Xbox One.
-Also new this week is Darksiders Genesis at No.11. THQ Nordic's spin-off action game sold best on PS4, representing 51% of sales, ahead of Switch (28%) and Xbox One (21%).
-Next on the list was Yooka-Laylee and the Impossible Lair, from Team17 and Playtonicm, which comes in at No.31. 56% of sales came on Nintendo Switch, with 30% on PS4 and the rest coming on Xbox One."

Because PS4/XB are overshooting. The speed/graphics bump is negligible and doesn't trump the advantages of the more expensive portable version. In the same way that the convenience of consoles trumps PC gaming for lots of people.

The tipping point is different for different people but it's unquestionable that Nintendo is becoming more of a direct competitor. Is it inconceivable to see how at some point, the majority of gamers will take 1080p and portablility over 4K. Or 4K + portability over 8K. Or 8K + portability over 16K etc etc.

I'm of the opinion that it was RTS sluts and not Graphics whores that pushed PC gaming for the past 30 years and with it's decline, the lack of Crysises, the failure of 3D monitors and VR, the gaming market is being overshot again and is ripe for a little disruption.

It's working for nearly every game that ACTUALLY releases on switch. Those are more affected because the market made it clear that they'd rather buy a game on the switch if runs the same as other platforms.

Taking into context what he said, the meaningful thing would be to compare the sale of big budget games on the Switch to the PS4. Unfortunately there are not many which release at the same time, so you cannot really critique his argument. To date all of the games that have performed great on the Switch have been indie/low budget games or toony platformers. So far big selling games on PS4 have not performed great on Switch compared to PS4, some that come to mind.

Fifa,
MortalKombat
DragonBallZ

Maybe AAA games on Switch can outsell their PS4 counterparts but I don't think there are many valid examples. It would have been interesting to see how Outer Worlds and Doom compared but the Switch versions don't have release dates for those titles. It pretty logical to assume though that any title that undergoes signifcant sacrifice will perform worse sales wise then games which land on Switch with very little compromise.  



Otter on 10 March 2020
curl-6 said:

To be fair, I feel kinda the same way about Xbox this gen too, back in 2012-2013 I always assumed I'd end up getting an Xbone at some point just cos I liked the 360 so much, but games like Halo 5 and Gears 4 ended up looking nowhere near as interesting or appealing to me as their 360 predecessors.

I've also kinda gone off AAA third party games too, with a few excellent exceptions the formula feels a bit stale to me now, they don't seem to have changed much since about 2009 except in ways I don't like, like adding predatory monetisation tactics such as loot boxes and microtransactions.

Thankfully the 360 still got a fair few of the early good ones like Evil Within, MGS5, Wolfenstein the New Order, etc.

I was super big on 360 too but skipped X1. Primarily because the 360 in the early years for me was defined by top notch wastern RPGs that were timed exclusive or not available on Playstation Bioshock/Masseffect/Fable 2, Banjo Kazooie remasters, superior versions of 3rd party games like Oblivion and of course Halo local multiplayer. Xbox One literally lost all of this lmao.

No more fable, no halo local player, no platforming or Banjo, no Bioware exclusivity (bioware have sunken anyway) & worse versions of third party titles. 

I'm happy to see that they are trying to fix this now, buying more studios centred on Single player/action/RPGs & bringing Halo local multiplayer back. If they bring back fable & reboot Banjo I would be 100% sold. 



Nu-13 on 10 March 2020
Otter said:
Nu-13 said:

It's working for nearly every game that ACTUALLY releases on switch. Those are more affected because the market made it clear that they'd rather buy a game on the switch if runs the same as other platforms.

Taking into context what he said, the meaningful thing would be to compare the sale of big budget games on the Switch to the PS4. Unfortunately there are not many which release at the same time, so you cannot really critique his argument. To date all of the games that have performed great on the Switch have been indie/low budget games or toony platformers. So far big selling games on PS4 have not performed great on Switch compared to PS4, some that come to mind.

Fifa,
MortalKombat
DragonBallZ

Maybe AAA games on Switch can outsell their PS4 counterparts but I don't think there are many valid examples. It would have been interesting to see how Outer Worlds and Doom compared but the Switch versions don't have release dates for those titles. It pretty logical to assume though that any title that undergoes signifcant sacrifice will perform worse sales wise then games which land on Switch with very little compromise.  

Of course I can and precisely because of that. Can't compare what isn't there.



src on 10 March 2020

70% of SW owners have a PS4 or XB1. Probably even more if PC is included. Definitely highlights how SW is a secondary console and why many pubs aren't jumping over hoops to publish their games on it when there's such overlap.



curl-6 on 10 March 2020
Otter said:
curl-6 said:

To be fair, I feel kinda the same way about Xbox this gen too, back in 2012-2013 I always assumed I'd end up getting an Xbone at some point just cos I liked the 360 so much, but games like Halo 5 and Gears 4 ended up looking nowhere near as interesting or appealing to me as their 360 predecessors.

I've also kinda gone off AAA third party games too, with a few excellent exceptions the formula feels a bit stale to me now, they don't seem to have changed much since about 2009 except in ways I don't like, like adding predatory monetisation tactics such as loot boxes and microtransactions.

Thankfully the 360 still got a fair few of the early good ones like Evil Within, MGS5, Wolfenstein the New Order, etc.

I was super big on 360 too but skipped X1. Primarily because the 360 in the early years for me was defined by top notch wastern RPGs that were timed exclusive or not available on Playstation Bioshock/Masseffect/Fable 2, Banjo Kazooie remasters, superior versions of 3rd party games like Oblivion and of course Halo local multiplayer. Xbox One literally lost all of this lmao.

No more fable, no halo local player, no platforming or Banjo, no Bioware exclusivity (bioware have sunken anyway) & worse versions of third party titles. 

I'm happy to see that they are trying to fix this now, buying more studios centred on Single player/action/RPGs & bringing Halo local multiplayer back. If they bring back fable & reboot Banjo I would be 100% sold. 

Yeah nearly always having the better version of multiplatform games was a big factor in me getting a 360 also. I ended up getting a PS3 anyway further down the line, but my 360 collection was a lot larger than my PS3 collection as the latter was mostly for exclusives whereas I grabbed the vast majority of my multiplats on 360.

Hellblade 2 does have me interested in Xbox Series X, I must admit; I did absolutely love the original Hellblade.